INTERESTING ARTICLE: HOW PLAYERS ARE LIMITED (Must read!)

[shari91]

Books do not hire people to go to especially when very little action bet on it

Duff85 hit the nail on the head

Did you bloody read what Duff posted? He said they pay external companies to provide the data. He also said they're hiring. I can only imagine it's because the job would be 1. tedious so people quit and 2. the amount of matches books offer keeps growing so they need a wider coverage. pellumb then confirmed his friend does this. Sits in the stands and phones in the info.

How the hell do you think books get the scores the millisecond after a player serves a point for a non televised - as in no cameras are allowed at all - tennis match with 13 people in the stands in Istanbul? Jo Jo the Psychic? Why when a woman player starts going apeshit at her coach or the ump or Querrey starts hitting balls into the stands does their odds suddenly plummet even if they're the massive favourites? I knew they had to have an "in" somehow but I wasn't sure how it worked until Duff and pellumb confirmed it. Someone is there feeding the books the scores and info you festering mince pie.

[pellumb341]

Books do not hire people to go to especially when very little action bet on it

The people who are sent get paid 50 $/match ,so there are no too much costs for bookies ... There are a lot of addicted people around the world , they bet on every match ,despite they know nothing ... They are simply ADDICTED.

[byronbb]

pellumb, do you know much about their actual jobs? Like are they merely feeding the scores or are they giving updates on other factors ie a player starting to scream at the Chair Ump, starting to limp around, etc? (All stuff that when we're watching a match as bettors that we obviously take into consideration when placing an in play wager.) Do they have some sort of special device they use to relay that info or do they just use a phone/ipad? Do they have to hide what they're doing when they're in the stands?

I feel like all these questions I've wondered about for years are finally getting answered. Probably should've just stopped being lazy and started a thread about this ages ago

I heard they are sent with a cell phone which they have in call the whole game an only relate danger zone information.

[jjgold]

Shari I agreed with Duffy you nit wit

External providers are score providers you mother fukker

Spinoffs of livescore and xodds....betradar

Betradar is used by most books in the fukkin world as a score service you mother fukker

I know this shit inside and out

https://www.betradar.com/betradar/index2.php?#main:aboutus;sub:home

[shari91]

Shari I agreed with Duffy you nit wit

External providers are score providers you mother fukker

Spinoffs of livescore and xodds....betradar

You said: "Books do not hire people to go to especially when very little action bet on it"

YES BOOKS DO HIRE PEOPLE. Even for small matches. They hire external score providers.

Either phrase your posts better or beat it.

And thank you byron. I've honestly spent ages thinking about these little things. JJ and I have also spent hours talking about how we thought it all worked so it's really awesome to hear the inside info. Yeah we knew computers played a part but the extent that people were involved was always the question. Plus just the details of it all - especially for a fluid sport like tennis. I can't even guess how much time I've spent wondering how the f they could adjust lines in 3 seconds based on a crazy woman telling an Ump to get f'd in a little tennis match that no one is watching or cares about.

Seriously guys, thanks for the info! I love learning all of this. Truly appreciate it.

[patswin]

good read

thanks for posting

[jjgold]

Books pay score providers

They dont hire people to go to fukkin games in Japan

Score Providers hire spotters, big difference

Leo Great work man..I am fired up now

[shari91]

don't go editing your post... i snapped it in time

the score providers have people in the stands - how the f would they ever get that info otherwise? doesn't matter if books contract that out... same shit

which makes sense because there's no other way they'd be able to update odds that quickly with a 25sec limit between serves (other than for the bigs obviously)

But seriously, aren't you glad Leo started this thread? We've talked about this for almost 3yrs. Now get one of those traders on the phone and do a traditional jjgold interview. I'm fascinated by this whole thing.

[bozeman]

about live bets - it's people adjusting the odds - i work part-time for fonbet - if anyone knows it's a crapy C-rated bookie, having though as many live events as bet365 has. the only games i attended were the ones not braodcasted on TV, u21 - champs, volleyball, soccer minor leagues. I am doing it by phone and the bookie is adjusting the odds manually as sometimes he may ask me - do they really suck and why? Which players have better pitches, etc.

[shari91]

about live bets - it's people adjusting the odds - i work part-time for fonbet - if anyone knows it's a crapy C-rated bookie, having though as many live events as bet365 has. the only games i attended were the ones not braodcasted on TV, u21 - champs, volleyball, soccer minor leagues. I am doing it by phone and the bookie is adjusting the odds manually as sometimes he may ask me - do they really suck and why? Which players have better pitches, etc.

THANK YOU BOZER!!!!!!!!!! Seriously I so regret not asking these questions ages ago. JJ what were we thinking?? How many times/hours did we spend on this when we could've got the proper answers here on the forum.

[baskets]

shar is the best mod in the business


can we get that jj/shari phone call video or fukking what?

[wrongturn]

THANK YOU BOZER!!!!!!!!!! Seriously I so regret not asking these questions ages ago. JJ what were we thinking?? How many times/hours did we spend on this when we could've got the proper answers here on the forum.

I bet JJ knew the answers, he just likes to play dumb so that ....

[brankica023]

Like they mentioned before i also had a friend who was working for some betting company and he was send on games in town where he lived specially football(soccer) and basketball and he is all time on phone with them and giving informations in codes,he get about 50€ per game.
Just open bet365 for tennis or soccer and see what games they have for betting like ITF tennis tournaments from Bulgaria or Turkey or soccer game u19 women Swedish league so they must have somebody out there to tell them what is happening because there isnt any broadcast of such matches.

[shari91]

I bet JJ knew the answers, he just likes to play dumb so that ....

normally he plays Sir Dumbalot... but this time he truly didn't know

remember 2yrs ago he messed up my PayPal and MB because he logged in from US IPs and tried to gamble... he jammed one site so badly by trying to redeposit (without even switching his IP) that from the emails I got from MB I figured Interpol was going to show up at my house... he had no clue about IP switching/VPNs (which books can figure out now anyway) or any of that stuff

(not sure if you remember seeing me scream at him on here for losing both of my accounts but that was 100% true - have only got PayPal back about 6mths ago... MB hates me still)

so he's been focusing a lot more on overseas stuff in the past year or so and let's face it: No US facing book offers the live betting options the UK ones do

he really didn't know... it was always just one of those topics we'd chat about because it was fascinating. How did it work? We'd pick some random game on 365 -even last week - and try to figure out how the f the lines were being hung. And we were debating other books and whatever. He's made his way into Aussie, UK and Asian books now but he's learning. They're obviously so different from US books. That's why these threads are brilliant.

[jjgold]

I did not realize there were live people monitoring everything and had knowledge more than regular clerks

Score feeds I knew books just paid a service, everyone does even usa aka don best

[Hareeba!]

I did not realize there were live people monitoring everything and had knowledge more than regular clerks

Score feeds I knew books just paid a service, everyone does even usa aka don best

So how did you figure the score feeds were getting the info at all those minor events?

[poloyol]

Cranky today...just think about my pole hun and smile...soon

Ok.............I will give you 1/2 credit here ..did not realize they are monitored by people 24 hrs a day

Software's Programs(computers)do everything and humans monitor the computers 24 hrs a day to make sure everything is running smoothly.

[poloyol]

don't go editing your post... i snapped it in time

the score providers have people in the stands - how the f would they ever get that info otherwise? doesn't matter if books contract that out... same shit

which makes sense because there's no other way they'd be able to update odds that quickly with a 25sec limit between serves (other than for the bigs obviously)

But seriously, aren't you glad Leo started this thread? We've talked about this for almost 3yrs. Now get one of those traders on the phone and do a traditional jjgold interview. I'm fascinated by this whole thing.

Please tell me your joking!!!! "the score providers have people in the stands"

[shari91]

Please tell me your joking!!!! "the score providers have people in the stands"

There have been 3 people in this thread confirm that's the case... how do you think books get the info for a Challenger tennis tournament with no tv coverage? They just guess? Do they guess medical timeouts and cramps too? Or even a lower level Aussie Open match now that I think about it. Cameras are banned... yet I've sat there watching matches and bet on my phone. How did 365 have odds to even display when televised coverage was banned due to licensing rights?

[Leo Bello]

Actually Leo, it's much more preferable when people post links rather than straight copying and pasting another site's articles. Thank you for this. Will read it when I'm done work tonight.

Thanks for setting me straight, Shari, I thought this might have been disallowed. I am always impressed by how knowledgeable you are about gambling—on all continents. You put me to shame. There are times you delve into subject matter that is way over my head. This article that I happened upon was very enlightening to me, and I thought it might be the same for others. I use this form of communication since with all of the experienced posters I don't think I personally could add subject matter that most would find "new" or newsworthy. Anyway, I hope you and your son are in the best of health and life is being good to you.

[shari91]

Thanks for setting me straight, Shari, I thought this might have been disallowed. I am always impressed by how knowledgeable you are about gambling—on all continents. You put me to shame. There are times you delve into subject matter that is way over my head. This article that I happened upon was very enlightening to me, and I thought it might be the same for others. I use this form of communication since with all of the experienced posters I don't think I personally could add subject matter that most would find "new" or newsworthy. Anyway, I hope you and your son are in the best of health and life is being good to you.

This was a brilliant article. But I also feel the same way as you - even after 20k+ posts, hanging around at SBR for more than 3yrs, working here and gambling for more than 20+ yrs - I always worry I have nothing to add. And I have so much to learn it's pathetic. But you know what? Who cares!!! I ask questions, as silly as they may seem to some, and I get my answers. I was being completely truthful when I said this was a subject JJ and I had discussed off and on for almost 3 yrs. It'd come up, we'd talk about it and we'd make guesses - which kept getting more sophisticated as our betting knowledge grew - but we never really knew the truth. Why the heck we didn't start a thread still blows my mind. The fact that I posted about an article after reading the first couple of paragraphs shows how excited I was about it so thank you!

All of us add something simply by placing a wager. Often we don't know how to express our reasoning behind it or why we chose this book over another, but the info is there. The pro guys know but most of us simply aren't at that level so sometimes you just need a facilitator to bring all of that info out. And that's what you did here today by showing us this article. You know those questions where they nag at you for hours... like a song title or whatever... and when you finally get the answer you feel a sense of relief? That's how I felt about some of the answers I got in here. Just stuff that always nagged me every time I looked at live betting at a UK book. Because of you, I have a much better sense of how it all works. If not for this thread, JJ and I would've been debating and wondering for ages. So thank you Leo. And thank you for the sweet wishes for my son and myself. Please try not to be shy about any questions you may have yourself. That's the only way we all learn. Look at how this discussion branched off (I'm sorry) but man, was a lot of info given out xo

[Leo Bello]

Well, I'm glad I found the article. When I get you and JJ and others banging heads, then there must have been something useful there. Like I said, I really did not understand it that much, but I did suspect there was good info in there that readers might enjoy. It might have been my only useful post. Thanks for your reply. I'm usually not on here until 3 or 4 am, my time.

[jbart28]

Damn I just wanted to post in this hella great thread with super human computers!

[rowand13]

Like they mentioned before i also had a friend who was working for some betting company and he was send on games in town where he lived specially football(soccer) and basketball and he is all time on phone with them and giving informations in codes,he get about 50€ per game.
Just open bet365 for tennis or soccer and see what games they have for betting like ITF tennis tournaments from Bulgaria or Turkey or soccer game u19 women Swedish league so they must have somebody out there to tell them what is happening because there isnt any broadcast of such matches.

If these games are not even televised, what's the point of sportsbooks offerring live betting for them. Do they really get enough action to even cover the cost of hiring people to attend these games and open an international phone line for over 2 hours? Does it even worth the risk of bets being manipulated?

My thinking is that bet365 for example would not offer live betting for a game that is not broadcasted. Also I think that many of these games would be locally televised such as Korean Womens volleyball for example, and bet365 would have access to these very small local tv channels. And that's why you will see bet365 sometimes have live betting for only one Aussie football game for example when 2 games are being played like they did today just a couple of hours ago when they offered Essenden Vs Brisbane, but not Geelong Vs Melbourne.

[Hareeba!]

If these games are not even televised, what's the point of sportsbooks offerring live betting for them. Do they really get enough action to even cover the cost of hiring people to attend these games and open an international phone line for over 2 hours? Does it even worth the risk of manipulating bets?
My thinking is that bet365 for example would not offer live betting for a game that is not broadcasted. Also I think that many of these games would be locally televised such as Korean Womens volleyball for example, and bet365 would have access to these very small local tv channels.

Read post #37

The books which subscribe to the service effectively share the cost of the guys sent to report on the games so it wouldn't be as expensive as you may imagine.

[horja1]

Read post #37

The books which subscribe to the service effectively share the cost of the guys sent to report on the games so it wouldn't be as expensive as you may imagine.

You can actually notice sometimes that 2 books are sharing the same "observer" because live betting goes down for both books, at the same time for the same event, probably because they lose the coverage (lost comunication)

[Thremp]

JJ is a complete moron. Why is he allowed to tard up the alleged "content" forums?

[GunShard]

Interesting.

[pellumb341]

If these games are not even televised, what's the point of sportsbooks offerring live betting for them. Do they really get enough action to even cover the cost of hiring people to attend these games and open an international phone line for over 2 hours?

The people who are sent get only 50$/match,so there is not too much cost for bookies . Yes ,they get enough action because there are a lot of addicted people around the world who bet on every match . People do not bet only on the matches which are broadcoasting . For example take a look at OGUCCI thread . He bets on every league ( Qatar,oman , saaudi arabia etx) just based on stats

And that's why you will see bet365 sometimes have live betting for only one Aussie football game for example when 2 games are being played like they did today just a couple of hours ago when they offered Essenden Vs Brisbane, but not Geelong Vs Melbourne.

The game was not live because probably nobody was sent to that match

[Hareeba!]

The people who are sent get only 50$/match,so there is not too much cost for bookies . Yes ,they get enough action because there are a lot of addicted people around the world who bet on every match . People do not bet only on the matches which are broadcoasting . For example take a look at OGUCCI thread . He bets on every league ( Qatar,oman , saaudi arabia etx) just based on stats



The game was not live because probably nobody was sent to that match

Geelong v Melbourne was live on free to air TV in Australia and Betfair were betting it live.

[jjgold]

Most Euro books do most soccer matches daily no matter if on tv or not
Score providers make it easy for books to offer live betting on anything

As far as USA Sports in Europe other than maybe bet365 (Uk) SBOBET, 12 BET and some other asians most offer the games on TV whatever that might me like ESPN UK or whatever they call it, you can see some of the big boys all offer the same USA games because its on tv over there

[shari91]

If these games are not even televised, what's the point of sportsbooks offerring live betting for them. Do they really get enough action to even cover the cost of hiring people to attend these games and open an international phone line for over 2 hours? Does it even worth the risk of bets being manipulated?

My thinking is that bet365 for example would not offer live betting for a game that is not broadcasted. Also I think that many of these games would be locally televised such as Korean Womens volleyball for example, and bet365 would have access to these very small local tv channels. And that's why you will see bet365 sometimes have live betting for only one Aussie football game for example when 2 games are being played like they did today just a couple of hours ago when they offered Essenden Vs Brisbane, but not Geelong Vs Melbourne.

As it says in the article, "next to him someone is working on German basketball (with no live pictures, he stares at a data feed)" so yes, they're offering live betting on events they don't have video for - they rely on that info to be fed through. That's why I was asking the specifics of it because for a sport like tennis, you'd have to have more info than merely the scoreline... which it's been confirmed in this thread that they do on the phone. Once in awhile 365 doesn't offer every AFL match. Not sure why though.

[muffins]

As noted operators attend games to provide live score information either verbal via constant phone comms (skype) or phone app. Some books have their own staff, others use providers such as Runningball. Generally the match operative will not provide much in the way of analysis, just convey key information. For example for soccer runningball will simply enter corners, penalties etc and via app note which side is in possession and if it is "safe", "attack" or 'dangerous" and that feed will cause the appropriate side to be unavailable for betting at dangerous times.

As for cost, I worked direct for a European bookie on Australian state-league soccer, and given turnover minimum five figures uo to six figures at right time and my cost was EUR70 fair to say that is not a concern with a 4% target profit on the match.

The live odds are based on pre-game odds/expectancies, with times and scores fed into spreadsheets or applications (for soccer based on poisson distributions primarily) and tweaked by a trader based on punter money, any key information they receive and their opinion. Most of the time they won't bring opinion into play on non-televised or lower level stuff. Trader will also react to smart money.

Prices of derivative markets generally all just feed off H2H, line, goal-expectancy so automatically adjust based on changes to those so trader usually only tweaking a couple of prices not the hundreds you see on a soccer match for e.g. When a derivative market is tweaked, such as red-card when lots of fouls/yellows, it will generally not be manually over-written but the auto-feed price have a permanent adjustment made to it so that "rolls" of the board are added to the auto-price each time it changes.

[muffins]

Once in awhile 365 doesn't offer every AFL match. Not sure why though.

Trader availability, low turnover event and generally crap time for 365s euro customers.

[cyberbabble]

‘The best result for us is usually a low-scoring draw, a nil-nil,’ says Dan.

I don't know anything about soccer, but the bookie is telling me where to look for value bets. Bet with the bookie, against the punters. Bet the draw in matches with a low total line.
I think squares are called punters in England.