Someone give Brick a urine test.
Brick- You are making no sense.
Brick- You are making no sense.
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Originally posted by raiders72001
...which is the biggest cop-out in the world.
It's like the online casinos having "Management decision is final" at the bottom of their T&Cs which translates as we can do whatever we want to you, we can apply the rules but if the rules don't cover something we can still stiff you with the "Management decision is final" clause.Originally posted by pags11Originally posted by BuddyBearOriginally posted by curiousComment -
Terris is right with that example. Of course this edge will be achieved with sharp lines only; in other cases such a sportsbook will be out of business (sooner or later) giving out bonuses or not.Originally posted by Terris
When you look at all the other expenses a book has to make (aff deals -- percentage of losses, agents fees etc.) a moderate cash bonus is least expensive and actually one of the best perks, because it benefits the PLAYERS. Why should they be overlooked? Without them... well...
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QUOTE: "Because of this they need help from watchdog sites much more than the normal player. This causes problems for a player such as you that may need help."
RESPONSE: As I have said on this forum before, I do indeed scalp at times but this is not the focus of what I do. I'm looking for percentage play angles through statistical data. But I will say this: I personally don't see anything wrong with scalping out of a bet. Especially like tonight, I had ample opportunity to scalp out of the Boise game. I think WSEX had BG @ +300. Wouldve been a nice scalp but I liked my bet and stayed with it. Doesn't mean I'll win. Point is that I scalp out when I get the heebie-jeebies.
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EBone- The guys I'm talking about are different from your situation. Making an occasional scalp or hedge is a good move. There's a couple of guys here that do this for a living and some that just make some extra $.
They take advantage of every bonus that they can get and do not gamble. They just look for guaranteed scalps. Scalping along with the bonuses can be quite profitable.
These guys have to get bailed out time after time because they play at any book that gives a bonus. You see these same guys crying on the forum daily that their limits are cut and that their bonus has been confiscated.
I would hate to be Dozer. These guys cry to Dozer once a week about how they were cheated from getting free money.Comment -
The way I look at is I have been losing my ass for years. No one was giving me extra money back. They are making a profit arent they? Am I going to feel guilty for finding an advanatage? Hel no.
I also wouldnt think of messing with someone who i take a bet from.Comment -
Originally posted by raiders72001
Now this post I 100% agree with: I don't play at any book below a B+ because I trust SBR that much. I'd love to play at Mansion but they are a B. I just don't pay attention to any other book unless they have recently been upgraded to a B+ or higher from SBR.
My guess is that Bill gets totally swamped with some of these requests from pure scalpers on crappy books. I agree with you Raiders: that would be a bit hard to muster if Bill knew that the guy he's supporting is a scalper and the book he is requesting answers from is a documented D+ or below book. It says it on SBR's review site in black and white. USE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN PLAYING WITH THESE BOOKS (not the exact quote but you know what I mean).
I think these types of requests really take advantage of the spirit of SBR saying in essence: "We are the player advocate. We'll support you if you have a legitimate claim." I suppose legitimacy can be defined as broad or as narrow as you want.
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I'LL TELL YOU WHY.......Originally posted by raiders72001
If you have a hot/cold deal you earn every week on volume and it doesn't matter if the player/scalper wins or loses.
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Drunk I'm a big fan of Hot/Cold arrangements, in lay man terms the agent gets a tiny piece of the players overall bets for bringing that player to the sportsbook. The website, the agent, ect has to be absolutely sure he is sending that player to a A+ book he will be happy at because the agent gets nothing if the player walks or the book tanks.
Raiders...your material has been excellent lately.
Thats a very good post and 100% spot on.They take advantage of every bonus that they can get and do not gamble. They just look for guaranteed scalps. Scalping along with the bonuses can be quite profitable.Comment -
Drunk and John- I think that an agent with a hot/cold deal that knowingly gives credit to a pure scalper is no better than the player that's a pure scalper taking bonuses meant for others.
All involved in this activity are screwing the books. If you want to be a pure scalper then do it with your own money. I see nothing wrong with pro scalpers using their own funds.Comment -
I'm not sure about that... if the book wasn't looking for action on the side which the scalper is taking why would they have moved away from the general trend of other books? Seems to me that most books are probably trying to averaging the action on the other side since they are offering a higher line then is available elsewhere... unless there is an error in a posted line why would it vary so much from other published lines?
but I also think that a book, like any business, should be able to decide who they take action from... if they don't like the actions of clients ban 'em and find other clients... if you don't like the actions of a certain book... close your account and look elsewhere....Comment -
oh before someone flames me... I'm a admitted low limit better and a complete square... just trying to apply logic and common sense to a specific situation...
that being sad I look for value on my low limit square bets... might as well save a dime or two here and there, right? (real dimes... they're round and jingle in your pocket in case some you guys aren't familar with them anymore ;-) )Comment -
No flames coming from me. I only jump on the frauds.
When credit players scalp both the player and agent are working the book over. The book has to pay a percentage of volume on both winning and losing bets. The book loses while the player and agent win.Comment -
okay... I wasn't considering the credit/agent aspect... thanks for clarifying...Comment -
I see a BIG misunderstanding here concerning the term BONUS. It's an INCENTIVE for the players for joining the book. The talk here is about an upront cash bonus, but why do you stop there? I see a great deal of bonuses daily at Pinnacle, giving me a up to 60% vig bonus. Why would that be different?! We all know, that a sign up bonus gives you an equivalent of a reduced juice for the rollover period, and as mentioned earlier a 20% signup with a 5 time rollover is still in book's favor.
How you play with your balance is up to you. There can be value bets, square sides, scalps, parlays, middles... You cannot say I am not allowed to scalp some game with bonus money. Following this philosophy I would be unable to scalp games at Pinnacle or Hollywood, as I am using their bonus in reduced vig...
Going further, what about referral bonuses or aff deals? Books give them 35% in bonuses for player's losses. How much of that money comes from lost scalps? Do you put restrictions on yourself on how can you spend it? I doubt it...Comment -
magnovox- You are talking apples and oranges. John's quote explains it best.
You cant allow scalpers to have promotional money meant for regular players. I think the player advocate industry tries to give the books some slack on this. Scalpers patterns are pretty easy to detect. I lot of books dont mind scalpers but they sure dont want to give them money and allow them to scalp their way through the rollover.Comment -
I disagree. I gave a valid example on two most common types of bonuses offered today. As a matter of fact, it is also Dozer's point of view, as laid out in the 'Oasis' thread.Comment -
Raiders ... I think you have missed completely magnovox's point.Originally posted by raiders72001
I'll explain. Let us use a very simple analogy ...
Shop A. Gives you a £20 voucher but you must spend at least £200.
Shop B. Is cheaper than shop A by 15%.
The theory magnovox was explaining is that ... in essence, both are discounting real 'prices'. Just Shop A offers the incentive as a cash amount, shop B by discounted prices.
I dont think John's qoute was relevant to this at all. He was referring to the practice and funding of scalping, magnovox was refering to the different types of incentives employed.
I think you have mixed up your apples and oranges up there, quite ironically.Comment -
Natrass- I understand prerfectly what he was getting at.
Bonus whore scalpers see it differently then others. You guys say that low vig = bonus + high vig.
Books have written rules against bonus abuse. When the bonus is confiscated the player whines to SBR who then has to nag the book and the arguments start.
The bonus whores are the ones making it difficult on all. You find more problems with these gamblers than any other 10 fold.
There are few problems with gamblers playing at reduced juice places. How many guys have problems with Pinnacle?
This forum is filled with guys abusing bonuses. They are here so that SBR can keep helping them out. If it were me I would just turn my back on them. As John stated, you can easily spot these guys.Comment -
"Bonus whore scalpers"? Are you referring to me???
I think you are being a little intolerant. Each to their own and all that, but dont forget one thing .... the bookies want your money and you want theirs. That is the nature of our association.
In an ideal world it would be great if there was no arbitrage and then you really could shop around for value ... but that is a totally different scenario to bonuses.
Get what you can I say ... don't lose sleep over the bookies wasting bonuses ... they dont lose sleep over you losing your wad week in week out.Comment -
I'll just remind you -- those cheap books use that phrase right alongside 'how bad to the industry steam chasers are'. And I beleive you're the one finding and hitting hard those soft lines on daily basis.Originally posted by raiders72001
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Are you serious with that statement?Originally posted by raiders72001
Only guys who are 1000% solid get credit lines like you speak of. If he is a scalper/middler/gambler who cares.It's not worth it for an agent too give a credit line on a hot/cold deal too a small time scalper, but guys who play a ton it is the best deal you can get, no risk and you earn every week. The books that give hot/cold deals welcome ANY player because it's just more volume for them too earn off also, why do you think they give the deal, it's not because they are losing money.
I loath bonus whores. They are the bottom feeders of this industry.
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Exactly right. How many guys have problems with Pinnacle?Originally posted by raiders72001
Wait, hang on a minute.
On Pinnacle's homepage they are stating "Receive up to $500 sign up bonus". Also they're offering -104 on NFL. So, they're offering big bonuses and reduced VIG but yet we don't hear about people with problems at Pinnacle.
How do you explain that one, raiders? Could it just be that fact that they're a reputable book?Originally posted by pags11Originally posted by BuddyBearOriginally posted by curiousComment -
It's easily explained. It's a one time 10% sign up bonus. THere's nothing wrong with this. The problem is with the whores that play at a crap book because of a 25% bonus and the book goes under. They then get down on their knees and ask Dozer for help. Two weeks later they do the same thing.Comment -
It's not the scalper that destroys the books, it's the books themselves that don't know what they're doing.Originally posted by jjgold
That's like saying a bargain hunter at a grocery store that folded up destroyed the store. Blame the store for mispricing their goods.Comment -
Additionally, if I place a wager at Book A, what difference in the world does it make to Book A if I happen to bet the opposite side at Book B? It makes no difference. If a bet is offered, so long as it is not a mistake line, it should be werlcomed by the book and should not disqualify the player from bonuses or subject him to confiscation. Of course books can limit or boot players (and pay them) for whatever they wish.Comment -
Nothing wrong with scalping but using the bonuses for that sole purpose is wrong. It's similar to people on welfare using food stamps to buy cigarettes and beer.Comment -
It does not... If a book is heavy at +110 and everywhere else is around -105 they are heavy and want the action. Books don't like to gamble and nothing better than a scalper fullfilling that area with action to bring line back down.takes profit away from the booksComment -
So I have a non argumentative noob question
This thread introduced me to the site http://betbrain.com/, which offers arbitrage opportunities. Untill seing this site I've been looking at a bunch of sites that offer arbitrage service that charge you money if you want to know the current arbs, so my questions is why do people pay at these sites when they can go to betbrain for free?
Also, in this thread i'm seening the reference of arb bettors crying to SBR after not getting paid, can someone explain why SBR is hurt when this happens, doesn't the site just report these instances, not actually lose money, i'm quite confused. thanks for the helpComment -
Arb players tend to have many complaints which SBR follows up on each report. I know one arb player that we have helped get paid at least 5 times. He scalps obsecure props at high bonus/low rated books. These cases are very time consuming but its a fair enough trade because we get some good info on these books.Also, in this thread i'm seening the reference of arb bettors crying to SBR after not getting paid, can someone explain why SBR is hurt when this happensComment
