Hockey Goaltending

[element1286]

Gretzky's best seasons.

81-82, 212 pts, 8.03 (averages goals per NHL game)
82-83, 196, 7.73
83-84, 205, 7.89
84-85, 208, 7.77
85-86, 215, 7.94

Mario's 5 best seasons.

84-85, 141, 7.77
87-88, 168, 7.43
88-89, 199, 7.48
92-93, 160, 7.25
95-96, 161, 6.29

A couple of things. The average goal per NHL game when Gretzky had his 5 best seasons was 7.87, and the average goals per NHL during Mario's 5 best years was 7.24. In Mario's best seasons he played, 356 games, while Gretzky played 394. So Gretzky played in a time when there was 9.2% (7.24/7.87) more scoring per game then when Mario played.

Mario's ppg in 5 best seasons was 2.33, while Gretzky's was 2.63. So Gretzky scored 11.4% (2.33/2.63) more ppg than Mario.

[fiveteamer]

Tony Twist would destroy most, past or present.

Jeremy Roenick is one of my favorites, even though he's American.

[betplom]

Nicky,

Can't discount anything you say about Mario.
But............

Didn't Mario act like a big baby when he was selected by Pittsburgh?

Yes, Mario was a big spoiled Quebec born baby!

Quebecers are notorious pussies, when they don't get things their way they want to take their ball and go home, or just separate from Canada.

Mario was/is a suck because it was part of the culture growing up in Quebec.

Gretzky's Ontario upbringing was an advantage.

[fiveteamer]

Mario actually retired because he wasn't getting special treatment from the refs and league.

LOL @ that.

Grapes is right about the french players.

[betplom]

Mario actually retired because he wasn't getting special treatment from the refs and league.

LOL @ that.

Grapes is right about the french players.

Teamer, for the record, you are one of the most sensible guys I've ever met here at SBR.

Don Cherry tells it like it is, he knows those Quebec players are pussies, he isn't afraid to say so either.

[Al Masters]

STEVE DURBANO......NUT OF NUTS

[element1286]

Mario actually retired because he wasn't getting special treatment from the refs and league.

LOL @ that.

Grapes is right about the french players.

Not special treatment, he just didn't like the direction the game was headed with all the clutching and grabbing that impeded anyone with any skill so the unskilled Western Canadians could still seem important in the league.

[betplom]

Not special treatment, he just didn't like the direction the game was headed with all the clutching and grabbing that impeded anyone with any skill so the unskilled Western Canadians could still seem important in the league.

Element, thanks for participating, I know you have a great hockey mind.
Now I believe we have offended almost everyone that has anything to do with pucks!

Everyone makes excuses for Mario, he was a spoiled Quebecer that pouted and sucked out when things didn't go his way. Period.

FYI: "spoiled Quebecer" is an oxymoron.

[Nicky Santoro]

listen to element.. he knows


forget it element.. plommer and the ontario boys are bias.. of course no matter what stats we put up, they will never agree with it.. we should listen to element, cause he's not from quebec OR ontario, so it's more fair...

al,

gimme initials, too many players that are crazy..

[fiveteamer]

element is even more biased!

he is from pittsburgh.

Mario's done more for that town than U.S. Steel.

[PuckOff]

Al Mcinnis is maybe worth mentioning, that newfie was good.

But really, Defencemen should defend.

Scott Stevens was much better than Al, would take him in a heart beat over Al.

Scott Stevens was maybe the perfect defenceman.

You fool!!!

Al MacInnis is from Cape Breton , Nova Scotia

[PuckOff]

Interesting, but making a personal judgment on me based on my rants at SBR is pushing it, maybe if you stick around a bit you'll figure things out.

Pucker, you took the bait, which makes you appear like a typical east coast hick.
I thought you were sharper than that.

If you still don't understand, ask Nicky to explain it to you.

Plommer, I won't get into an internet flame war with you. So let's drop it and be Pals. We are Pals right?

[fiveteamer]

Puck, he was born a Newfie.

Everyone out east is pretty much a newfie.

[betplom]

listen to element.. he knows


forget it element.. plommer and the ontario boys are bias.. of course no matter what stats we put up, they will never agree with it.. we should listen to element, cause he's not from quebec OR ontario, so it's more fair...

al,

gimme initials, too many players that are crazy..

Nicky, I don't see you defending Mario when it comes to being a pouty little spoiled crybaby from Quebec, don't you remember the hissy fit he threw when he was drafted by Pittsburgh?

What excuse could you come up with for that?

Plommer, I won't get into an internet flame war with you. So let's drop it and be Pals. We are Pals right?

Pucker, of course we are pals, thats why I posted that response, I'm here for entertainment, and like to stir the pot now and then. Please don't take the taunting too seriously.

If I were serious, I would have had Nicky whacked by now.

[Nicky Santoro]

trivia question..

this habs player played for the montreal canadiens.. then went on to play for stlouis, vancouver, toronoto, ny rangers and st louis again.. we grew up together.. we were best of friends from grade 5 to grade 8.. we were inseparable. we played on same hockey teams from age 9 to age 13.. in 2 seasons, i scored more goals than him.. he played 16 seasons in the NHL..

who is he?

[Al Masters]

Psycho Steve at it again

[betplom]

trivia question..

i scored more goals than him.. he played 16 seasons in the NHL..

who is he?

Was he a goalie?

[element1286]

Honestly, I don't know how anyone could question the guy's toughness when had such an awful disease. I mean the guy still managed to win the scoring title the year he was diagnosed even though he missed a couple months of the season, and during those couple of months he was having kemo-therapy.

[Al Masters]

trivia question..

this habs player played for the montreal canadiens.. then went on to play for stlouis, vancouver, toronoto, ny rangers and st louis again.. we grew up together.. we were best of friends from grade 5 to grade 8.. we were inseparable. we played on same hockey teams from age 9 to age 13.. in 2 seasons, i scored more goals than him.. he played 16 seasons in the NHL..

who is he?

Jimmy ROBERTS?

[Nicky Santoro]

jimmy roberts?? he's 70 yrs old.. not that good a guess al..


initials SM

[PuckOff]

now i know you are only trying to tick me off plommer. plommer, you are wrong.. You know who the greatest player ever is? that's right, not wayne.. but montreal born mario lemieux.. here is why.

gretzky came into the league and played his whole career with Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey and much more.. played his whole career healthy, in a wide open western conference.. averaged close to 2 pts a game.

Mario came into the league with the most losing franchise ever in Pittsburgh, won them a couple of stanley cups in just a few years.. played his whole career injured.. had serious back problems, played hurt. had cancer. could not even bend down to tie his own skates. always in pain.. played in a conference that wasn't as wide open as out west. had hardly the same amount of ice time in his career as wayne, always played hurt, didn't have anyone to play with besides jagr, stevens.. and STILL had the same amount of pts per game, even with half the amount of ice time..He was fukkin great, and dont say no.. great reach, great with the puck.. stick handling, you name it.. he was GOD..

now what IF.. he started his career in EDM in 80, played his whole career like wayne did, same teammates, always healthy.. and gretzky was drafted for pitts, played in pitts from 84 on... had serious problems, alwys injured.. etc...

would he still be called the great one, OR would mario be called the great one.. and wouldn't mario today be the all time scoring leader by far and be called the great one? I feel so bad for mario.. he wasn't lucky at all. today, gretzky would have 1,700 pts and mario would have had way more pts than what gretzky has had mario played healthy for same teams as wayne.

do you agree with me, pucker, betbetter, anyone else? i know plommer won't, but what i say is true. mario was very unlucky with teammates he had, AND always hurt.

I somewhat agree, but they were 2 completely players. Wayne played at 170 lbs and was 5'10-11" so he was no giant. Late 70's and early 80's hockey was insanely goonish. You had to be pretty tough no matter who was your body guard.

You do make some good points, but I have to give it to Wayne Nicky. I do like Mario, but when he broke into the league I fakin hated the french faker. I only started to like him when he came back from retirement. Mario also played with some pretty decent players Nicky. Don't forget that. Did he make them better? NOPE. Did Wayne make the players around him better? You betcha.

It's the same as Ovechkin. HE does not make his teammates better players, BUT Crosby. This kid makes the entire league better. The kid is simply amazing and is awesome for the game.

[betplom]

Honestly, I don't know how anyone could question the guy's toughness when had such an awful disease. I mean the guy still managed to win the scoring title the year he was diagnosed even though he missed a couple months of the season, and during those couple of months he was having kemo-therapy.

I started disliking Lemieux when he started the spoiled brat routine and balked at going to Pittsburgh, he revealed to everyone early on that he was selfish and egotistical, most players would love the chance to play anywhere, not Mario, he only cared about himself.

Never liked the guy, has to do with his shitty attitude more than anything else, and although it may seem like I'm joking, I know part of it was his Quebec heritage.

Quebec is a province full of pussies and whiners. Nicky doesn't even try to defend Quebec.

[PuckOff]

Gretzky made everyone around him better.

Nicky, you or I could score 20 goals a year playing on the wing with Gretz.

BINGO Fiveteamer. Some so called hockey experts do not realize this.

[fiveteamer]

I hope Quebec separates from Canada just so we can beat them 7-1 in hockey every chance we get.

[bmw530i]

Nicky will you promise me...you will give me some hockey pointers, and some games this NHL season?

[Nicky Santoro]

I started disliking Lemieux when he started the spoiled brat routine and balked at going to Pittsburgh, he revealed to everyone early on that he was selfish and egotistical, most players would love the chance to play anywhere, not Mario, he only cared about himself.

Never liked the guy, has to do with his shitty attitude more than anything else, and although it may seem like I'm joking, I know part of it was his Quebec heritage.

Quebec is a province full of pussies and whiners. Nicky doesn't even try to defend Quebec.

quebecers are pussies.??. so how do you explain eric lindros, who is from ontario, and pulled the exact same thing..

[element1286]

You do make some good points, but I have to give it to Wayne Nicky. I do like Mario, but when he broke into the league I fakin hated the french faker. I only started to like him when he came back from retirement. Mario also played with some pretty decent players Nicky. Don't forget that. Did he make them better? NOPE. Did Wayne make the players around him better? You betcha.

It's the same as Ovechkin. HE does not make his teammates better players, BUT Crosby. This kid makes the entire league better. The kid is simply amazing and is awesome for the game.

Mario made his teammates better. Rob Brown scored 106 goals in three years playing on Mario's wing, and scored 84 the rest of his career.

Kevin Stevens scored 234 goals in 6.5 season playing with Mario, and scored 95 the rest of his career.

[Nicky Santoro]

beamer, i dont ever like to give out picks.. cause i hate knowing i cost someone money on acct of me.. it feels good to win for them, but not as bad a feeling as it is to lose their hard earned dollars. you have pucker, element and plommer this year for this.. i only give out maybe 2 or 3 a year that i feel really really strong about.

[Al Masters]

jimmy roberts?? he's 70 yrs old.. not that good a guess al..


initials SM

The sausage guy Momesso?

[betplom]

quebecers are pussies.. so how do you explain eric lindros, who is from ontario, and pulled the exact same thing..

I don't like Lindros either, but we were comparing Lemieux to Gretzky.

To Eric's defence, he did not want to go to Quebec, I can hardly blame him for that, most people want OUT of Quebec not in.
Even you can empathize with that.

Nick, stay on topic this is Gretzky vs Lemieux, if you want to start a different thread we can debate Lindros.

[PuckOff]

Nicky, i always believed Mario would of been the absolute best if not for the injuries,and including injuries.
just like i've always held the opinion that Cam Nelley could of been placed high up there if not for injuries.

Al,
Do you think that Neely truly belongs in the HHOF?

I await your response Pal.

Pucker

[betplom]

The sausage guy Momesso?

Sergio Momesso, I think we have a winner. Good call Al

Definitely:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=3771

[Nicky Santoro]

The sausage guy Momesso?

good job, al.. sergio momesso.. we were best of friends for many years.. much better guess than your 1st one..



element, you bring up some very good points for those that said mario didn't make his teammates better..

[bmw530i]

ok.... I will listen to the men in this thread, and come to a informed decision on some NHL plays....cool

[fiveteamer]

Nobody wanted to have anything to do with the Nordiques, including Quebec City.