Any thoughts on Chess World Championship match?

[Cookie Monster]

Anand is now -320 at Pinny, looks like a good value. When Gelfand won the candidates matches (thusly becoming the challenger) I thought line would be -500 or so.

Gelfand is obviously a very though match player, he beat Kramnik in a match many years ago. Even if his tournament results are not so great (in part due to giving to many draws to lower players), he usually has held his own against the top players. In this regard he is a perfect pupil of his early trainer, Tigran Petrosian.

For big events Gelfand is always very well prepared. I remember in a world cup match, a frustrated Kamsky down 1 point to Gelfand, playing in the next-to-last game a toothless offbeat opening with white. After the game Kamsky said "Gelfand is so ridiculously well prepared, that this was my best option".

But Anand matches well with Gelfand. His opening preparation is also legendary. And he is regarded by many as the best rapid player ever. So, in the event of a tied match, Anand would be a clear favorite in the rapid tiebreak.

The first game was a surprise. Gelfand playing a Grunfeld defense? Someone may remember Kasparov in the 2nd game match vs Kramnik in 2000, playing the Grunfeld and getting crushed. After the game, Kasparov said Gelfand surely helped Kramnik with his analysis vs the Grunfeld. So, Gelfand, one of the foremost players of the white side of the Grunfeld, now plays it with black? Really a surprise, and Anand got nothing in the first game.

Anyone in SBR follows chess? I remember Mathy posting some insight on the Anand - Topalov match.

[ChalkyDog]

Anand to the bank.

[ChalkyDog]

Is there a place where I can bet on individual games? Or is this just the series?

[ChalkyDog]

Anyone? Anyone?!

C'mon. Anand is easy money here. Gelfand plays to the draw far too often, and that doesn't fly in this venue. Anand is the new Kasperov, he has amazing attacks. I also think he is patient enough to take what is given to him, and wont over do it to a disadvantage.

In a match where one win is usually decides it, Gelfand is not it.

I have won a lot of money playing chess. A couple USCF points from the "Expert" ranking. Everyone knows that Anand is the big dick now.

[Boscoe]

any us facing books offer lines on this?

[Cookie Monster]

Pinny has a 3-way line on each game, usually posted a few hours before game time. I remember some euro books have them too, just checked and for next game Bwin has Gelfand +320, Draw -222, Anand +420.

Anand is a living legend, but his time at the top is ending, as he is already 41 years old. I think Aronian or Carlsen would beat him in 2 years, if any of them challenge for the world championship.

[ChalkyDog]

I really like Aronian, generally.

I never thought I'd see Kasperov fall. Basically obsessed with the guy during my youth. Yet here Anand is.

While I can't say with much specificity a lot about Gelfand, I do not think he has it.

-222 for the draw is moderately annoying, but it's the safest bet on the board. I think you could be + over the series by simply betting draw 2 to 1 against.

[FindTheLock]

when Anand is playing with the black pieces then bet on the draw. When Anand has white bet on him to win. Gelfand is a strong GM, but Anand is the best at this moment. A lot of younger guys coming up to challenge him though in the near future.

[FindTheLock]

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ezsea...and+vs+gelfand anand holds a 6-5 lead with 27 draws against gelfand under classical time controls. They might draw the majority of their games so betting on this match up is tough to profit on. Draws are going to have heavy juice.

[Underdog5229]

do they stream this?

[FindTheLock]

http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm/ you can watch it with Grand master analysis

[ChalkyDog]

Bump. Trying to keep this at the top so Chess can be of main topic here at SBR. Give these fools some culture.

[FindTheLock]

Anand's style is similar to the way Fischer played. He is very aggressive and has a wide array of opening and end game knowledge with a strong base in tactical positions. Also like fischer, anand is a very quick thinker which often leads to anand having massive advantages on the clock in the later stages of games. Gelfand plays a more passive style with less aggressive tendencies, but Gelfand is infamous for his preparation before matches. Anand is known to take more risks than gelfand but anand usually calculates those risks to such a fine degree that he ends up shocking even the strongest players with how quickly he can find an advantage in a seemingly drawish position. I only have a rating of a little over 2000, so both of these guys would kick my ass in a game.

[ChalkyDog]

Anand's style is similar to the way Fischer played. He is very aggressive and has a wide array of opening and end game knowledge with a strong base in tactical positions. Also like fischer, anand is a very quick thinker which often leads to anand having massive advantages on the clock in the later stages of games. Gelfand plays a more passive style with less aggressive tendencies, but Gelfand is infamous for his preparation before matches. Anand is known to take more risks than gelfand but anand usually calculates those risks to such a fine degree that he ends up shocking even the strongest players with how quickly he can find an advantage in a seemingly drawish position. I only have a rating of a little over 2000, so both of these guys would kick my ass in a game.

Awesome.

I heard that. I went to the Las Vegas Open a few years ago, and didn't want to play in the u2000. So I enrolled in the open section. Played 2 IM's in that thing, they kicked my ass. Ended up with 1 out of 6 that year. One lucky win vs. a kid.

I will say that my sole win over a GM was in a blitz tourney. Felt really, really god - albeit, not exactly a "solid" win.

The small Asian kids have my number. I can't remember the last time I beat one.

[FindTheLock]

Awesome.

I heard that. I went to the Las Vegas Open a few years ago, and didn't want to play in the u2000. So I enrolled in the open section. Played 2 IM's in that thing, they kicked my ass. Ended up with 1 out of 6 that year. One lucky win vs. a kid.

I will say that my sole win over a GM was in a blitz tourney. Felt really, really god - albeit, not exactly a "solid" win.

The small Asian kids have my number. I can't remember the last time I beat one.

I'm not active anymore in OTB tournaments, but I still play online from time to time. The open section has some very talented players, especially in a tournament held in vegas.. I played against GM Larry Christiansen and GM Yasser Seirawan online, and they both kicked my ass in less than 60 moves. I can hang around for a little bit, but GM's are too knowledgeable for me to have any success in the endgames.

[ChalkyDog]

I'm not active anymore in OTB tournaments, but I still play online from time to time. The open section has some very talented players, especially in a tournament held in vegas.. I played against GM Larry Christiansen and GM Yasser Seirawan online, and they both kicked my ass in less than 60 moves. I can hang around for a little bit, but GM's are too knowledgeable for me to have any success in the endgames.

Is this via ICC? I never got into that, tried a few times, well back in the day, and the community was a bit too frustrating for me. I stopped being actively involved in chess since my Senior year in College.

Played in a recent local tournament in Tucson not that long ago, and did real well, but that wasn't the strongest competition that day.

The problem I usually run into when I play against someone of the IM/GM caliber, is their nuanced knowledge. Their openings always turn into better positions by mid game, and it starts to crumble from there. Tactics are my bread and butter, so I am rather aggressive, and that does not work out well vs. those guys who have seen everything you got before, and most likely have an answer to it.

[mathdotcom]

Anand is my favorite player but I would not take him at worse than -300. Look at the record someone posted above. It's basically a coinflip between these two historically and Gelfand is a solid player. If Gelfand were Morozevich or someone wild then you're going to get fewer draws and Anand would probably win. But I can see Gelfand getting a win somewhere along the way and then drawing the rest easily.

And don't talk about motivation or whatever. If anything this favors Gelfand who knows this is his last shot to ever win it.

If today's game is any indication, it looks like Anand isn't getting very far with white either.

Mathy's fair line on the match after game 1 concluded [and Gelfand having an extra game with white]:

Anand -170
Gelfand +145

O/U Draws (incl game 1 draw):
Over 9 Draws -110
Under 9 Draws -110

[mighty maron]

While no one wants to lose the title as world chess champion, Anand would not have been broken hearted to lost against say the worlds #1 Magnus. Anand has made his money and gotten his world title after Kaspy retired. Now I can not see him putting in all that work in prep to retain the title.

Now Gelfand has yet to win the title...as seen in the opening prep today...he seems better. If you have a lot of bankroll and want to watch the match and plunk down a bet...take Gelfand...no means a lock

[kmarinouofm]

this already started ?

[mathdotcom]

Want to put 5k on Gelfand +282 but cannot pull trigger

[Cookie Monster]

I can take it for as many points as you want.

I see, if Gelfand scores first, he will draw quickly with white, and rely in his preparation for holding with black. But that is a slippery road, as Anand preparation is not a joke and he can unleash a nasty novelty and put Gelfand on the ropes. And a tiebreak is clearly favoring Anand. OTOH, if Anand wins first, it is a huge uphill climb for Gelfand. Even if he manages to pull of a hard fought win, he is still a clear underdog.

I know personally both players, and both are a class act. Anand is nice and always correct, while Gelfand is a humble and caring guy. I would love to see Gelfand career crowned with the biggest prize, but Anand is a bad style match for him. I can see Gelfand defeating Topalov, Morozevich or Aronian in a match, but a rapid wizard as Anand is a tall order.

I remember in the late 80s, when behind the two titans there was not a clear #3 in the world. Korchnoi was fading, Timman had no consistency, Yusupov never took the next step. Three young men were highly touted: Ivanchuk, Gelfand and Anand. Now, 25 years later and over 40 years old, Anand and Gelfand are playing for the World Championship, while Chucky has been playing a ton of games and still ranked #7. Oldies rule!!

[mathdotcom]

Yeah a bet on Gelfand is basically a bet on Gelfand -0.5. To me this bet comes down to Will Gelfand score a win first?

[mathdotcom]

Might go down as the most boring match in history, maybe even worse than Kramnik-Kasparov 2000.

[Cookie Monster]

Kramnik - Kasparov 2000 was boring over the board, but public were shocked for the fall of Kaspy. Kramnik - Leko was even more boring, redeemed only by the last game (which was not exciting, but kept the WC for Kramnik). Grischuk - Gelfand candidates final last year was ridiculous, as many Grischuk matches on that event.

[FindTheLock]

Gelfand plays to draw. He is not a gambling man.

[FindTheLock]

If this goes to rapid play anand is an overwhelming 10-1 with 18 draws against gelfand under those time controls.

[mathdotcom]

Not that I'm surprised but this is the most boring match I've ever seen

[yisman]

I only have a rating of a little over 2000, so both of these guys would kick my ass in a game.

I think it goes without saying that two of the top players in the world would beat you easily.

[FindTheLock]

5 out of 5 drawn. only 7 left for one of these guys to make a move and try to win this thing. Gelfand will have to start taking risks, because he won't want to go into rapid time controls against anand.

[shari91]

Can someone go onto the radio station link above and tell me what they hear broadcasting right now? It sounds like one guy's coaching another guy Yermo's in some match. And now Yermo went for a bathroom break. Am I at the right place?

[FindTheLock]

Can someone go onto the radio station link above and tell me what they hear broadcasting right now? It sounds like one guy's coaching another guy Yermo's in some match. And now Yermo went for a bathroom break. Am I at the right place?

if sign into ICC when the world championship is being played they have a board with the pieces on it and live commentary where the GM's go over potential moves that could occur in the later stages of the game. In order to sign in you have to DL the software called dasher 1.5.5. They give a free 7 day trial for new members.

[FindTheLock]

it looks sort of like this http://webcast.chessclub.com/WC2012/...D_preview.html but its live and the board is a different color when it's live.

[byronbb]

Might go down as the most boring match in history, maybe even worse than Kramnik-Kasparov 2000.

lol most boring chess match in history. Isnt chess the easiest of all sports to rig?

[mathdotcom]

This is absolutely terrible chess. I've never seen a match this dull. There should've been a rule implemented where if all 12 games are drawn the entire championship is forfeited and the next 2 qualifiers play for it.

When are chess organizers going to get some balls? Since the computer is without a doubt better than humans, they may as well play entertaining matches or chess will be completely done in 15 years.

[Cookie Monster]

Well, Gelfand finally drew first blood. A rather dull game, Anand was left with a bad bishop, and white knights penetrated easily.

Now things look bad for Anand, he has 3 chances left with white. What shall he play? In chessbookie (played with worthless tokens, but still solid parimutuel lines), Grunfeld is favored at +160, followed by Sicilian +171. After that, all other option are +1000 or higher (English, QGD, Petroff, etc).

In other things, chess matches of this level tend to be dull. Very few decided games in recent long mateches: Kasparov-Kramnik, Kramnik-Leko, Kramnik-Topalov, Kramnik-Anand, Anand-Topalov... I do not remember an exciting match recently. Only Topalov dinamic style made some lively moments, but he finally was defeated twice.