Top names usually are @ the last table
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1st and Ten
Not to be rude but if all you all can't understand this well I guess God must have put a stuper on you.END OF DISSCUSSION
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this is probably the stupidest thread ive ever seen
pauly - youre wrong, plain and simple...stop being so close-minded...but i know how it is for you, since i was a donk at one pointComment -
A professional poker player is someone who makes their primary living off poker or poker-related activities. You are claiming there aren't people who does this?
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Vincepcion
NO COMMENT.
wal66
I think being unlucky is a larger factor than being lucky. I thought it was just me being nagetive after a prolonged bad run so I actually started tracking it. I wen through a 6 month period prior to football season where I was no less than 55% in better than 85% of the hands I was involved in and won 8% of the time. I waited for my spots. I played my hands aggressively I gave every tell I could to let the other players know they were beat every step of the way but it didn't matter. I got drawn out on. It wasn't one player or one table or one day. The only constant involved was me. So in my world unlucky outweighs lucky all the time.Comment -
Hotdiggity11
a very lucky&skilled poker players and nothing more but if you take the ingredient luck away from this combination you have an addict COMPULSIVE GAMBLER but if just take the skill away you will have a lucky jack ass that will develop skill eventually and become your so called PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER.Comment -
who's nextComment -
Just ignore the thread, people make cogent arguments and Pauly is a parrot who can only say "LUCK."
It would be easier to win an argument against a table, this guy seriously doesn't get it.Originally posted by Dark HorseComment -
DrStale
C'mon you can do better than that I hope
vyomguy
Poker is 80% luck and 20% skill. I have seen top pros play...and they play real bad when they are not running good. I have seen howard lederer make so many mistakes.
FYI, I have been a successful poker player and I don't mind admitting that I have been lucky. Very few successful poker players admit it...but they know it.
On the other hand you cant be really bad and expect to win purely on luck. You do need that 20% skill required...like reading people, analysing hands, calculating outs and odds etc...
If I had to choose between risking my money on poker versus sports betting, I would choose sports betting as there is very less amount of luck involved....and you can consistently win money. Poker has lot of luck which involves lot of big swings in terms of money...one day you can be up by 10k and the other day down by 20k.
The most important difference I see between the poker and sports betting is the TILT FACTOR. In poker you can go on tilt easily and loose all of your money in few hands. In sports betting, there might be some form of tilt..but not to the extent of poker.
So, in conclusion..poker is more than 80% luck...no doubt about it. There is some level of skill level involved. But can you rely on poker for consistently making money over long term...HELL NO...there are major swings in poker all the time. I have seen gus hansen loose 2 million in 2 days and win back the same money in 1 day...and he is one of the biggest donks out there...anyone who has seen him play would agree. And he is a so called pro.Comment -
Your original idea that professionalism has to be separate from luck is blatantly false. All gambling has something to do with luck.
I will agree with you that some of the more famous, successful poker players are such because they've had more than their fair share of good luck at key times. However, there are thousands of small time grinders and various pros who support themselves through poker alone. And those same people are likely to continue to win going forward.bird bird da bird's da wordComment -
Poker is a skill game with luck. Just like any other sports, there is always luck in the formula. The lucky 3 pointer from half court to win the game. The pass that denver threw which bounced off someones helmet and landed in the Stockley's hand to win to game. The Steelers losing to the Browns/Chiefs/Raiders one of the worst teams in the league. Shoot there was an NBA game a few weeks back where the lakers made 5 x 3 pointers in a row. Poker has the same deal such as AA vs KK and the player with KK makes a huge laydown. Nut flush verus rivered full house and the flush laying his hand down because he made a good read. Oh my favorite Phil Hellmouth AK vs 55, Phil makes a huge all in lay down verus the guy flopping a set vs top pair with a rainbow flop/turn. Its also vice versa where the better hand mucks his hand. Poker and any other sports are all the same skill and luck but in my opinion poker is 75% skill 25% luck not 50/50.
In poker you can get lucky but the odds are going to be against you verus the skilled player, its called patients. Name one player that has completely no clue how to play poker and win multiple tournments? I can't think of any. A lucky player can always get the best hand but how you "play it" matters. Makings reads...setting traps...making plays are all huge factors in playing poker. How does Phil Ivey win 2 braclets and make the final table out of 6k + during the 2009 wsop. A total of 7 bracelets...he must be some lucky sob.
I myself play poker and i admit i get lucky at times. But majority of my winnings I outplayed ppl. I made ppl fold the best hand in a cash game to scoop that $200 dollar pot. I made huge lay downs that would of knocked me out of a tournment.
thats my 2 cents.Comment -
reno cool DrStale plzkthx
My point for the last time is you can not be successful in poker without a great deal of luck involved!
I'm not saying you can not be sucessful at it but just see it for what it is lucky................................... !
The key ingredient. As for other arguments about other forms of gambling start your own thread on that subject.THIS THREAD IS ON POKER!
PS YOU CAN LIVE WITH BEING LABELED AS LUCKY CAN'T YOU?Comment -
"And you can not be a successful in poker without a great deal of SKILLS". I have a good feeling that you were not successful in poker therefore blame the lack of luck you had.
I want you to explain to me how these big names make it in life? How are they so consistant in winning bracelets over and over. Phil Ivey, Phil Hellmouth, Andy Blouch, Allen Cunningham.. list is endless.
My old roomate from University of Washington played 6-10 windows of 2/4 NL holdem and made 70k to 110k+ each year in the past 3 years I roomed with him. Was he just lucky? Now hes going to Harvard getting his dentistary.Comment -
plzkthx
YOU WANT ANSWERS? READ THREAD THOROUGHLY I'M DONE EXPLAINING
All your questions will be answered in the thread. hint understand completely before you post.
PS don't want to take time and effort to read this is one place luck won't help you out.
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Yes i read through the thread but not completely. You go on about how big names lose so much money then win so much back and so on. They are called swings but overall those big names make money in the long run. Thats how poker is...as long as your are up ahead, you are successful.
And my theory about you not being successful in poker and blaming lack of "luck" you had, is true. You have a 2% ROI on pokerstars and a negitive 60% ROI on Fulltiltpoker which makes sense to your frustration with poker how you have not profitting from poker.. You are losing in poker and accussing other "successful" poker players on being luckier and therefore because you can not be a successful poker player, NO ONE CAN unless they are "lucky". Just like your 2nd OP, you complaining about only getting 67th in that tournment against 32,000 players, you say the player who knocked you out got lucky.
You ever heard the saying a poker player always remembers the bad beats they get but some how can't remember the times they gave the bad beat to someone. Thats you.
Heres your personal stats.
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...01545.html?t=2 2% roi
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...743F2.html?t=2 -60% roi
together you should be in the negitive.
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btw heres my account. since im successful im so glad i have all this luck on my side.
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Its clear to see who looses and who wins by reading this.Comment -
Great now the world can see the truth of the luck factor in the poker world just look and compare our stats completely.
THAT GOES FOR EVERYBODY THAT FINDS THIS THREAD INTERESTING and you will find that the luck factor
greatly favored plzkthx over myself
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...E1CBF.ht ml?t=2
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...01545.ht ml?t=2
PAULYPOKER
THANKYOU FOR THE GREAT POSTComment -
6pthsComment -
HERE IS A QUOTE FROM ME AT THE INTRODUCTION OF THIS THREAD
"But first lets get some input on my take and belief's on this subject.
I would like to here from both WINNERS and LOSERS.
Me myself: I would say i am a loser. I am consistently in the top 10 % of 86% of the tournaments I enter but the prize is not worth the time invested. Why? it just does not pay the bills. I hit that less than 1% streak 3 times in the last three years always at the wrong time. meaning 1st place was something i could not retire on."
PAULYPOKERComment -
plzkthx
WITH ALL DO RESPECT SIR YOUR WINNINGS TO DATE FOR 2009 IS $29,894 IS AN AVERAGE AT BEST INCOME IF POKER IS WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING AND IN 2008 YOUR INCOME WAS $829.00 ?WERE YOU HOMELESS THAT YEAR? Just thought I would ask.Comment -
OP, threads like this 1 make our forum worse. Could have easily called it "there's no such thing as a professional handicapper". So similar. Your thoughts are ignorant. Poker_dummy is right, your stupidity in this thread hurts everyone.Comment -
FishFace5
My 4th rule in sports betting go see for yourself
who has the best set of rules they follow for sports betting? POST AND VOTE NOW.
"#4 ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT SPORTS BETTING IS THE ONLY FORM OF GAMBLING WHERE YOU CAN USE TRUE LOGIC AND NOT HAVE TO RELY SOLELY ON LUCK LIKE ALL OTHER FORMS! YOU HAVE A VAST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE INVESTMENT YOUR ABOUT TO MAKE AT YOUR FINGER Tips USE IT!"
PAULYPOKERComment -
"YOU HAVE A VAST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE INVESTMENT YOUR ABOUT TO MAKE AT YOUR FINGER Tips USE IT!"
This is true at the poker table as well.
I didn't highlight your first sentence from that post because it is incorrect.Comment -
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FishFace5
your so cool fishface you send me a privite message and then have the nerve to come back here and stab me in the back I'm thru with you.
"TELL ME KID HAVE YOU EVER DANCED WITH THE DEVIL UNDER THE PALE MOONLIGHT"Comment -
I sent you a PM trying to help. You replied with basically a copy and paste from your thread about how you know how to play but its just all luck. Oh well, I tried. Sorry you're so unlucky.
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Of course theres luck in everything. For me personally, it would take many years (5+)of earning a living through gambling to be called a pro. Myself I had 2 years of good luck followed by a long stretch of unusual bad luck that is still going on, I swear I cant win an NHL game if it goes to OT
. But like most business related things in life, a bankroll is key, just like if you open a business, you wont last long if you dont have the bankroll to endure the down periods...But all in all, the % of luck involved does kinda make a pro poker player sound more legitimate than it actually is. And if truth be told and certainly not to be rude, people hellbent on being called pro are probably thirsty to be labeled good at something.
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plenty of pros exist.Comment -
Annette Obrestad won a FREEROLL with out looking at her hold cards before. It's documented and theirs a video but I don't feel like looking for it. You can tell its true because she did things like fold AA UTG. She did this to prove to her family that luck wasn't why she was winning and poker is about playing the situation and the other players. She was like 15 when she did this by the way.
This is for anyone else who wants to discuss the topic aside from Pauly.Comment
YOU ARE
