Scott Stevens single-handedly took 6-8 years away from Lindros.
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Big E never learned to stay outta the railway tracks, head down too. How many times did grapes warn him?Originally posted by fiveteamer
Too bad, he had it all, shoulda had a few cups and 700 goals easy. I'm of the minority, always liked Lindros, great hockey player.
Sakic and Mario and Gordie and Brett's Dad,etc, etc are from Sudbury and the area? who knew....
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Same here, loved Lindros.
You think a player like Lindros would come from anywhere other than Ontario?
Not a chance.
Not really his fault he had a glass head.Comment -
Scott Stevens (Kitchener Ranger)Originally posted by fiveteamer
Eric Lindros (Oshawa General)Comment -
Originally posted by betplom
now i know you are only trying to tick me off plommer. plommer, you are wrong.. You know who the greatest player ever is? that's right, not wayne.. but montreal born mario lemieux.. here is why.
gretzky came into the league and played his whole career with Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey and much more.. played his whole career healthy, in a wide open western conference.. averaged close to 2 pts a game.
Mario came into the league with the most losing franchise ever in Pittsburgh, won them a couple of stanley cups in just a few years.. played his whole career injured.. had serious back problems, played hurt. had cancer. could not even bend down to tie his own skates. always in pain.. played in a conference that wasn't as wide open as out west. had hardly the same amount of ice time in his career as wayne, always played hurt, didn't have anyone to play with besides jagr, stevens.. and STILL had the same amount of pts per game, even with half the amount of ice time..He was fukkin great, and dont say no.. great reach, great with the puck.. stick handling, you name it.. he was GOD..
now what IF.. he started his career in EDM in 80, played his whole career like wayne did, same teammates, always healthy.. and gretzky was drafted for pitts, played in pitts from 84 on... had serious problems, alwys injured.. etc...
would he still be called the great one, OR would mario be called the great one.. and wouldn't mario today be the all time scoring leader by far and be called the great one? I feel so bad for mario.. he wasn't lucky at all. today, gretzky would have 1,700 pts and mario would have had way more pts than what gretzky has had mario played healthy for same teams as wayne.
do you agree with me, pucker, betbetter, anyone else? i know plommer won't, but what i say is true. mario was very unlucky with teammates he had, AND always hurt.Comment -
Nicky ...buddy wanted to say hi..Comment -
I think longevity and being able to stay healthy has more to do than just being lucky.
This attribute is always overlooked.
Sure, IF Mario stayed healthy, IF Mario played with Mess, IF IF IF.
They are all IFs.
Look at what Gretzky did as a 17 year old kid.
SEVENTEEN, Nicky. SEVENTEEN, almost scored 50 goals.
Gretzky made everyone around him better.
Nicky, you or I could score 20 goals a year playing on the wing with Gretz.Comment -
Mario was the most talented player of all time.Originally posted by Nicky SantauroComment -
how are you beamer.. beamer, i dont know if you remember mario lemieux, but anyone here will tell you, he really was the greatest ever.. too bad he was hurt throughout his career.. this guy would have been 2x better than gretzky. he was so good, beamer.
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element, i am happy you agree with me.. no one thinks mario was that good because he was always hurt and played with no one in pittsburgh for a crappy team. but if mario played his whole career in edm from 80 and on with mess, kurri, coffey and healthy... and wayne played career for last place pitt with no one and always missing games cause of pain, wouldn't mario today be considered the great one and wayne just great.. wouldn't mario be the all time scoring leader? and even with all this, they both averaged the same amount of pts per game in their career, AND mario had a lot of games that he played 1 shift, and left for pain reasons, which counted as 1 game.. he has played close to only half the amount of games thate wayne played.
boys, like it or not, mario could easily have been the great one.. i feel very bad for him.. he wasn't lucky.Comment -
Nicky,Originally posted by Nicky Santauro
Mario did'nt turn out too bad.He did alright for himself.
Mario had better hands. Awesome.
Nobody before, now or ever saw the whole ice like Janet's husband did. Nobody. Period.
Nicky you are the best armchair QB for hockey I have ever seen. God bless man.
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Mario wasn't tough, he was injury prone because he was from Quebec, in Quebec it's ok to tell the coach you don't feel well, he will tell you to go see the nurse.Originally posted by Nicky Santauro
Comparing their 5 best seasons, Gretzky out produced Lemiuex by more than 200 points! At the peak of their games, Gretzky takes it.
Career wise, I would have to give that to Gretzky as well. Based on longevity and consistency through the years. Gretzky played 70+ games a year for all but two of his 20 year career. One of them was the strike shortened season in which he played every game. We all know the struggles that Lemiuex had with his health, and he was a huge inspiration for many coming back from cancer and serious back problems.
In the end, both were rare talents that may never be seen again. I give the edge to Gretzky. He produced better for a longer period of time, produced better in the playoffs and won more Cups. Plus, the 5 year period between '81 and '86 is a display that will never again happen. Gretzky wins this.
Nicky, what is Quebec's answer to Bobby Orr?
Attached FilesComment -
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better,
how about mario's great read of the game.. no one did it better. how many times do you recall mario on a power play at the circle.. holding the puck for 16 seconds, and everyone leaving him alone.. he stands there.. stands there.. stands there.. head up.. then you see that pass under 2 sticks, and through a skate, right on steven's stick by the crease... scores.. his passes were unreal.. he was so good at it.. he could read every defenceman.. and his passes were right on the money.. tape to tape passes.. the guy could read things like no other. better than wayne.. come on better, how good was mario.. imagine if he played for edm and never missed a game? playing with mess, coffey, anderson, kurri, simpson.. and 100% healthy.. he'd have 250 more pts today than wayne.. don't forget boys, he has record in juniors that will never be broken. 282 pts in 70 or so games.. i saw him a few times play junior and he'd always got 8 pts, 9 pts in 1 game, 6 goals.. this guy was unreal.. gretzky never put up those numbers in juniors.Comment -
who was the craziest psycho mother fvcker to ever play the game?
good news plommer........he was an Italian from ontario.Comment -
He put up tremendous numbers being hurt a lot, and his best wingers were Rick Tocchet, Kevin Stevens, Rob Brown, and Bob Errey. Gretzky played with Luc Robataille, Jari Kurri, and Brett Hull.Originally posted by Nicky SantauroComment -
Phil Esposito?Originally posted by Al MastersComment -
Santauro
Fact:
Gretzky: 4 Stanley Cups
Lemieux: 2 Stanley Cups
Nicky, I know Montrealers love to tell you about their Stanley Cups, because that's the bottom line for them (except when comparing Lemieux vs Gretzky).
Quebecers love to have it their way, regardless of the facts.Attached FilesComment -
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Nicky in your estimation who was the greatest Goalie of all time???
Wow you need to be one tough motherfu%ker to play hockey...Comment -
Gretzky behind the net = the scariest mother****ing thing you've ever seen.Comment -
plommer, my quebec's answer to bobby orr?
Doug Harvey.. he was a montrealer..
hey, if you want to say wayne was better than mario because he was healthy, then i can say this.. how many cups has bobby orr won? and how many cups has doug harvey won?
al masters, i am happy you are reading this thread. i wanted you here. did you read all my points of wayne vs mario? be honest, i want you and pucker to tell me.. am i right by saying that had mario been 100% and played for edm in that time, that he today would have been the great one and had shattered gretzky's current #'s?Comment -
you can tell element knows hockey, cause he's the only one that agrees with me.. plommer, only reason his stats are better is because he was always healthy and mario always hurt..
plommer, wtf stats are those.. where did you get them? the ones in that box.. they are all wrong.. are those their career stats, cause no way that is right. what are those stats, plommer.Comment -
Nicky, i always believed Mario would of been the absolute best if not for the injuries,and including injuries.
just like i've always held the opinion that Cam Nelley could of been placed high up there if not for injuries.Comment -
Nicky,
Can't discount anything you say about Mario.
But...........
Walter's kid read "the flow", the bounces, and saw the game at a level higher than Mario's, which was elite. He would've put up those numbers anywhere he played. How many of his goals looked like garbage goals but was him putting himself in the most opportune place on the ice to capitalize on the bounce, which really, in essence, is what hockey is at the NHL level.
Mario had better hands, I stand by that.
If I'm starting a team from scratch and I watch both of them scrimmage for 3 periods in an uptempo game, not knowing either of them, I'd take Gretzky.
Better leader as well. Mario learned to become one when he matured. 99 was a leader from the time he was 10 years old.Comment -
NO.......this guy was a sick fvck,Espo was a player.Originally posted by betplomComment -
Nick, please stick to factual content.
IF Mario had not been a chain-smoking poutine eating lazy frechman he might have been a better player, but still not better than Gretzky.
Remember how he cried and whimpered like a little girl about not wanting to go to Pitt when he was drafted?
Gretzky went wherever he was told to go, he was glad to play anywhere, Lemieux was a spoiled Quebec kid that wanted it all his way or he wasn't going to play.
WHO? Nicky, you make yourself look bad by mentioning Harvey in the same sentence as ORR.Originally posted by Nicky SantauroComment -
Barbaro, Eight Belles, Mario Lemieux.Comment -
I am not a big hockey fan, i hope to learn more here, but my favorite player to watch was.... Steve YzermanComment -
Nicky off subject...who was the sickest mothder****er to play .
This guy was a real psycho on skates,the goon of all goons.Comment -
Not Probert. Clark kicked his ass many a time.
Not Hextall, Potvin ruined him.
Scott Stevens was the hardest hitter.Comment -
eddie shack was a nut.. but he's ukrainian.. what era did he play?Comment -
SchultzOriginally posted by Al MastersComment -
Good point, Stevey Y was a product of the OHL.Originally posted by bmw530iComment -
schultz was from saskatchewan
better,
and mario was not a leader? he went to a last place team and in a few years, won them a couple of stanley cups..Comment -
From the 70's......RICHKAS WOULD KNOW THIS ONEComment -
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