A dive in the Silva Sonnen fight?

[yisman]

it was a good stoppage.

[SportsPedagogy]

I took sonnen, the knee was clean, I was hoping it was illegal so I could justify my loss, but it hit his chest. I knocked a guy down with a knee tithe chest in one of my first fights and I never really practiced, imagine what Silvas knee felt like... He has probably thrown that knee 500k times in training. The stoppage was fine, Silva wasn't connecting, but Chael was out of wind from the knee and not able to regain his composure, he was in trouble. There was no dive, just a guy who has never lost in the UFC winning another fight

[hels]

Silva won the fight, there's no controversy.

[keyboarding]

I don't think it was fixed, but Sonnen wasn't getting stuck solid when on the ground. I just feel the ref stepped in a little to early.

Fight wasn't fixed... Stopped too soon though...

Watch the replay again. Silva throws about 6-8 punches and lands two bombs to end the fight. With that much time left on the clock, Silva position's over Sonnen, Silva's world class striking, and the fact Sonnen wasn't defending himself with any real intelligence, they had to stop that fight.

Sonnen wasn't getting out of there any time soon.

He almost won in the first round.

He was never close to winning the fight in the first round.

[The Kraken]

Nothing more Chael would have loved than to end this fight by a spinning back fist. Chael will ve back. Chael v. GSP will be intereesting.

[yisman]

He was never close to winning the fight in the first round.

Sure he was. He landed a few solid shots to Silva's head and if the round had gone another minute, who knows.

[onlooker]

OMG.

Sonnen went for spinning backfist, fell, and then got the shit beat out of him.

Watch the replay. The knee was to the chest. It was completely legal. Also, there are a lot of idiots here if they think those punches Silva was landing weren't doing damage. No one here could have taken those punches. It was a good stoppage as Sonnen had no chance at that point.

I would love to see one of you guys take a knee to the chest while on the ground from the best fighter in the world and then get punched repeatedly in the head.

No sh!t we can't, but we don't train to fight in the UFC either. I love that approach to try and make a point.

Calling people idiots for thinking the punches weren't solid, is purely idiotic itself. A few were, but not all of them. Yes he was finished, but I would think a Championship fight would of been let go a little longer.

I just feel it was called a bit early, but no big deal either way.

Real quick comment about the first round, I don't think Sonnen hurt Silva in it.

[AraiWa]

All this talk about a dive, in this particular fight and in reference to the Tyson fight, is BULLSHITE

[byronbb]

It wasn't to the head, it was a knee to the chest...watch the replay. Even the announcers called it a legal blow.

UFC announcers are a bunch of UFC rah-rah yes men.

[austin1023]

regardless of knee he got back to feet and got knocked down from a right hand that hit his glove with no power....and u can tell at one point he shakes his head on ground to make silvas ground and pound look like its affecting him. he most absolutely took a dive i replayed this a million times so i dont give a shit what anyone says.

[tony_come]

Inside job

Just like bradley/manny

[Vaughany]

Pretty conclusive...would like to see u recover from this...

[DublinMeUp]

Pretty conclusive...would like to see u recover from this...

but see how the tip of Silva's thigh rubbed off sonnens chin, illegal i tell ya, it's all a fix, i want my Sonnen bet back

[keyboarding]

Sure he was. He landed a few solid shots to Silva's head and if the round had gone another minute, who knows.

Silva has taken strikes to the face many times (usually when he leaves his hands down at his side like a lunatic). He was never in danger on the ground. Sonnen wasn't trying to finish the fight on the ground, he was trying to win the round without exposing himself to a submission.

[yisman]

just saying that Silva had time to get out of it and he didn't seem to be having much success. Granted, he wasn't curled up in the fetal position like Sonnen in the second round, and he had the half guard, but he was taking shots. There's only so many of those you can take. The round ended so we'll never know what might've occurred.

[DirtyX]

It looked like Sonnen took a dive at first imo, (not gonna lie) however, that was before I saw the replay. I think Sonnen was hurt before the knee, and the knee took the wind and the heart out of him. I also think Sonnen knew he was about to get smashed and pounded into oblivion. To be dead honest, I believe Sonnen may have turned his head and put his glove up to make the ref jump in earlier than he would have had he not done that. He was badly hurt, and prob. wanted the ref to jump in, or that's what it looked like to me. I am totally speculating by the way, and really have no real true facts as to what really transpired out there. I do believe (regardless) that fight should be counted as a legit win for Silva, and a legit loss for Mr. Sonnen. I will say this though; I was very surprised, and impressed by the way Sonnen handled the loss. He remained professional, dude kept himself composed, and he didn't do any WWF bullshit. So, for that reason, I would like to applaud Mr. Sonnen.

P.S. - That was a legit stoppage, Absolutely no doubt about it whatsoever.

[TheCentaur]

but see how the tip of Silva's thigh rubbed off sonnens chin, illegal i tell ya, it's all a fix, i want my Sonnen bet back

A deflected knee to the sternum at the end of its power range (needed to connect 6-8 inches before it did for power)? Big deal

[spargament]

First off, anyone who actually thinks this was fixed is just foolish. Not enough money in the world on Sonnen, nor enough risk of Silva losing to warrant anyone event trying to whip that up. Also, I do believe a fighter is considered down when even one knee is on the ground, I remember Matt Serra used to pull that crap all the time just to avoid knees and feet to his face. Not that it matters, Silva's shots were legal, and even if they had deducted a point and separated the two of them, a KO/TKO minus one point is still...a KO/TKO, and you gotta know that nothing in the world was stopping that from happening in this bout. Sonnen is a master of building hype, and he couldn't even finish the job the first match when he was using PED's. Silva is the best fighter in the world over the past 6 years, absolutely no question, and a guy that has NEVER cared enough to learn how to defend a triangle choke (the Silva loss via triangle is one of MANY for Chael) is not gonna stop a pissed off Anderson Silva from making sure Sonnen got KTFO.

[DublinMeUp]

A deflected knee to the sternum at the end of its power range (needed to connect 6-8 inches before it did for power)? Big deal

what?

[wantitall4moi]

I told you guys years ago MMA/UFC is barely above WWE in terms of legitimacy. Guys making Dana White rich because they believe this shit is real. They set up fights people want to see, sure, but they also make sure the guys they want to win keep wining.

Brock Lesner perfect example, this guy couldnt fight a lick, but he gets pushed from the start and made into some legend then gets some disease or whatever and is now basically back to wrestling and not even doing that all that much.

Sonnen is a sideshow act anyway, he is another perfct example he is definitely more wrestler than legit fighter. He talks a lot of shit, calls radio shows and then gets beat (while looking decent in the process) So theyre obviously protecting his image somewhat and maybe looking to push him later on. But I doubt he has that much longevity in the interest of people and by the time he is supposed to get his pay off someone newer and more in the eye of the audience will come along and he'll be shit out of luck.

As far as this fight being a 'fix' or a 'dive' when it is all make believe then there really isnt any such thing as a fix or a dive.

[TheCentaur]

A deflected knee to the sternum at the end of its power range (needed to connect 6-8 inches before it did for power)? Big deal

What I mean is when hitting something there is an area in which the force of the strike is highest. Hit too early or too late and the force is greatly diminished. That knee looked like it connected late without much force driving into Chael. Add to that the deflection off his forearm and you get a knee at about 50% power at most.

Imagine swinging a bat, the catcher's mitt getting in the way and then being out in front of the pitch so that you hit the ball way out in front of the plate. The ball wouldn't be hit very hard.

[Vitooch]

Lol this is still a discussion

[probettor1]

Did Chael Sonnen take a dive? After watching in slow motion it was a phantom punch that brought him down, and then a deflected knee kind of landed to the body. Those were the 2 shots he talked about after the fight. None of the ground and pound prior to stoppage really landed.

Has an underdog ever taken a dive? Are you with me that those shots were nowhere near solid?

He threw an elbow with all his power, he was trying to kill silva. Silva saw that coming. You dont need to take a dive to lose to silva. Besides winning that fight would have made him a money machine. People buying his books, getting the best sponsors in the bussiness, having his own show and getting paid a fortune for fight. He is nothing but a clown now. He might take a dive in his next fight, but this was the fight of his life. For many people it would be nice if he just retires now, it sucks when you talk so much trash and you dont get the job done. His trash talk is not that fun anymore.

[DirtyX]

I told you guys years ago MMA/UFC is barely above WWE in terms of legitimacy. Guys making Dana White rich because they believe this shit is real. They set up fights people want to see, sure, but they also make sure the guys they want to win keep wining.

Brock Lesner perfect example, this guy couldnt fight a lick, but he gets pushed from the start and made into some legend then gets some disease or whatever and is now basically back to wrestling and not even doing that all that much.

Sonnen is a sideshow act anyway, he is another perfct example he is definitely more wrestler than legit fighter. He talks a lot of shit, calls radio shows and then gets beat (while looking decent in the process) So theyre obviously protecting his image somewhat and maybe looking to push him later on. But I doubt he has that much longevity in the interest of people and by the time he is supposed to get his pay off someone newer and more in the eye of the audience will come along and he'll be shit out of luck.

As far as this fight being a 'fix' or a 'dive' when it is all make believe then there really isnt any such thing as a fix or a dive.

Elaborate on that a little bit. While I may disagree with you, I am intrigue by this somewhat. So do you really think there has been people losing in the UFC on purpose, as in, they threw the fight on purpose because they were instructed to prior to the fight?

[DublinMeUp]

What I mean is when hitting something there is an area in which the force of the strike is highest. Hit too early or too late and the force is greatly diminished. That knee looked like it connected late without much force driving into Chael. Add to that the deflection off his forearm and you get a knee at about 50% power at most.

Imagine swinging a bat, the catcher's mitt getting in the way and then being out in front of the pitch so that you hit the ball way out in front of the plate. The ball wouldn't be hit very hard.

It was more of a "what is the reason you point that out" than a "please elaborate on your weird momentum theory" what.

Anyway, my OP was not really a serious comment on the fight.

[SportsPedagogy]

I told you guys years ago MMA/UFC is barely above WWE in terms of legitimacy. Guys making Dana White rich because they believe this shit is real. They set up fights people want to see, sure, but they also make sure the guys they want to win keep wining.

Brock Lesner perfect example, this guy couldnt fight a lick, but he gets pushed from the start and made into some legend then gets some disease or whatever and is now basically back to wrestling and not even doing that all that much.

Sonnen is a sideshow act anyway, he is another perfct example he is definitely more wrestler than legit fighter. He talks a lot of shit, calls radio shows and then gets beat (while looking decent in the process) So theyre obviously protecting his image somewhat and maybe looking to push him later on. But I doubt he has that much longevity in the interest of people and by the time he is supposed to get his pay off someone newer and more in the eye of the audience will come along and he'll be shit out of luck.

As far as this fight being a 'fix' or a 'dive' when it is all make believe then there really isnt any such thing as a fix or a dive.

So I was at practice a few weeks ago and I couldn't help but notice the stitches in Duane Ludwigs head from his fight with Hardy....

[DublinMeUp]

I told you guys years ago MMA/UFC is barely above WWE in terms of legitimacy. Guys making Dana White rich because they believe this shit is real. They set up fights people want to see, sure, but they also make sure the guys they want to win keep wining.

Brock Lesner perfect example, this guy couldnt fight a lick, but he gets pushed from the start and made into some legend then gets some disease or whatever and is now basically back to wrestling and not even doing that all that much.

Sonnen is a sideshow act anyway, he is another perfct example he is definitely more wrestler than legit fighter. He talks a lot of shit, calls radio shows and then gets beat (while looking decent in the process) So theyre obviously protecting his image somewhat and maybe looking to push him later on. But I doubt he has that much longevity in the interest of people and by the time he is supposed to get his pay off someone newer and more in the eye of the audience will come along and he'll be shit out of luck.

As far as this fight being a 'fix' or a 'dive' when it is all make believe then there really isnt any such thing as a fix or a dive.

So basically Dana told Terry Etim that he'd have to eat this for the ratings? "Its all good Terry, think about all the fans and how much they'll love it. You probably won't even feel it (I suppose this part would be true lol) and the chances of long term damage are pretty low in my opinion"

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[Vitooch]

^ That was a dive by Etim. You can see him wink to the ref that he is ok while on the floor.

[DublinMeUp]

^ That was a dive by Etim. You can see him wink to the ref that he is ok while on the floor.

Damn really, ok then maybe it is all rigged.. was Silva's front kick faked also? you gotta give them props for pulling this stuff off then, I wonder how they make the heel shaped dent in Etim's face look so real.. =)

[PS3]

I told you guys years ago MMA/UFC is barely above WWE in terms of legitimacy. Guys making Dana White rich because they believe this shit is real. They set up fights people want to see, sure, but they also make sure the guys they want to win keep wining.

Brock Lesner perfect example, this guy couldnt fight a lick, but he gets pushed from the start and made into some legend then gets some disease or whatever and is now basically back to wrestling and not even doing that all that much.

Sonnen is a sideshow act anyway, he is another perfct example he is definitely more wrestler than legit fighter. He talks a lot of shit, calls radio shows and then gets beat (while looking decent in the process) So theyre obviously protecting his image somewhat and maybe looking to push him later on. But I doubt he has that much longevity in the interest of people and by the time he is supposed to get his pay off someone newer and more in the eye of the audience will come along and he'll be shit out of luck.

As far as this fight being a 'fix' or a 'dive' when it is all make believe then there really isnt any such thing as a fix or a dive.

MMA is not for you. Go watch some Hello Kitty with your kids.

[stevenash]

MMA is as legit as WWE.

Where do I start?

Franklin against Shamrock?
Frye against Hall?
Macias laying down for his buddy Taktarov?
Takada against Coleman?
Takada against anybody?
and on and on and on and on and on

[spargament]

Elaborate on that a little bit. While I may disagree with you, I am intrigue by this somewhat. So do you really think there has been people losing in the UFC on purpose, as in, they threw the fight on purpose because they were instructed to prior to the fight?

This would be an intriguing discussion if we were in Japan about fifteen years ago discussing original pancrase guys and other shoot-fighters who would LITERALLY be just extending stiff-style pro wrestling into more of an MMA hybrid where the outcome WOULD be predetermined at times. The thought that it's ANYTHING like that now is so foolish, with the small amount of money that most guys outside of the main-events make with the risks they take...the kick Etim took isn't some pro-wrestling bump, the man went unconscious...ask Mustapha Al-Turk if he was just playing out some choreography at UFC 92 when Kongo beat his face to a pulp....

If you wanna have an intriguing contemporary and relevant discussion about scripted/fake/predetermined outcomes and fixes in the world of fighting, PLEASE look at boxing before you even think about world-class MMA

[k13]

So basically Dana told Terry Etim that he'd have to eat this for the ratings? "Its all good Terry, think about all the fans and how much they'll love it. You probably won't even feel it (I suppose this part would be true lol) and the chances of long term damage are pretty low in my opinion"

Dana does not care about nobody fights. Those are just fillers and the more brutal/exciting the better.

Most important are the money makers.

[DublinMeUp]

Dana does not care about nobody fights. Those are just fillers and the more brutal/exciting the better.

Most important are the money makers.

Dana: Hey Vitor, how do you feel about Anderson planting his foot into your jaw?
Vitor: I'm cool with it.

[stevenash]

Takada is a Japanese legend with limited skills.
Marc Coleman was offered cash money to take a dive for Takada to make Takada more credible.