Quick and painless defeat on stars

**franklee168** · 08-22-21, 06:31 PM

Looks like a typical SBR hand

**thetrinity** · 08-22-21, 07:10 PM

O yea, Sbr that gets in on the flop 100/100 times. When you have 200 big blinds and 15 minute levels, you can play a little safer though.

**Enkhbat** · 08-22-21, 08:49 PM

People call it jokerstars.

**blankoblanco** · 08-22-21, 10:07 PM

Brutal beat

**thechaoz** · 08-23-21, 12:15 AM

Brutal beat yes, but stars has the best RNG in the game. They use server entropy (google it if you want to get nerdy).

SBR uses yahoo messenger "rng".

I don't blame them. It cost mid to high 6 figures to obtain a truly random number generator. That's why you see weird shit despite 10s of thousands of hands.

Everyone knows what we are working with. No worries.

**Ryermkd** · 08-23-21, 07:49 AM

Well that was a long 14 days, let me just say this...

TLDW; 7:00

**thetrinity** · 08-23-21, 08:51 AM

I will give my thoughts on the actual play on the hand after a few more people see it and comment. Thanks.

**MCherry281** · 08-23-21, 09:57 AM

There's no way not to go broke on that hand. Just ran into a really bad cooler.

**pablo222** · 08-23-21, 10:02 AM

I was in the same hand, 5 minutes in, almost played same way with very similar runout in a Pokerstars Sunday Million back in the day. I was on the lucky side of it. Ended up min cashing.

**blankoblanco** · 08-23-21, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

I will give my thoughts on the actual play on the hand after a few more people see it and comment. Thanks.

Your play or opponent's? I would've probably taken the same action you did every turn, maybe slightly different bet sizings but that's whatever. There's an argument for not reraising flop since you have the board crushed, but I don't mind trying to build a pot deep against someone who minraises. And I don't really like either of shaner's minraises, but I rarely minraise myself

**jtoler** · 08-23-21, 01:51 PM

u had to be thinking he hit a straight on the turn right

**blankoblanco** · 08-23-21, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

u had to be thinking he hit a straight on the turn right

He cold-called a 3bet from the BB, he really shouldn't have any 45, including suited. But of course it's a possibility if you don't have a read on the player

Oh he probably wouldn't minraise any 45 on the flop with another player to act either, it's a fine price to just call

So no, I think the range of 22/33/AK makes way more sense

**jtoler** · 08-23-21, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

He cold-called a 3bet from the BB, he's really shouldn't have any 45, including suited. But of course it's a possibility if you don't have a read on the player

But no, I think the range of 22/33/AK makes way more sense

I hear ya but look at the chip stack, I call raises with hands like this myself preflop nobody puts u on it

**blankoblanco** · 08-23-21, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

I hear ya but look at the chip stack, I call raises with hands like this myself preflop nobody puts u on it

You probably shouldn't, the implied odds aren't as good as you think with bad position

But yeah, I edited my post after thinking about it: the other thing is his flop play doesn't fit with 45. Why minraise with a player behind when you're just getting great odds on a call?

Not impossible, just not likely. Not what you should put him on

**jtoler** · 08-23-21, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

You probably shouldn't, the implied odds aren't as good as you think with bad position

But yeah, I edited my post after thinking about it: the other thing is his flop play doesn't fit with 45. Why minraise with a player behind when you're just getting great odds on a call?

Not impossible, just not likely. Not what you should put him on

he raised on the flop if he has 45 hearts he has 19 outs. the other thing online I dont act as if the opponent is necessarily thinking like ur describing. asking why would a player do such and such they just arnt that smart and arnt thinking that many levels before they bet with a much quicker clock than live.

**thetrinity** · 08-23-21, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

u had to be thinking he hit a straight on the turn right

I had some thoughts I want to hear some more people chime in though.

**thetrinity** · 08-23-21, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Your play or opponent's? I would've probably taken the same action you did every turn, maybe slightly different bet sizings but that's whatever. There's an argument for not reraising flop since you have the board crushed, but I don't mind trying to build a pot deep against someone who minraises. And I don't really like either of shaner's minraises, but I rarely minraise myself

more his but mine as well

**thetrinity** · 08-24-21, 09:30 AM

My thoughts for the whole hand:

I would like to preface this with saying that in a tournament with a long structure I expect players to be average players but somewhat on the conservative side until they prove otherwise. I may quickly change my opinion, but usually it would take more than 4 or 5 hands. OTTH!

Preflop

Button open raises slightly over the min (could be anything IMO)

SB (me) 3 bets. Although I have KK, I would pretty much do this with any hand I was going to play against a button raise from the small blind and for this exact sizing.

BB calls the 3 bet. This happened pretty fast, I thought it might be a misclick actually. I'm ok with the cold call with AK but a smallish 4 bet would likely get him heads up against me and give him position (8k something would be a decent sizing). A 4 bet would look super strong and likely take down the pot unless I nail the flop. Of course, here he would be getting 5 bet, but overall a 4 bet with AK with a button raise and small blind 3 bet is perfectly fine.

The button calls (not surprising, I would only fold pure steal type hands once its 3 way this deep or maybe hands that are hard to play like a7 offsuit).

**thetrinity** · 08-24-21, 09:41 AM

Shit something came up I will be back with the rest tonight.

**thetrinity** · 08-24-21, 09:08 PM

Going to break the flop up into 2 parts

Flop Part 1

SB (me) I bet 3000 into about 10500. I have the deck crippled. I would probably lead about 1/4 to 1/3 pot almost every flop here. We are so deep I would expect some loose calls for only 3000.

BB He min raises to 6000. I really don't like this raise to be honest. I think 9k or 10k would be better. He would still get action if I have worse kings, flush draws etc. This min raise will be enough to get me to fold all of my garbage that wiffed, and likely will diminish the chance of the button calling as well. I do like the min raise if he has something like an ace high flush draw or 45 suited, where he's planning to bomb away if he gets called. He has a strong hand right now, but is unlikely to get much action from worse hands. I actually think just flat calling is better and hoping he gets a button fold then he will have a position advantage against me with an underrepped hand.

Button folds and back to me...

**thetrinity** · 08-24-21, 09:46 PM

Flop part 2

SB (me) I go back to the flop. A lot of times cold calls of 3 bets are pocket pairs, so I am thinking a good chance he has 22 or 33 on this one. Also, I think it's decent shot he has ace high flush draws, especially the combos with a gutter ball. Maybe 45 hearts. Honestly, I'm not really thinking the king because that's the caser, so I'm targeting the other hands. I make it too much he might dump the drawy type hands, so I go to 19000 total, slightly over a 3x raise.

BB This is where I think he's solely playing his hand and not thinking about what I could have. VERY IMPORTANT is that he has the ace of hearts. This means I don't have any of the ace high flush draws. I think my hand looks a lot like AA actually at this point. Highly unlikely anyone would do anything besides call the min raise with KQ KJ etc. Maybe I have the 45 of hearts or 56 of hearts but that's two combos in the whole deck. He's racing against one and barely ahead against the other. Quite possible I 3 bet the 22 or 33 and he's drawing to runner runner. Maybe I even 3 bet k2 or k3 suited here (I probably wouldn't this early readless but some players might). At any rate, it seems like he's in bad shape or trying to fade a ton of outs at least. A guy spazzing the 4th hand of a 2 day tournament would be highly unusual, especially after he's folded every hand to this point, so you can pretty much throw out stone cold bluffs. I think this is a fold now, especially with the ace of hearts. Anyways he calls so we go to the turn.

**thetrinity** · 08-24-21, 10:14 PM

Turn and river

SB me The ace comes so there goes the nuts. Anyways, I kind of like the card because I think there's a decent chance he has the ace high flush draw. The pot is now huge for so early and after he called on the flop, I doubt that he has 22 or 33 anymore. I pretty much expect him to have a flush draw (probably ace high) so I make a bet I think he will have to call but still charges him to see the river (1/6 starting stack). I feel good enough in the read to check and maybe get away from a river heart that doesnt pair the board (definitely would call a small bet, I'm saying against an all in I could fold). If I bet too much here, I might be pot committed regardless of the river or I could lose him right now.

BB min raises, guess it makes sense if he thinks he's ahead, not going to speculate because I doubt I ever see this card with the previous action

Back to me

Now I am just thinking about the 2 hands I could be losing too. AA for 3 aces seems EXTREMELY unlikely. It would be the most ridiculous line possible. Slow play preflop, min raise the flop then flat call a huge reraise on the flop. That would make no sense, so I assume that he doesn't have AA. Go back to what I said about preflop. It seemed like a bit of a misclick on his part. It was fast. Now, I am worried he could have the 45 of hearts (maybe just 45) because almost nothing else makes any sense. Worst case, I am live still. 100% obvious he wants to play for stacks already, so the nuts has to be considered always IMO. I talk myself into a few other overplays (A4 hearts, stuff liek that) but never really thought he had AK. A little thought, but pretty easy all in on my part especially since I thought him having 3 aces was almost impossible. He of course calls and has top 2.

River Happy having to fade 2 outs for about 1 second and it goes away like that. FWIW he got like 350th and they were paying 98, so he didn't do so much with the early miracle.

**thetrinity** · 08-25-21, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

he raised on the flop if he has 45 hearts he has 19 outs. the other thing online I dont act as if the opponent is necessarily thinking like ur describing. asking why would a player do such and such they just arnt that smart and arnt thinking that many levels before they bet with a much quicker clock than live.

In this hand if he had 45 hearts, he has 14 outs. 8 hearts (Ah,6h,7h,8h,9h,10h,Jh,Qh) then there are 3 more aces for a straight and 3 more 6s for the other end of the straight. Because of full house redraws, 45h would be in the low 40s to win, which is pretty good considering it's going against top set. I believe you counted every single heart which is how you got 19. Anyways, I do kind of agree with the rest of what you are saying.

**thetrinity** · 08-25-21, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

He cold-called a 3bet from the BB, he really shouldn't have any 45, including suited. But of course it's a possibility if you don't have a read on the player

Oh he probably wouldn't minraise any 45 on the flop with another player to act either, it's a fine price to just call

So no, I think the range of 22/33/AK makes way more sense

Readless, I think you have to throw more big draw type hands in there, especially so deep. If he's thinking at all, the minraise will set him up to blow me off the hand potentially on later streets. My initial reaction was (22/33), big draws (ace combos, 45h, maybe 56h), I put the Kx type hands last mainly because I have them drawing dead except one that needed a miracle to win and also because that's the case card. I do think calling with 45h here is the worst of the 3 preflop options from the big blind. 4 betting might not be a bad idea with the button and small blind raising. Its going to look strong as hell. Of course here it wont work out because I have KK, but like I said in my flop analysis, I would 3 bet in that spot with a lot of hands. Folding and trying to get better reads on players probably is a good idea though, personally that's what I would do. I could see players willing to use 3 reentries 4 betting in that spot though.

**jtoler** · 08-25-21, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

In this hand if he had 45 hearts, he has 14 outs. 8 hearts (Ah,6h,7h,8h,9h,10h,Jh,Qh) then there are 3 more aces for a straight and 3 more 6s for the other end of the straight. Because of full house redraws, 45h would be in the low 40s to win, which is pretty good considering it's going against top set. I believe you counted every single heart which is how you got 19. Anyways, I do kind of agree with the rest of what you are saying.

ur right not 19 I cant count I was trying to provide a fast answer and screwed that up

**thetrinity** · 08-26-21, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

ur right not 19 I cant count I was trying to provide a fast answer and screwed that up

No problem, the point was well taken. That was his best draw possible and something that he could have called preflop. I was more worried about that specific hand on the turn mainly because I had a hard time putting him on anything at that point.