Jordan Vs. Bryant - 5 season without Pippen, Jordan posted 5 losing seasons

dlunc3 · 02-26-12, 04:51 PM

lol was bryant even the best in the league more then one year?

hawley · 02-26-12, 04:52 PM

Welcome back I guess

onlooker · 02-26-12, 04:54 PM

Bored are we?

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 04:55 PM

lollllllllllll the first 3 were MJs first 3 seasons of his career, one of which he only played 18 games due to injury. the other 2 were his years in washington.

you are such a joke, it is ALMOST literally unbelievable.

kobe started SIX games his rookie season and ONE his 2nd year in the league. you seriously seriously seriously seriously have to be joking or you are UNBELIEVABLY delusional.

i have no emotional attachment to either player in any way. nice first thread back though.

hawley · 02-26-12, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by YouHave2outs

lollllllllllll the first 3 were MJs first 3 seasons of his career. the other 2 were his years in washington.

you are such a joke, it is ALMOST literally unbelievable.

broadway6 · 02-26-12, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs.

Everyone likes to bring up the bad years LA had without Shaq, when Kobe took one of the worst teams in NBA history to the playoffs in I think was a 7 seed where they lost to the suns. (Kwame Brown, Smush Parker in starting lineup). When Jordan came back to the Bulls he is the reason that they lost to Orlando. Hardaway took a dump on Jordan in that series, but no one here will bring that up because its a bunch of young gamblers in here that don't know shit about basketball.

Guys on here talking everyday that the Bulls will lose 10 games at most, that they will beat the Heat in a 7 game series. Anyone that knows anything about basketball knew before the season started that Miami won't lose a 7 game series to any Eastern Conference team.

Jordan wouldn't average 29 a game if he was playing in his 16th season in the NBA. We have had many debates on this topic on this site, and while I respect Jordan at 1, there is no one better than Jordan and Bryant. They are 1 and 2 and its not even close. Larry Bird or Magic Johnson are realistically not even close to Bryant. Neither of them were the ruthless defenders that Jordan and Bryant were. Lebron James is the only guy that can really take over as the best ever because of his raw talent but he would need to win 4+ rings and that probably won't happen because he's not ruthless. I'm not sure why people compare Lebron to Magic just because he's a good passer. Magic was all finesse. James is the strongest and fastest wing player in the history of the game.

Jordan's teams with the Bulls were basically like the Heat team today except for the fact that there's more contenders now then there was in Jordan's era. That's why Miami will win the championship easily this year and I will collect my future winnings.

Pauulzcappin · 02-26-12, 05:01 PM

darkhat · 02-26-12, 05:02 PM

You're def right about Miami. That Super Team better not lose any best of 7 or it's a huge deal.

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by YouHave2outs

lollllllllllll the first 3 were MJs first 3 seasons of his career, one of which he only played 18 games due to injury. the other 2 were his years in washington.

kobe started SIX games his rookie season and ONE his 2nd year in the league

the conclusion he draws that kobe is better than jordan based on his premise (comparing jordan's 5 years without pippen to kobe's few years without shaq) is just completely ridiculous. the first 3 years of jordan's career which preceded 6 straight championships, and the last 2 years....after two years of retirement....which came after 6 straight championships, are almost 100% irrelevant as to who is better.

HendoNation · 02-26-12, 05:20 PM

I'm not saying Kobe is better by any means, but people who say Kobe shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan are simply ignorant

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by HendoNation

I'm not saying Kobe is better by any means, but people who say Kobe shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan are simply ignorant

why? i am ignorant if your statement is true, and i want education.

Kadinni · 02-26-12, 05:25 PM

interesting...

Kobe had just as many losing seasons playing WITH shaq...lol

The bums couldnt even get past the jazz and get a chance to lose to Jordan and the Bulls.

William Walters · 02-26-12, 05:30 PM

Let's add that Kobe isn't a compulsive gambling stiff.....and.....his father is still alive.

HendoNation · 02-26-12, 05:32 PM

Kobe is undeniably the most comparable player we've ever seen to jordan. I understand there's no way to win an argument with stubborn people like you though, so I'll just let it go

History is incredibly overrated. Just like people who say Babe Ruth is the best baseball player ever. Or Willie Mays had the best catch ever.

hawley · 02-26-12, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by William Walters

Let's add that Kobe isn't a compulsive gambling stiff.....and.....his father is still alive.

and treats women with respect

riffraff24 · 02-26-12, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by onlooker

Bored are we?

typical lol.

pimike · 02-26-12, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by onlooker

Bored are we?

Welcome back Goat!

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by HendoNation

I'm not saying Kobe is better by any means, but people who say Kobe shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan are simply ignorant

Originally posted by YouHave2outs

why? i am ignorant if your statement is true, and i want education.

Originally posted by HendoNation

Kobe is undeniably the most comparable player we've ever seen to jordan. I understand there's no way to win an argument with stubborn people like you though, so I'll just let it go

History is incredibly overrated. Just like people who say Babe Ruth is the best baseball player ever. Or Willie Mays had the best catch ever.

this is your response? i am not stubborn, i am asking why you think this besides being a fan.

and the bolded analogies are a joke.

onlooker · 02-26-12, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by riffraff24

typical lol.

onlooker · 02-26-12, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by pimike

Welcome back Goat!

Whats up Pi.

jackmyhoggoff · 02-26-12, 05:51 PM

JORDAN is Class while Kobe is TRASH !!

Goat Milk · 02-26-12, 05:52 PM

There's too many guys that glorify Jordan and didn't watch him play season after season. Even analysts that just ride the bandwagon. I'll make a claim that Bryant is a better jump shooter (which is obvious to basketball players/fans) and someone will come in here and try to negate that by showing Jordan's fg %.

When Bryant had 4 rings Kobe wasn't even in Barkleys top 10 players of all time. After he got 5 rings, Barkley claimed he's a top 5 player of all time. The rest of the 3 (besides Jordan) in his list are Russel Wilt and the Big O, all guys that played in eras that had a faster pace which led to inflated stats (more possessions).

Pippen had a winning record without Jordan and Jordan was a documented loser without Pippen, even when he averaged 37 a game in what was a terrible conference at the time. I'm not taking anything away from Jordan's crown here-he is clearly the greatest player ever to play (although I think Bryant has 3 more years left and at this pace could catch Jordan)- i'm just showing people how I can use stats against Jordan too.

There is a reason why Bryant is the leading scorer in the NBA in his 16th season. Everyone knows he's gonna take 15-20 fadeaways a game because he doesn't have the same explosiveness. Jordan couldn't hit shots at that level of difficulty on a consistent basis. He could hit layups of that difficulty all the time. Best drive of all time. People were scared of JOrdan's drive, not his jump shot.

No one brings up these stats about Jordan. In fact, they are never mentioned, ever.

HendoNation · 02-26-12, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by YouHave2outs

this is your response? i am not stubborn, i am asking why you think this besides being a fan.

and the bolded analogies are a joke.

I'm not just going to go pick and choose stats to support it. There are stats that will make Kobe look good and stats that'll make him look bad, just like there are with Jordan. My support is from having watched both Jordan and Kobe, along with all other players, and realizing that the shear brilliance and superiority that these two players show on the court sets them apart from all the others. There is much more to this than simply looking at stats. Neither of them rely on physical superiority like Shaq and Lebron.

And do you not believe history is overrated? why are those analogies jokes?

onlooker · 02-26-12, 05:56 PM

You bring up some good facts GM. I was just joking with you earlier up top, someone didn't realize that. (See riffraff the clown).

RonPaul2008 · 02-26-12, 06:08 PM

Comparing the Bulls championship teams to the Heat this year is a total joke.
The Heat are not even the best team in the conference.

beerman2619 · 02-26-12, 06:20 PM

NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Michael Jordan 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt
Kobe Bryant 25.3ppg 5.7reb 5.0ast 41.2%fg 31.3%3pt
Pau Gasol 17.3ppg 10.4reb 3.2ast 1.7blk 52.8%fg
Scottie Pippen 18.9ppg 8.3reb 5.9ast 40.9%fg 25.9%3pt
Shaq (as a Laker) 33.6ppg 14.1reb 3.0ast 2.4blk 60.2%fg
Kobe (with Shaq) 22.1ppg 5.2reb 4.6ast, 1.0blk 41.6%fg

NBA Playoff runs over 34ppg:
Kobe Bryant: 0 (never)
Michael Jordan: 7

NBA Playoff runs under 48% shooting:
Kobe Bryant: 12
Michael Jordan: 6

Michael averaged 35 points per game when he won defensive player of the year. The next closest scorer to win it had 27 ppg. Guards rarely receive Defensive Player of the Year. Think about the level of energy it takes to lead the league in scoring, and be the league's best defender.

Seasons with at least 200 steals:
Michael Air Jordan: 6
Kobe Bryant: 0

Record in games with 30+ shot attempts
Michael Air Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
Kobe Bean Bryant: 46-61 (.368)
Michael Jordan shot his team to wins, Kobe Bryant shoots his team out of wins.

In his rookie year, Michael Jordan led his team in scoring, rebounding, assists and steals. Kobe Bryant wasn't good enough to beat out Eddie Jones for the starting spot his rookie year.

Kobe Bryant is not among the top 100 players all time in assists per game.
Michael Jordan is. He’s #80 in assists per game and #35 in assists.

NBA Finals Most Valuable Player awards
Michael Jordan: 6 in 6 tries
Kobe Bryant: 2 in 7 tries

Kobe has been out performed by teammates in 5 out of his 7 NBA Finals appearances, Michael Jordan was never out performed by a teammate. Michael Jordan never had a teammate average over 20.0ppg in any NBA Finals who shot a higher percentage than him, Kobe's had a teammate do this 4 times (Gasol doesn't get enough shot attempts or it would be 7 times).

Bottom line Jordan needed Pippen just as much as Kobe needed Shaq or Gasol to win championships.

dlunc3 · 02-26-12, 06:24 PM

This thread is an absolute joke... kobe cant even compare to lebron.... let alone even be in the same sentence as MJ.. Kobe has statistically gotten worse under postseason pressure.. just look at the comparison between him and lebron before even entering jordan into the mix.

Post season stats:

PPG: Lebron 28
Kobe 25.4

Assists: Lebron 7
Kobe 4.8

Rebounds: Lebron 8.4
Kobe 5.1

FG%: Lebron 46%
Kobe 44.8%

Steals: Lebron 1.7
Kobe 1.4

PER: Lebron 26.3
Kobe 22.3.

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by HendoNation

And do you not believe history is overrated? why are those analogies jokes?

babe ruth is to barry bonds as michael jordan is to kobe

that's not a joke?

chargers4222 · 02-26-12, 06:33 PM

OMG you are such a joke of a human being.....no reference to your big patriots bet goaty? you told us to come back to the thread after the game....where were you? then you come back and post your useless and completely worthless and misguided opinions like nothing happened....seriously who and where are your parents....

YouHave2outs · 02-26-12, 06:36 PM

goat, i do not mean anything negative by this question:

were you just taking a break til after all-star break to resume your thread because of a couple tough close losses, or are you letting that thread die?

wantitall4moi · 02-26-12, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by William Walters

Let's add that Kobe isn't a compulsive gambling stiff.....and.....his father is still alive.

leave it to you to still be wrong. While Jordan is a scumbag, that is maybe the one spot where Kobe actually has him beat.

No coincidences · 02-26-12, 07:00 PM

Are you an SBR plant to drum up views/hits?

riffraff24 · 02-26-12, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by onlooker

You bring up some good facts GM. I was just joking with you earlier up top, someone didn't realize that. (See riffraff the clown).

Yes i'm a clown.

fukkin scrub. be a more blatant hater.

darkhat · 02-26-12, 07:16 PM

OBV Jordan is the best ever. Lebron shouldn't be compared to Kobe even though, the same way Kobe should not have been compared to jordan till he got 5 rings. I do believe there's a good chance Lebron will win a bunch, and then at that point he could be compared to both.

Many people on this board are younger kids that weren't old enough to really remember kobe playing with shaq though, nevermind Jordan.