Will you accept a 5-4 SCOTUS decision on ObamaCare ?

[Turd Ferguson]

There is a reason why the media has already been spinning it for weeks as "an extreme, radical court"

Yeah, who could possibly still think that Scalia is a partisan hack after his rant the other day...

[boondoggle]

The sheep will never tire of being controlled by their corporate lackeys.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Any civilization that doesn't feel that it is imperative to care of it's peoples' health needs is a savage society to begin with. Wouldn't be surprised if ObamaCare gets dismantled entirely.....it's not like this nation is selfless or mature.

[ChalkyDog]

Holy christ. Frogsrangers, are you for real with that 2nd Amendment crap?

The movement to do away with it is about as big as the westboro baptist church. Both are being done by crazed lunatics.

But hey, I will tell you what. You show me proof of one member on the court that is interested in overturning the 2nd Amendment, I will give you 100 points.

Please do not point to the recent decision, because that is painfully retarded.

Seriously, show me proof of a justice who has gone on record in an opinion or otherwise stating they wanted to OVERTURN the second amendment. 100 points.

[d2bets]

Went from 83% to 71.5% now at Intrade.

[Tully Mars 63]

Does intrade have some record on SCOTUS rulings? I haven't been able to find one. I mean when they have trades showing one position, issue or candidate will probably win an election I can understand but the SCOTUS so often shocks even long time court scholars I find it hard to imagine how random people trading stocks/positions on a case could be all that accurate.

[frogsrangers]

Holy christ. Frogsrangers, are you for real with that 2nd Amendment crap?

The movement to do away with it is about as big as the westboro baptist church. Both are being done by crazed lunatics.

But hey, I will tell you what. You show me proof of one member on the court that is interested in overturning the 2nd Amendment, I will give you 100 points.

Please do not point to the recent decision, because that is painfully retarded.

Seriously, show me proof of a justice who has gone on record in an opinion or otherwise stating they wanted to OVERTURN the second amendment. 100 points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_vs._Heller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

Both 5-4 decisions in which 4 justices voted to basically nullify the individual's right to own a firearm

With these two supports, the Breyer dissent goes on to conclude, "there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas." It proposes that firearms laws be reviewed by balancing the interests (i.e., "'interest-balancing' approach") of Second Amendment protections against the government's compelling interest of preventing crime.

[Sam Odom]

Wouldn't be surprised if ObamaCare gets dismantled entirely.....

what would you know , your shit is still green

[ChalkyDog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_vs._Heller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

Both 5-4 decisions in which 4 justices voted to basically nullify the individual's right to own a firearm

I believe you are reading those wrong. More specifically to my point, neither of those opinions has a Justice gone out and said they want to do away with/overturn the 2nd Amendment.

Had to deal with this in Con Law, and I remember this specifically. Those two cases are fantastic and are all about a individual's right to own, and more importantly does it extend to the states. Because I don't want to get into some convoluted con law discussion, my point remains. I would love to see someone point out a justice that has publicly stated they want to overturn the 2nd.

This was in respect to your statement, that the court was one crazy liberal away from doing away with the 2nd Amendment all together. I am not asking to show where all 4 state such a strong opinion, just one - anywhere.

Sure, there are hardcore liberals that occupy seats that are out on that ledge asking to do away with it, same as there are wingbats asking to do away with the 14th (probably the single most significant amendment).

[d2bets]

Democrats are talking proposing Medicare for all program if ACA is struck down. Like I said Republicans - be careful what you wish for because you might get it. The mandate was a Republican idea. Republicans turned against it when Democrats started saying it sounded OK.

[Sam Odom]

"be careful what you wish for because you might get it."


I hope so... I want the US Constitution to be followed. Dont you ??

[Tully Mars 63]

"be careful what you wish for because you might get it."


I hope so... I want the US Constitution to be followed. Dont you ??

If it were clear as day there'd be no need for a SCOTUS.

[Sam Odom]

If it were clear as day there'd be no need for a SCOTUS.

Tomorrow it will be clearer to more people

[Tully Mars 63]

Tomorrow it will be clearer to more people

It's completely possible the court could punt the main issue and basically say "no one's been force to buy anything yet" get back to us when that happens.

Would that make you happy?

[Sam Odom]

It's completely possible the court could punt the main issue and basically say "no one's been force to buy anything yet" get back to us when that happens.

Would that make you happy?

Might be the right thing to do. Usually there has to be an aggrieved party

some say there is already an aggrieved party in lawyer speak

[Tully Mars 63]

Might be the right thing to do. Usually there has to be an aggrieved party

some say there is already an aggrieved party in lawyer speak

I have no insight in what they might do but I am expecting the unexpected.

I also think both sides are reading the possible out comes incorrectly. Both sides seem to think if the court sides with them it's a no brainer win. I disagree. It's and election year... losing might actually help your party more. The get out the vote on the right would go through the roof if the mandate is up held. If the mandate goes down the left will rally. The same thing just sort of happened with Az Im. ruling, the Dems won 3 of 4 of it but lost the biggy. Money started pouring in to the Az Dem party the next day and Dem voter reg. ticked up as well.

The health care issue effects far more people then immigration.

[andywend]

That is not actually totally accurate .. the polls that the Republicans keep shouting and screaming about also show a portion of people "against Obamacare" who .. like me .. would like to scrap the bill .. and then pass an even stronger version of the bill which gives us a 100% government controlled healthcare option.

So while the Republicans may shout and scream that most are against .. in fact .. more people would rather have the bill as it stands right now .. than no version of the bill at all.

This is going to be another public policy decision where the Republicans are jumping up and down and calling for a version of something when they are in fact ... in a minority ...

The democrats have been trying to get socialized medicine passed for over 50 years and the American people continue to come out strongly AGAINST it.

Obama and the democrats stuffing ObamaCare down the throats of the American people who clearly did NOT want it is the main reason why the democrats got THRASHED in the 2010 mid-terms just 2 short years after being given a total mandate at the voting booth in 2008.

Its always a mistake to take anything a liberal democrat says at face value. Only the loony left-wing wants socialized medicine with everyone else strongly against it.

[andywend]

If you get really sick, would you rather have the current system as it stands (quality healthcare at a high cost) or a government run socialized system where the majority of hospitals will resemble county type clinics.

85%-90% of Americans have some form of medical insurance and very few of these people ever complain about the quality of healthcare they receive. They only complain about the cost of the escalating medical insurance premiums, co-payments/deductibles, etc.

Severely lowering the quality of healthcare to save money is ABSOLUTELY INSANE. I wish there was a way to give all liberal democrats the socialized medical care system they so strongly desire while leaving the current high quality medical care system currently in place for only republicans to use.

This way, the average democratic voter would live many years less than the republican voter.

Wouldn't that be a "win-win" scenario!!!

[jw]

The democrats have been trying to get socialized medicine passed for over 50 years and the American people continue to come out strongly AGAINST it.

Nope .. money from big business has come out against it ... there is less money to be made if a government option passes.

Obama and the democrats stuffing ObamaCare down the throats of the American people who clearly did NOT want it is the main reason why the democrats got THRASHED in the 2010 mid-terms just 2 short years after being given a total mandate at the voting booth in 2008.

Its always a mistake to take anything a liberal democrat says at face value. Only the loony left-wing wants socialized medicine with everyone else strongly against it.

.. and once again you are wrong .. more people want what we have right now .. or legislation that goes further .. than those who want a total repeal and to go back to where we were .. your spin might work for the small minded Right wing nutjobs that you surround yourself with .. but step out of your comfort zone and you will find people who don't agree with you.

If you get really sick, would you rather have the current system as it stands (quality healthcare at a high cost) or a government run socialized system where the majority of hospitals will resemble county type clinics.

If I were to get really sick .. i'd be on the first plane back to the UK ..

I wish there was a way to give all liberal democrats the socialized medical care system they so strongly desire while leaving the current high quality medical care system currently in place for only republicans to use.

There is .. and they have this system in the UK .. though your ignorance and arrogance on the subject do not seem to allow you to admit that people can have views that don;t agree with yours and yet the views they have can also be valid ...

In the UK .. as well as the government run system .. there is also a "private" system .. pay a little extra each month and you can get to see the exact same doctors that will treat you on the government run system ... only you can get an appointment a few days earlier, you can get a private room with cable tv and a choice of meals .. etc etc ...

A government run system working side by side a private system .. not exactly re-inventing the wheel, but it works, and it works very, very well.


Maybe you should try and research the system you so hate so much Mr Wend .. you might actually learn something.

[brooks85]

Nope .. money from big business has come out against it ... there is less money to be made if a government option passes.




.. and once again you are wrong .. more people want what we have right now .. or legislation that goes further .. than those who want a total repeal and to go back to where we were .. your spin might work for the small minded Right wing nutjobs that you surround yourself with .. but step out of your comfort zone and you will find people who don't agree with you.



If I were to get really sick .. i'd be on the first plane back to the UK ..



There is .. and they have this system in the UK .. though your ignorance and arrogance on the subject do not seem to allow you to admit that people can have views that don;t agree with yours and yet the views they have can also be valid ...

In the UK .. as well as the government run system .. there is also a "private" system .. pay a little extra each month and you can get to see the exact same doctors that will treat you on the government run system ... only you can get an appointment a few days earlier, you can get a private room with cable tv and a choice of meals .. etc etc ...

A government run system working side by side a private system .. not exactly re-inventing the wheel, but it works, and it works very, very well.


Maybe you should try and research the system you so hate so much Mr Wend .. you might actually learn something.

here is a great idea everybody, lets see what jw thinks. The person who doesn't even know why healthcare cost were rising in the first place.



Everyone is going to have fun waiting to see the doctor if the right decision isn't made.

[d2bets]

It's completely possible the court could punt the main issue and basically say "no one's been force to buy anything yet" get back to us when that happens.

Would that make you happy?

I hear you, but if that was the case then why would they have heard the case now at all? Pretty insane from a practical standpoint to have spent all the time and work on the case only to say come back to us in 18 months and we'll do it all over again. I don't think that's going to happen.

[d2bets]

"be careful what you wish for because you might get it."


I hope so... I want the US Constitution to be followed. Dont you ??

Right, so they'll fix it and follow the Constitution by instead creating single payer funded by taxes. Everyone agrees that's the more Constitutional alternative. Will you prefer that?

[Sam Odom]

Will you prefer that?

You would be shocked as to what Sammy Odom thinks should happen with Healthcare

I believe some sort of phased-in single payer/'Medicare for all' & merge Medicaid into Medicare is the solution - cannot crash the health Ins industry overnight


Just an idea , not saying it is workable but ---> begin with 'Medicare for all' for prenatal - 18yo (gap) then 55yo Up. Start closing the 'gap' gradually over X number of years.


.

[d2bets]

I believe some sort of phased-in single payer/'Medicare for all' & merge Medicaid into Medicare is the solution - cannot crash the health Ins industry overnight


Just an idea , not saying it is workable but ---> begin with 'Medicare for all' for prenatal - 18yo (gap) then 55yo Up. Start closing the 'gap' gradually over X number of years.

Fair enough. I'd be good with pairing that with allowing those in the gap optionally to buy into medicare, regardless of pre-existing conditions. Kind of like the government option.

[convick]

Its always a mistake to take anything a liberal democrat says at face value. Only the loony left-wing wants socialized medicine with everyone else strongly against it.

Thats a pretty stupid blanket statement to make. Im a loony leftist and I want no part of this. I know others with similar political leanings have the same opinion.

[Sam Odom]

convick , TRUE Liberals opposed to ObamaBots hate what ObamaCare turned into...

[d2bets]

Anyone know what time the ruling is expected to be announced tomorrow?

[andywend]

Thats a pretty stupid blanket statement to make. Im a loony leftist and I want no part of this. I know others with similar political leanings have the same opinion.

convick, considering you're an admitted "loony leftist", I would guess that you oppose ObamaCare because you don't think it goes far enough.

If you are against socialized medicine in its entirety and want to keep the current medical care system exactly as is, then I'll retract my previous statement.

[Tully Mars 63]

I hear you, but if that was the case then why would they have heard the case now at all? Pretty insane from a practical standpoint to have spent all the time and work on the case only to say come back to us in 18 months and we'll do it all over again. I don't think that's going to happen.

Well they're hearing arguments on more then one issue and even if they opt to hear a one issue case, say death penalty, doesn't mean they're going to over rule the lower court. They could easily rule on all issues but the mandate and then punt. Or they could up hold the whole damn thing. On several cases the SCOTUS has sided with Congress and the lower courts, meaning they heard the case but chose not to over turn it. Two cases come to mind- Gonzales vs. Raich and United States v. Comstock the court ruled that congress has the right under the commerce clause to over rule states (medical MJ) and ruled broad interpretation to Congress’s authority to pass legislation that it considers “necessary and proper.” Health care is something like 15-18% of GDP, depending on your source. Maybe they'll consider congresses actions “necessary and proper.”

I still think they over turn at least the mandate but really I wouldn't place money anywhere near this and I still expect something really unexpected. What that is... I have no idea.

We'll out find out soon... then I expect a whole lot of bitching.

[Tully Mars 63]

Anyone know what time the ruling is expected to be announced tomorrow?

I want to say 10am Eastern, but I could be wrong.

[Sam Odom]

T-Minus 59 minutes and counting

[Tully Mars 63]

T-Minus 59 minutes and counting

They have 3 (?) rulings due today... any bets that this will be the last one they issue?

[Sam Odom]

Tully , the universe is not static

[Tully Mars 63]

Tully , the universe is not static

I was out until 2 and didn't crash until nearly 4... I'm sorry I don't get your point here. Could you clarify? If not I'll drink some more coffee and nurse this headache and re-read in a while.

[opie1988]

Any civilization that doesn't feel that it is imperative to care of it's peoples' health needs is a savage society to begin with. Wouldn't be surprised if ObamaCare gets dismantled entirely.....it's not like this nation is selfless or mature.

Listen to this fukkin idiot.

What would you possibly know, kid? You should be thankful that your parents were allowed into this country instead of trying to act like a 21 year old that actually knows anything.