Dwight Howard and Deron Williams want to join the Miami Heat! WTF?!?!

[Goat Milk]

Pip was an 18, 6 and 7 guy to go on top of his great d that first yr they won a ring.. also had a solid big in grant as well as phil jackson... not one to argue lebron anywhere near jordan yet, as he is too young still.... but he never had a pippen or a shaq, so its tough to judge based on rings. Talent wise, kobe was ever as good as lebron is right now. If lebron goes on to win 4/5 rings along with 5/6 league mvps, it will be a great argument between him and mj

Scottie Pippen is better than Wade right now, but when Wade retires it probably won't be close. Wade's average in the NBA finals over the last 3 series' speaks for itself. He's one of the greatest guards of all time.

[Goat Milk]

Jordan was a monster. The guy could get any look he wanted at any time, in his prime. Plus MJ played in a era that someone driving to the hoop could just get crushed and there wouldn't be an instant flagrant or ejection.

I agree though, it should be interesting in LBJ's career when he can't rely on his athletic ability as much.

I'm tired of people thinking Jordan played in a much more physical era. Yeah it was a little more physical, but Jordan got every fukkin call so it didn't matter. You couldn't touch Jordan after he won his 1st ring.

[lakerboy]

Jordan was god goat. It will always be that way. Tell lebron how to hit a fadeaway.

[Goat Milk]

Jordan was god goat. It will always be that way. Tell lebron how to hit a fadeaway.

Bryant shall show him how its done during the Olympics. Lebron will develop that eventually. He will be slow in 5 years but will still be 270

[Pabinator]

I hope this happens

[nyplayer33]

kobe over James in his prime...umm..NOOOOO

[jjgold]

Kobe has played with great players and great big men

Lebron no
Hard to compare

[Goat Milk]

Gold stop spitting nonsense. Bryant played with Shaq yeah but he won rings with Gasol. Pau Gasol will be lucky to make the hall of fame. Wade is already guaranteed even if he retires today. Lebron's squad is much better. Bryant won b2b rings with gasol and a bunch of scrubs.

[ChalkyDog]

Nothing but a trolling attempt

The truth:

[Sportsbetting123]

This would never happen anyway.

[daimoshokage]

Nothing but a trolling attempt

The truth:

What a fukking idiot.. James has a ring at age 27.. Idiot!

Give me lebron over jordan anytime of the day!

100% sure that Jordan's best team couldn't even beat OKC.. and James spanked them in the ass in a 4-1 series win.. fukking dumbfukk..

[ChalkyDog]

What a fukking idiot.. James has a ring at age 27.. Idiot!

Give me lebron over jordan anytime of the day!

100% sure that Jordan's best team couldn't even beat OKC.. and James spanked them in the ass in a 4-1 series win.. fukking dumbfukk..

Nah broseph, he doesn't have a ring until ring day happens next season. The graphic above stands for a few months or so.

He has a trophy, a few trophies. No rings. Except the one he got his ugly wife - had to marry the bitch because he went to Miami. He has that ring.

[dlunc3]

Gold stop spitting nonsense. Bryant played with Shaq yeah but he won rings with Gasol. Pau Gasol will be lucky to make the hall of fame. Wade is already guaranteed even if he retires today. Lebron's squad is much better. Bryant won b2b rings with gasol and a bunch of scrubs.

Exactly, he has had either shaq or pau his whole career. Without them, he couldn't get past the first round. Now that Lebron has a sidekick, he is in the finals every yr... Give lebon shaq or pau and he has just as many if not more bc he never woulda run shaq out of town

[The Kraken]

Thread locked

[pepero428]

playing baseball because he was about to be suspended for his degenerate gambling

Don't care how great Jordan was, he was a pure scumbag and still is

yeah betting on himself to cover

[pepero428]

Exactly, he has had either shaq or pau his whole career. Without them, he couldn't get past the first round. Now that Lebron has a sidekick, he is in the finals every yr... Give lebon shaq or pau and he has just as many if not more bc he never woulda run shaq out of town

Yup pretty much and add this one too

Jordan without his sidekick didn't win a ring, every player has needed a sidekick

"Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs."

[ThaTopMoron]

kids who say LeBron will end up just as good or better than MJ were clearly 6 years old or younger when MJ played his last game as a Bull

there isn't even any reason to try to defend Jordan. doesn't need to be done.

[dlunc3]

kids who say LeBron will end up just as good or better than MJ were clearly 6 years old or younger when MJ played his last game as a Bull

there isn't even any reason to try to defend Jordan. doesn't need to be done.

noone is saying he will be as good... just saying that if he wins 5 rings and 6 mvps, he will have to be in the discussion if he continues to dominate like he is now.. and that can't be argued

[Goat Milk]

Exactly, he has had either shaq or pau his whole career. Without them, he couldn't get past the first round. Now that Lebron has a sidekick, he is in the finals every yr... Give lebon shaq or pau and he has just as many if not more bc he never woulda run shaq out of town

Lebron would have never won with Gasol. Bryant is a ruthless leader--he pushed Gasol. Did you know Gasol made the playoffs like 2 3 times while in Memphis and got swept in the first round everytime? I'm pretty sure about that.

Without Shaq/Pau, Bryant was left with Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and SMUSH PARKER in the STARTING lineup. Where are those guys today? Bryant had 81 in a season. Will never be done in modern ball. Outscored 1 team byhimself after 3 quarters, the Dallas Mavs who I believe finished with one of the best records ever that year??? He lost to PHX in 7 one of those years, who were a way better team.

Jordan couldn't even get a .500 record without pippen even 1 time. Bryant got over .500 in the western conference with the worst starting lineup in playoff history.

LOL Pau Gasol is not even a hall of famer. Bynum sat his ass on the bench for 1 of those rings and the majority of the 2nd run. Bryant's 3rd best player was Lamar Odom. Lebron has one of the greatest in nba history on his team.

That's like saying who did Shaq win with? He played with 2 of the top 5 guards ever to play the game. Why don't people say that?

[/B]
"Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs."

Did you get that quote from that thread I made?

[big0mar]

I think on paper there are always guys that will look better that aren't. I would ask the MJ debaters this... If you put MJ's Bulls and Shaq/Kobe Lakers and this Heat in the playoffs now, who would come out?

One thing I remember about the Bulls, and is something I personally haven't seen since, is the killer instinct. Skills and physical gifts that you can put down on paper is something athletes are always getting better at but that killer instinct was something different. I don't mean the final 24 seconds or even two minutes of a game. It's the way the Bulls treated the whole game like the last two minutes. Basketball is a game of runs but the bulls managed them like no other team. I'd love to see a stat on runs of X points or more against big teams over the years.

There was a calmness and confidence that if the Bulls played their game, they'd eventually outlast their opponent. No one worried that MJ was going to go all-in when the score looked bad and start jackin up 25 foot threes or go out of the control to the rim and complain he didnt get a phantom call. The game almost never got out of hand. When someone dove out of bounds into the third row, they knew the possession wasn't going to be squandered in the heat of the moment and they were giving up their body for a play that would mean something. You don't see that today. Maybe some San Antonio teams have played with that control but of course without the Bulls talent.

The problem is that people want to attribute the Bulls' success to Jordan alone. Why is their calmness a reflection of Jordan necessarily? Why can't it be because of Phil Jackson? If you swapped LeBron for Jordan, would the Heat have those same characteristics as the Bulls? I doubt it. Would the Bulls have the same characteristics as they did with Jordan? I doubt it. Team success is usually the result of synergy amongst many different forces. The Bulls were a dynasty because they had many great forces, Jordan included. But its folly to say that Jordan was the driving force.

Personally I'm never a fan of these type of comparisons. Trying to compare LeBron to Jordan is silly.

[dlunc3]

Lebron would have never won with Gasol. Bryant is a ruthless leader--he pushed Gasol. Did you know Gasol made the playoffs like 2 3 times while in Memphis and got swept in the first round everytime? I'm pretty sure about that.

Without Shaq/Pau, Bryant was left with Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and SMUSH PARKER in the STARTING lineup. Where are those guys today? Bryant had 81 in a season. Will never be done in modern ball. Outscored 1 team byhimself after 3 quarters, the Dallas Mavs who I believe finished with one of the best records ever that year??? He lost to PHX in 7 one of those years, who were a way better team.

Jordan couldn't even get a .500 record without pippen even 1 time. Bryant got over .500 in the western conference with the worst starting lineup in playoff history.

LOL Pau Gasol is not even a hall of famer. Bynum sat his ass on the bench for 1 of those rings and the majority of the 2nd run. Bryant's 3rd best player was Lamar Odom. Lebron has one of the greatest in nba history on his team.

That's like saying who did Shaq win with? He played with 2 of the top 5 guards ever to play the game. Why don't people say that?



Did you get that quote from that thread I made?

you are joking right? lebron took a starting lineup with drew gooden, pavlovic, big z and larry hughes to the finals... you don't think he does the same and wins it with andrew bynum, pau gasol, ron artist, lamar odom, act???? cmon now.. lebron took garbage teams past the first round regularly... kobe couldn't do it without all stars next to him

lebron is sitting on 6+ rings if he had been in LA since 1999

[dlunc3]

kobe has a better jumper and better post up game then lebron... thats about it... kobes prime doesn't compare to lebron right now. Kobe has been the second best player in the nba his whole career... first behind shaq, then duncan, then lebron... lebron has been the best in the league since 2004... I might give kobe 1 year at being the best in the league.. thats about it. The guy is an all time great no doubt. But put him on those cleveland teams lebron was on, he would be sitting on 0 rings just like lebron was. The guy benefited from a large market team with the best coach of all time surrounded by all stars

[Bill Dozer]

I think on paper there are always guys that will look better that aren't. I would ask the MJ debaters this... If you put MJ's Bulls and Shaq/Kobe Lakers and this Heat in the playoffs now, who would come out?

One thing I remember about the Bulls, and is something I personally haven't seen since, is the killer instinct. Skills and physical gifts that you can put down on paper is something athletes are always getting better at but that killer instinct was something different. I don't mean the final 24 seconds or even two minutes of a game. It's the way the Bulls treated the whole game like the last two minutes. Basketball is a game of runs but the bulls managed them like no other team. I'd love to see a stat on runs of X points or more against big teams over the years.

There was a calmness and confidence that if the Bulls played their game, they'd eventually outlast their opponent. No one worried that MJ was going to go all-in when the score looked bad and start jackin up 25 foot threes or go out of the control to the rim and complain he didnt get a phantom call. The game almost never got out of hand. When someone dove out of bounds into the third row, they knew the possession wasn't going to be squandered in the heat of the moment and they were giving up their body for a play that would mean something. You don't see that today. Maybe some San Antonio teams have played with that control but of course without the Bulls talent.

The problem is that people want to attribute the Bulls' success to Jordan alone. Why is their calmness a reflection of Jordan necessarily? Why can't it be because of Phil Jackson? If you swapped LeBron for Jordan, would the Heat have those same characteristics as the Bulls? I doubt it. Would the Bulls have the same characteristics as they did with Jordan? I doubt it. Team success is usually the result of synergy amongst many different forces. The Bulls were a dynasty because they had many great forces, Jordan included. But its folly to say that Jordan was the driving force.

Personally I'm never a fan of these type of comparisons. Trying to compare LeBron to Jordan is silly.

Not only do I personally think if Jordan was on the Heat today that they would have those characteristics but the whole league would behave differently. He (and the guys before him) shaped the way athletes everywhere handled themselves. I remember when Stackhouse got in the league and started talking trash which few did then. He played the Bulls and was quiet for the next ten years. Lebron doesn't dance at the foul line or hold a press conference as a free agent if Jordan is in the league. There wasnt much screaming when players dunked the ball during Chicago's era. No chest pounding. Maybe the Knicks before they got beat each yr. When the best player in the league makes the play of the game and doesn't get excited because he expects to win, it affects the rest of the team. That team affects other teams. Blame it on the kids coming out early or getting told how awesome they are in HS, but their experiences made different people which meant different team identities.

[Goat Milk]

kobe has a better jumper and better post up game then lebron... thats about it... kobes prime doesn't compare to lebron right now. Kobe has been the second best player in the nba his whole career... first behind shaq, then duncan, then lebron... lebron has been the best in the league since 2004... I might give kobe 1 year at being the best in the league.. thats about it. The guy is an all time great no doubt. But put him on those cleveland teams lebron was on, he would be sitting on 0 rings just like lebron was. The guy benefited from a large market team with the best coach of all time surrounded by all stars

Every all time great would tell you Bryant is a top 5 player of all time, even Shaq. Barkley was hesitant to put him in the top 10 3 years ago, then he won b2b, and Barkley said "Bryant is a top 5 player of all time." Magic Johnson and Jerry West both said he's the greatest Laker ever. I don't think Duncan would even put himself ahead of Bryant.

You are mistaken on a few things. Bryant was widely recognized as the best player in the league for several years. How quickly people forget he averaged 35.5 points per game in a season (when has that been done in modern ball since Jordan?). Bryant holds all time records for most all nba 1st teams and defensive first teams and will break all those records by the time he retires guaranteed. Scored 81. Not to mention the MVP was ripped from him that season because of the rape trial.

Lebron made it to the finals when the pistons were on the decline, the celtics hadn't formed, the heat were completely falling apart after their championship, etc. The East was as weak as its been ever. Why do you think he got swept.

Lebron has been the best in the league since 04? LOL that must be a joke. That was his 2nd season in the NBA.....I don't even think he was on the all nba first team in 2004.

By the way, Shaq is a good 10-15 slots lower than Bryant in terms of all time ranks. Shaq was crumbling during his 16th year in the league while Kobe Bryant is leading the NBA in scoring...

[dlunc3]

Ok, which seasons was kobe the best in the league? I'mthinking 1 or 2 tops... And how many rings do you think he has if he switched places with Lebron and spent his career in Cleveland? Which yrs would he have won? Since his success wasn't dependant on coaching or stars around him?

[Goat Milk]

Ok, which seasons was kobe the best in the league? I'mthinking 1 or 2 tops... And how many rings do you think he has if he switched places with Lebron and spent his career in Cleveland? Which yrs would he have won? Since his success wasn't dependant on coaching or stars around him?

Kobe was the best player in the league from 03 to 08. Kobe carried the Lakers to the finals that 04 season when they had Malone and Gary. The next two years, he went on to put up numbers like we've only seen since Jordan. When Jordan played without Pippen, he was able to average 37 a game I believe, but also failed to get a .500 record and was knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.

Similarly, Kobe put up 35.4 ppg in the West with a worse supporting cast. He made the playoffs and took a great PHX team to 7 games, putting up unreal numbers that year in the playoffs in the process. How can you be expected to win with Smush Parker Luke Walton and Kwame Brown in the starting lineup? Kobe was robbed of the MVP that season because of the rape, and it went to Nash who clearly didn't deserve it.

No, Bryant would not have won a championship with Lebron's Cleveland squad. Jordan wouldn't have. No one would have. Lebron's accomplishment of getting to the finals was tarnished by the aforementioned reasoning about the EC at the time, which explains why the Spurs swept.

Bryant's third best player for his b2b rings was Odom. That's saying something. What he did against the celtics in 2010 was unforgettable. Even in the closeout game, he shot horribly, he came up with 15 boards and shut down ray allen. The Celtics were a superior team and LA won on the will of Bryant.

Since 2008, Lebron has taken over as the best player in the league. 16th season and leading the league in scoring for 95% of the season. No one in nba history has come even close to that. Can you imagine a 20 year vet in the league putting up 25 5 and 5? Kobe will be the first in history to do it.