[phinfan27615]

I won't mention the poster's name, but I was playing omaha earlier and had to leave. Game started with more people but got down to h2h. I was 20 pts from rolling so during a hand i asked if the poster wanted to do 20 points in the dark on the next hand (we both had over 100 pts in chips) and he agreed. next hand im small blind so i raise to 20 and he shoves all in so i folded. I know 20 points isn't much and am not sweating it but I feel like it was very unethical on their part. Am a sucker for believing them or was that a scam? 50/50? Let me know what you guys think

[ArunSh]

Well, not sure what you were doing with that phinfan. Was your expectation that you raise to 20 preflop, he calls, then you check it down? You know that is exactly flipping, which is against the rules for sure so you ought not to be saying that that's what you wanted to do

If their interpretation was that it would just be a raise to 20 blind and then the hand plays out normally (which seems odd but I guess not impossible), then maybe it just played out how they felt it would after the initial raise in their view. And again, agreeing that one person would raise to 20 no matter what and then the hand would play out normally is quite strange, but I guess technically not against the rules as raising to 20, calling, then checking it down would be.

Either way, I wasn't at the table to see the exact discussion, perhaps the two of you just had a different view on what the agreement was - they could certainly claim that knowing flipping was illegal they didn't agree to what you seemed to want at all. Or perhaps they were using it to freeroll you, raise allin if their hand was strong, fold if it wasn't and claim that they didn't just call and check it down knowing that that's against the rules. Hard to say!

Might want to name who it is, or whoever it is might want to come give their side.

[bonzaii]

classic example of reneging. Who was it?

[bonzaii]

I don't really get the banning of flipping. So if two bozos or crazy people decide to just move allin every hand or basically everyhand regardless of how many people are playing with no prior agreement, than how is that against the rules? Are you required to play a certain way?

[ArunSh]

I don't really get the banning of flipping. So if two bozos or crazy people decide to just move allin every hand or basically everyhand regardless of how many people are playing with no prior agreement, than how is that against the rules? Are you required to play a certain way?

The key phrase is "no prior agreement". Flipping inherently requires a prior agreement between the two parties, and that's what is against the rules. If someone (or multiple people) want to move allin every hand preflop without any prior discussion/agreement with each other or others who might be at the table, they absolutely can.

[phinfan27615]

I was not flipping, playing straight up and then offered to do one hand dark for 20 pts. flipping to my understanding would be agreeing to purposely alternate hands where u put points in then fold to other player. I had to go and offered to do one hand dark for 20 pts then he agreed and shoved after i put in 20

[phinfan27615]

agreeing to go in one hand for a certain amount and check it down is not flipping to my knowledge, since it would not be purposely giving and receiving points to get the freeroll for both

[JoeCool20]

I was not flipping, playing straight up and then offered to do one hand dark for 20 pts. flipping to my understanding would be agreeing to purposely alternate hands where u put points in then fold to other player. I had to go and offered to do one hand dark for 20 pts then he agreed and shoved after i put in 20

It all depends on how you worded the question my friend.


If you said "Would you like to put $20 in and let it go and see who wins?" And then he answered "Yes" and then he


raised all in, then he's a dick. But there is nothing you can do about him being a dick, so.....

[ArunSh]

Going dark for twenty points or however many while having an agreement to check it down afterwards is EXACTLY what flipping is. Those of us (myself included) who used to flip back when it was legal - that was exactly the way we flipped, and precisely what they disallowed. Purposely giving/receiving points is different (evening up after flipping essentially), and that was actually not ever legal.

So, quite sure what you are saying is incorrect phin, having an agreement to bet/call a certain amount preflop and to check it down afterwards is exactly what they said is not allowed. SBR Drew or whoever, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[JoeCool20]

Well, not sure what you were doing with that phinfan.
If their interpretation was that it...
Either way, I wasn't at the table to see the exact discussion, Hard to say!
Might want to name who it is, or whoever it is might want to come give their side.

LOL I'm not going to "Keep on" with this Arunsh dude, because I hope that one day he "comes around" and sees

how ridiculous he is being to me about it, but in reply to your post Arunsh is saying things like he is "not sure"

what the other person's interpretation is, so it is "hard to say."

But yet me and Arunsh played a hand of poker and afterward I posted the NOTHING BUT FACTUAL words:

"LOL You went all in on a draw?" and he went batshit crazy "assuming" that I meant it was a "bad" or "foolish"

play by him WHEN I NEVER SAID ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT! So in one post (this one) he says he is not going

to "assume" anything, but yet he went batshit crazy on me and DID "assume" what he thought I meant!

My gosh I hope the dude "comes around" and sees what he has done with that ridiculous and TOTALLY wrong

"assuming" crap about what he "thought" I meant, WHEN I NEVER SAID IT!

My gosh do you think I want somebody to dislike me because they "assumed" something TOTALLY WRONG

about me, and then they get on here TWO FUKIN DAYS LATER and say they don't want to "assume" anything?

Good gosh! I don't want that!

[JoeCool20]

LOL arunsh just got up and left the poker table when I sat down at it.

Do you think I am going to "assume" that he left because I sat down? Of course not! It is foolish to assume things!

[JoeCool20]

I posted "Hey y'all if I post something in the chat after a hand like "LOL you called that?" or something

Then PLEASE don't "assume" that I meant you played the hand "wrong" or "foolish"!!

This is SBR poker for pizza and points for shits sake!"

[phinfan27615]

Going dark for twenty points or however many while having an agreement to check it down afterwards is EXACTLY what flipping is. Those of us (myself included) who used to flip back when it was legal - that was exactly the way we flipped, and precisely what they disallowed. Purposely giving/receiving points is different (evening up after flipping essentially), and that was actually not ever legal.


So, quite sure what you are saying is incorrect phin, having an agreement to bet/call a certain amount preflop and to check it down afterwards is exactly what they said is not allowed. SBR Drew or whoever, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Not trying to argue with you on this but i checked with optional today and he confirmed this was not considered flipping. Flipping requires a predetermined outcome that the players in question will "make it right" afterwards and are just trying to roll their points off each other and stay even. Players are allowed to agree to wager a certain amount "dark" and check it down and see who wins which is what was supposed to happen in my case

[ArunSh]

Not trying to argue with you on this but i checked with optional today and he confirmed this was not considered flipping. Flipping requires a predetermined outcome that the players in question will "make it right" afterwards and are just trying to roll their points off each other and stay even. Players are allowed to agree to wager a certain amount "dark" and check it down and see who wins which is what was supposed to happen in my case

Guess we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But I'd be shocked if this were true. As I mentioned, this was the way me and others flipped back when it was allowed - we were explicitly told that having an agreement to "even out" things later was against the rules as you said, but that it was (at that time) ok to just flip for however many points we wanted, understanding that some days variance will have you win a bunch or lose a bunch (as happened to me many times, on both ends!). When they disallowed flipping, pretty certain what are you saying was most definitely disallowed. Without question many folks who used to flip in this way would still do so if we had not been explicitly told not to.

Again, we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But if what you are saying is true, then it really doesn't make sense for SBR to have "disallowed" flipping since the practice of "evening out" was always against the rules so if the approach you mention is still ok, then their flipping ban didn't disallow anything that wasn't already against the rules.

[JoeCool20]

Not trying to argue with you on this but i checked with optional today and he confirmed this was not considered flipping. Flipping requires a predetermined outcome that the players in question will "make it right" afterwards and are just trying to roll their points off each other and stay even. Players are allowed to agree to wager a certain amount "dark" and check it down and see who wins which is what was supposed to happen in my case

Guess we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But I'd be shocked if this were true. As I mentioned, this was the way me and others flipped back when it was allowed - we were explicitly told that having an agreement to "even out" things later was against the rules as you said, but that it was (at that time) ok to just flip for however many points we wanted, understanding that some days variance will have you win a bunch or lose a bunch (as happened to me many times, on both ends!). When they disallowed flipping, pretty certain what are you saying was most definitely disallowed. Without question many folks who used to flip in this way would still do so if we had not been explicitly told not to.

Again, we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But if what you are saying is true, then it really doesn't make sense for SBR to have "disallowed" flipping since the practice of "evening out" was always against the rules so if the approach you mention is still ok, then their flipping ban didn't disallow anything that wasn't already against the rules.

LOL Phin, Like you said, saying in the chat "lets play this hand for $20" is not "flipping" anything!

SBR Drew may very well say he doesn't want you doing that, but it isn't "flipping."

It is playing the hand for $20 and whoever wins the hand wins $20! That isn't "evening out" anything!

If you won 10 in a row you'd win $200 and the other guy would lose $200! How the hell is that "flipping" anything?!!

Flipping is like you said, when you tell somebody:

"I'll bet $50, and you call and then I'll fold, and then you bet $50 and I'll call and you fold. Until we roll our points over."

Because you are simply "flipping" the money back and forth with no risk! That is what they don't want people to do.


And you did not do that.

[bobbywaves]

I won't mention the poster's name

Why are you scared to mention the poster's name?

[JoeCool20]

Not trying to argue with you on this.

LOL Lucky you phin! If Arunsh DID want "argue" with you, then he might be arguing with you over what he "assumed"


that you meant when you never really said it!! That's what the dude did to me!


And I KNOW it is the toughest thing on earth for some people to apologize and admit wrong,


But I SWEAR I think one day Arunsh is going to say to me:


"JoeCool, I'm sorry that I 'assumed' that you meant something that you didn't mean."

[phinfan27615]

Why are you scared to mention the poster's name?

no need to put anyone on blast, not my style

[phinfan27615]

Guess we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But I'd be shocked if this were true. As I mentioned, this was the way me and others flipped back when it was allowed - we were explicitly told that having an agreement to "even out" things later was against the rules as you said, but that it was (at that time) ok to just flip for however many points we wanted, understanding that some days variance will have you win a bunch or lose a bunch (as happened to me many times, on both ends!). When they disallowed flipping, pretty certain what are you saying was most definitely disallowed. Without question many folks who used to flip in this way would still do so if we had not been explicitly told not to.

Again, we'll wait to see what Drew and others say on Monday. But if what you are saying is true, then it really doesn't make sense for SBR to have "disallowed" flipping since the practice of "evening out" was always against the rules so if the approach you mention is still ok, then their flipping ban didn't disallow anything that wasn't already against the rules.

Yeah, if that's the case then I'm willing to accept whatever the standard punishment is. Guess we'll just have to wait and see

[ArunSh]

Yeah, if that's the case then I'm willing to accept whatever the standard punishment is. Guess we'll just have to wait and see

Really don't think any punishment is warranted, clearly there is some confusion on your end, and it wasn't anything malicious. Just if what I've said is true, just a warning not to do that in the future seems like it'd be quite enough.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Really don't think any punishment is warranted, clearly there is some confusion on your end, and it wasn't anything malicious. Just if what I've said is true, just a warning not to do that in the future seems like it'd be quite enough.

agreed

[JoeCool20]

Yeah, if that's the case then I'm willing to accept whatever the standard punishment is. Guess we'll just have to wait and see

Really don't think any punishment is warranted, clearly there is some confusion on your end, and it wasn't anything malicious. Just if what I've said is true, just a warning not to do that in the future seems like it'd be quite enough.

I've never heard that you couldn't tell somebody:

"I have one more hand and I'm leaving, Let's bet $20 apiece and see who wins."

How can that be considered violating anything? It's certainly not the definition of "flipping."

"Flipping" is when you bet and then fold to each other back and forth until your rollover is completed.

Even if they say it violates something, you can say you didn't do it because he raised and you folded!

[JoeCool20]

LOL Then Arunsh got up and left AGAIN when I sat down at the poker table!

I don't "Assume" things, because of how stupid it is, but is he REALLY thinking to himself:

"There's the guy that I 'wrongly assumed' something that he NEVER said, so instead of apologizing and admitting that I

'wrongly assumed" something, I'm going to get up from the table!" LOL Surely not y'all!

[cincinnatikid513]

[bobbywaves]

no need to put anyone on blast

There's a need to put him on blast, for unethically shoving instead of calling the agreed 20.

[bobbywaves]

"Flipping" is when you bet and then fold to each other back and forth until your rollover is completed.

Joe, do you ever state the truth?

You're wrong again, there's no folding in flipping.

[reigle9]

I vote whatever the opposite of Joe

[pablo222]

I vote whatever the opposite of Joe

Always the +EV play.

[thechaoz]

I don't really get the banning of flipping. So if two bozos or crazy people decide to just move allin every hand or basically everyhand regardless of how many people are playing with no prior agreement, than how is that against the rules? Are you required to play a certain way?

I'm suprised at the amount of posters that have told me no and there is a ban. I'll say it one last time, as I've played poker for 25 years.

YOU CAN'T BAN FLIPPING IN POKER.

Let's ban passing in Nascar, chipping in Golf, and dunking in basketball too.

Apparently there is some "rule" I'm not aware of? I took a year off. Maybe I missed a thread where sbr tries to ban a fundamental part of the game? lol.

Everyone is afraid of getting banned.

I'll square up with the F=ggot who would report two grown ass mess flipping their points. Straight up f=ck them up.

[eaglesfan371]

If they’re willing to renege on the equivalent of $0.75 dark, that’s pathetic and should be outed.

[Optional]

Technically not the right thing to do at a poker table.

But don't worry. Not anything SBR would be concerned about.

Players will police you if you do it regularly, or at a critical moment.

[fried cheese]

"Flipping" is when you bet and then fold to each other back and forth until your rollover is completed.

looks like you are just assuming what flipping is now joe. flipping refers to a coin flip. it is a bet on a 50/50 chance. here are some 100k and 200k flips.

[reigle9]

Always the +EV play.

That's as good as booking -115. You really can't lose

[JoeCool20]

looks like you are just assuming what flipping is now joe. flipping refers to a coin flip. it is a bet on a 50/50 chance. here are some 100k and 200k flips.

LOL Try again! Remember buddy, we are talking about SBR poker for pizza points! Not cash games!

I was talking about "flipping" hands back and forth for the purpose of rolling over your SBR Poker for pizza points.




Originally Posted by JoeCool20
"Flipping" is when you bet and then fold to each other back and forth until your rollover is completed.

[JoeCool20]

Joe, do you ever state the truth?

You're wrong again, there's no folding in flipping.

LOL It would make you look a lot less like an idiot dumbass if you actually READ what I said before you replied!


I'm not talking about cash games! Neither is the original post!


I know what flipping is in a cash game. And who could say that was "illegal" to do? I hope nobody!


Since we are talking about SBR poker for points that you have to ROLLOVER 3X, then "flipping" is when you just


alternate betting and folding until you both have your points rolled over and nobody has lost a dime. LIKE I SAID!


Originally Posted by JoeCool20"Flipping" is when you bet and then fold to each other back and forth until your rollover is completed.