This is why I am in favor of the "NEW WORLD ORDER"!!!

slacker00 · 10-08-08, 07:39 PM

Neat idea. Here's where I disagree, taken from the site:

"Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge. By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary."

Some of the greediest people are the ones with millions already in the bank. Look at Wall Street. You'd think they have little to worry about scarcity, yet they seemingly just starve for more and more.

ShamsWoof10 · 10-08-08, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by slacker00

Neat idea. Here's where I disagree, taken from the site:

"Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge. By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary."

Some of the greediest people are the ones with millions already in the bank. Look at Wall Street. You'd think they have little to worry about scarcity, yet they seemingly just starve for more and more.

I agree with your example and I would "imagine" they include them in with both "crime" and "greed" but if money had no meaning then there would be no reason to commit these crimes as the site stated...

slacker00 · 10-08-08, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by ShamsWoof10

I agree with your example and I would "imagine" they include them in with both "crime" and "greed" but if money had no meaning then there would be no reason to commit these crimes as the site stated...

Even if there's some kind of ban on money or any concept of barter, there's still "value" and "commodities". I mean, are you going to somehow ban people from building mansions or owning gold and diamonds? People will always hoard things they perceive to have value. Even if you have laws and an extremely restrictive society in terms of building wealth, there will always be a "black market" and constant pressure by some to acquire wealth. No matter what kind of society of "plenty" that you build, there are some that will always want more.

ShamsWoof10 · 10-08-08, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by slacker00

Even if there's some kind of ban on money or any concept of barter, there's still "value" and "commodities". I mean, are you going to somehow ban people from building mansions or owning gold and diamonds? People will always hoard things they perceive to have value. Even if you have laws and an extremely restrictive society in terms of building wealth, there will always be a "black market" and constant pressure by some to acquire wealth. No matter what kind of society of "plenty" that you build, there are some that will always want more.

There wouldn't have to be a BAN per say... They can over time make it out dated... I am "assuming" bio-metric money will be the last step before money itself is gone...

People can be programmed and re-programmed to have or change their beliefs and desires so although greed may seem like a natural thing I don't believe it is absolute...

Also consider this...as for the "gold and diamonds" you mentioned a very important word after that which is "perceive"... They only have value because the system says so... Take the example of the Island on the site... Gold and Diamonds are meanningless there because it's assumed no one else is on the island that has anything to help with survival... Wealth is acquired to use for things like housing, food, and clothes amoung other things... If those are provided "equally in quality" with no fear of not having it provided then what good is storing wealth and wouldn't wealth be redefined at that point..?

This is global socialism of course and a star trek like society... When do you ever hear about them getting a "pay check" in Star Trek..?

I'll give you credit... at least you read through the site...

tacomax · 10-08-08, 08:28 PM

If there's no money, how can I buy a family of holograms?

slacker00 · 10-08-08, 08:31 PM

When you start talking about people being programmed, it starts to sound spooky. If that's your answer to how to build a perfect society, then the rest is irrelevent.

ShamsWoof10 · 10-08-08, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by slacker00

When you start talking about people being programmed, it starts to sound spooky. If that's your answer to how to build a perfect society, then the rest is irrelevent.

Well ok let's leave the issue of programming aside then although it is a key element...

Why does it sound spooky..? It's not only clear but it's even titled that... Why is TV called "programming".?? You really don't need to go much further then to look at how much effort companies put into selling a product... How many times do you see someone famous start a style/trend and people copy it..? TV is even more powerful because it can add glamour to damn near anything...

It's not MY answer it's what I believe is being done and I just agree with it...

As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated. Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. The most valuable, untapped resource today is human ingenuity.

The bold makes perfect sense... Why the f*ck use resources to make many differant versions of the same model of a product and many simliar products..? It's stupid...

slacker00 · 10-08-08, 08:59 PM

TV programming isn't intended to mean that it is programming people to behave in specified ways, although it does certainly affect human behavior. Everything affects human behavior, where you work, what you eat, even the air you breathe. TV programming is very different than the programming you are talking about. I don't think there is a TV program that can program an entire society to stop being greedy. I think it is too deeply built into human behavior. There will always be that push for "what else is out there".

In regard to your second point, people do like having choices. People like control. People like control of their own lives. People like to be in control of their environment. It's animalistic, similar to why various animals are territorial, it's survival instinct built in. If you start "reprogramming" these instincts out of human beings, how human will they still be?

WileOut · 10-08-08, 09:05 PM

You can't get rid of greed through any means. Greed is an inbred human tendency. No matter how much money you get you will always want more.

etothep · 10-08-08, 09:45 PM

?

Originally posted by WileOut

You can't get rid of greed through any means. Greed is an inbred human tendency. No matter how much money you get you will always want more.

I would love to be the subject of that experiment.

WileOut · 10-08-08, 09:47 PM

If somebody gave you 10 million you would be content with that for years. But after a while it would all become just like it was before you had the 10 million and you would want more.

ShamsWoof10 · 10-08-08, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by slacker00

TV programming isn't intended to mean that it is programming people to behave in specified ways, although it does certainly affect human behavior. Everything affects human behavior, where you work, what you eat, even the air you breathe. TV programming is very different than the programming you are talking about. I don't think there is a TV program that can program an entire society to stop being greedy. I think it is too deeply built into human behavior. There will always be that push for "what else is out there".

Well that may be but how else is it intended..? People as a whole don't like to feel as if they are being controlled or maniplulated so I would not expect you to agree with it... What else would you think "programming" means.? On one hand you do admit TV programming affects behavior but claim it's not intential... Could it be..? If TV programming is very differant then how I am talking about then please tell me the differance between the two... Keep in mind that when I say TV programs society I don't mean ONE SHOW is going to have a huge change... I mean the overall affect over time will have an affect...

Originally posted by slacker00

In regard to your second point, people do like having choices. People like control. People like control of their own lives. People like to be in control of their environment. It's animalistic, similar to why various animals are territorial, it's survival instinct built in. If you start "reprogramming" these instincts out of human beings, how human will they still be?

People do like control but simply thinking they have control is enough...

How human are humans now...? Most teenagers think blowing things up is cool... How human is UFC/MMA..? If you start them early enough they can be "programmed" to accept it... An example is the internet.... As a whole look at the age groups of the older population and the youth... Some of the older population don't trust the internet whereas there are not many youth who view it that way...

Why would someone be greedy over something that has no value relative to society..? If gold or paper is no longer valueble why would anyone collect it as they do now..? That is like collecting feathers because they were used as money a long time ago...

Imagine a society like Star Trek.. They don't get pay checks and there is greed for gaining knowledge and not paper and if that is your point I can see that... To catagorize greed as collecting paper with ink on it is, in reality, not relevent...

Originally posted by WileOut

If somebody gave you 10 million you would be content with that for years. But after a while it would all become just like it was before you had the 10 million and you would want more.

Not if 10 Million Dollars is worth nothing...

See you guys just can't imagine doing things just to do them or a society without money...

slacker00 · 10-09-08, 08:07 AM

Broadcast programming, or scheduling, is the practice of organizing television or radio programs in a daily, weekly, or season-long schedule. Modern broadcasters regularly change the scheduling of their programs to build an audience for a new show, retain that audience, or compete with other broadcasters' programs.
Television scheduling strategies are employed to give programs the best possible chance of attracting and retaining an audience. They are used to deliver programs to audiences when they are most likely to want to watch them and deliver audiences to advertisers in the composition that makes their advertising most likely to be effective (Ellis 2000 p.136).
At a micro level, scheduling is the minute planning of the transmission; what to broadcast and when, ensuring that every second of airtime is covered.

Broadcast programming - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_programming

Sure, advertisers would like to brainwash the audience to help sell product, but there's actually laws against that. I don't have a source handy, but in my media class years ago we talked about how there are strict rules about what can be done regarding psychological tricks that might be used over broadcast TV. Also consider how cigarettes and hard liquor cannot be advertised on TV. Those are just some examples. There is a definite moral dilemma about "brainwashing via TV" in our society. That's really where the debate begins. Is a brainwashed society really a step that we're willing to jump towards?

Also, if we're just going to magically "brainwash" everyone, then I think any social structure becomes viable. Let's just be communist, just brainwash everyone to not be corrupt and support the central government. Or lets be purely capitalistic and if our business fails, we can just line up at the incinerator because we are not of value to that society any longer. Brainwashing is a miracle fantasy cure, which I'm not sure it's even possible, not to mention the moral implications.

As for MMA being human, you're talking to the wrong guy. lmao. I grew up fighting like that within my family every day. It seems natural to me. I totally get what they are doing in the MMA. It's no different than the NFL or any other sport to me, I never even really think about it. Humans are animals and are born to compete within a social hierarchy. Physical confrontation is the most basic way to establish a pecking order. I'm more interested in what kind of situation you grew up within where these things seem foreign to you. Were you an only child?