betfair just called me

[hels]

I've had 2 accounts (one when I was in Australia and the one I currently use in Canada). I've had the Canadian account since October 2010 and ever since my first deposit I had always been in the negative. The lowest I got to was -27k. Things started to turn around in the summer and I began withdrawing more than depositing. Last week I finally made it in the positive and have been on a ridiculous run. I am now +7k.

So I get a phone call and when the guy first said he was from BetFair I instantly feared they were going to shut my account or something. How wrong I was. He told me that I am a VIP and am eligible for some offers. The first was I would receive 50% of all commission I pay on winnings OR betfair will credit me with 20% of any losses. These offers are until February 7. I chose the 20% back of all losses.

My betting life has seemed to be on the ups and this doesn't seem real. I hope everyone can experience the joys of winning

[jjgold]

unreal

good work man

[FourLengthsClear]

A couple of quick questions:

a) What is your current commission rate?
b) Do you know where you are in relation to premium charge?

I only ask because it sounds to me like you me be close to crossing an unpleasant threshold. I was recently in the unpleasant position of being close to the threshold which would make me liable for the second stage of (elevated) premium charge despite never having paid any of the first stage. After explaining to Betfair that I couldn't afford to play there anymore if that happened they offered me a 'sweetener', albeit it was structured differently to what they have offered you.

[hels]

unreal good work man

Thank you kindly. I just hope everyone can feel like betting is doing them good. It's never fun to read about the people who have lost everything and are living in their cars.

[hels]

A couple of quick questions:

a) What is your current commission rate?
b) Do you know where you are in relation to premium charge?

I only ask because it sounds to me like you me be close to crossing an unpleasant threshold. I was recently in the unpleasant position of being close to the threshold which would make me liable for the second stage of (elevated) premium charge despite never having paid any of the first stage. After explaining to Betfair that I couldn't afford to play there anymore if that happened they offered me a 'sweetener', albeit it was structured differently to what they have offered you.

The current commission is 5%. However I have a 20% discount from my player points. So in total I pay 4% (If I win $100, I only get $96).

I have honestly never heard of this premium charge before. If you can tell me more about it I would certainly like to know what it is about and what the threshold is.

[FourLengthsClear]

The current commission is 5%. However I have a 20% discount from my player points. So in total I pay 4% (If I win $100, I only get $96).

I have honestly never heard of this premium charge before. If you can tell me more about it I would certainly like to know what it is about and what the threshold is.

If you log in to your account and visit this URL, you can view where you currently stand.

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html

Meantime you need to really pay attention to the below.

7) Premium Charges

In addition to the other charges detailed above, a small number (less than 0.5%) of our most successful customers will incur Premium Charges.

Please note that if you become eligible to incur Premium Charges, we will contact you before any charges are paid.

Calculating Potential Charges

Each week Betfair will calculate your ‘gross profits’* made, and your ‘total charges’** generated over the lifetime of your account. The details of these calculations are explained below.

You’ll only be considered for the Premium Charge if your account is in profit and only if the total charges generated since joining Betfair are less than 20%† of your gross profits.

The vast majority of customers, and even the majority of those whose betting on Betfair is profitable since they joined, do not meet both these conditions and will not incur the Premium Charge.

While those conditions accurately describe our most successful customers, they might also apply to new customers who have only bet in a few markets, or those whose accounts are in profit because of a significant big win. To ensure that those accounts are not inadvertently charged, we’ve added two further conditions: any single win that constitutes more than 50% of lifetime gross profits will be excluded from the calculation, and customers will only be considered for the Premium Charge after they have bet in more than 250 markets.

Each customer will also have a £1,000 allowance against the Premium Charge. This means that every customer considered for the Premium Charge will be exempted from the first £1,000 of the charge incurred.

Please note that for the purposes of calculating the charge we will assume that the charge has been in place since Betfair launched in June 2000. This means that we will consider all customers to have generated charges equal to at least 20%† of lifetime gross profits as of the 12th October 2009. However, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used prior to 12th October 2009 in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. Assuming hypothetical charges had been paid prior to introduction of the charge has the effect of reducing the amount that customers would typically incur.

Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of:
The difference between 20%† of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and
The difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account.

This means that you will not be faced with a Premium Charge that is more than 20%† of your gross profits for the previous week. Please note this figure applies exclusively to the maximum amount of Premium Charge payable. It is possible for the total amount of Premium Charges and commission paid to exceed 20%†.

Please note that the second of the two calculations set out above can only ever reduce the Premium Charge and will apply on the rare occasion that the difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account is less than the same calculation for the previous week.

Premium Charges will be deducted from customer accounts weekly (on Wednesdays) in relation to the previous week’s activity (Monday to Sunday).

Accounts that relate to one person, entity, API subscription or a Master Account with related Sub- accounts (Trading version only) are treated as one customer for the purposes of calculating Premium Charges. Note that no Betfair points will accrue for Premium Charges.

*By ‘gross profits’ we mean the amounts won, excluding total charges, less the amounts lost, on all Betfair markets. Please note: the Premium Charge only applies in respect of bets placed on the Betfair betting exchange and it does not apply to any bets placed on other Betfair products.

**By ‘total charges’ we mean all commission generated by Betfair as a result of your betting plus any Premium Charges you’ve incurred. ‘Commission generated’ includes half the commission paid on winnings, but also half the commission that Betfair makes from the other customers who win in markets in which you’ve lost, which we call ‘implied commission’. When you win, Betfair collects commission at your rate of commission, but when you lose, the commission collected by Betfair from the winners is at their rate. So we’ll determine the commission generated by your betting activity to be:

Commission generated = (Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2

where

Implied Commission = market losses x 3%

We divide by 2 because otherwise we’d be counting each pound of commission twice.

Premium Charge Summary

You will only be considered for the Premium Charge if, over the lifetime of your account, you satisfy the following criteria:
Your account is in profit;
Your total charges generated are less than 20%† of gross profits; and
You bet in more than 250 markets.
Two further conditions reduce the likelihood that you will be required to pay the Premium Charge:
Any single win that constitutes more than 50% of your gross profits over the lifetime of your account will be excluded from the calculation; and
Each customer will have a lifetime allowance of £1,000 against the Premium Charge.
Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of:
The difference between 20%† of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and
The difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account.

Examples

Example 1

You have won gross profits of £10,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 800 markets. You have paid total charges of £980; all of which has been paid through commission generated. You have not been charged any Premium Charges to date although you have fully used up your allowance of £1,000.

During the previous week you won £500 and paid total charges of £80. You are therefore charged £20 in Premium Charges ((£500 x 20%) - £80 = £20).

Example 2 – Charge Allowance

You have won gross profits of £10,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 320 markets. You have generated £1,050 in commission and paid no Premium Charge to date.

During the previous week you won £500 and paid total charges of £50. In the absence of a charge allowance you would have been charged Premium Charges of £50 ((£500 x 20%) - £50 = £50). However, the £50 is offset against the £1,000 charge allowance meaning that no additional Premium Charge is paid. You then carry over the balance of your charge allowance (£950) to offset against potential future Premium Charges.

Example 3 – Excluding ‘big’ wins

You have won gross profits of £8,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 500 markets. You have paid total charges of £1,025, all of which has been paid through commission generated.

During the previous week you won £5,000 from a single market and paid total charges of £125. As the win constitutes more than 50% of your total gross profits since joining Betfair, it is excluded for the purposes of calculating the Premium Charge. However, the commission generated on the win does contribute towards total charges paid.

After the win is removed you have gross profits of £3,000 and total charges of £1,025 and therefore incur no additional Premium Charge.

†Premium Charges at higher rates

Higher rates of Premium Charge will apply to the very small number of customers (less than 0.1%) that satisfy the following conditions over the lifetime of their account:
Lifetime net profits*** exceed £250,000
Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
Bet in more than 1,000 markets
The Premium Charge rate applied to each customer that satisfies these conditions is dependent on their lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio. The exact rate will be determined by the following table:

Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio Applicable Premium Charge Rate
< 5% 60%
5% - 10% 50%
10%+ 40%

Please note that any single market win that constitutes more than 50% of your lifetime gross profits will be excluded from all calculations.

If you satisfy the conditions set out above on 20th June 2011, your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio on that date will be used to determine the Premium Charge rate that will be applied to your betting thereafter. If you first satisfy the conditions above after 20th June 2011, your Premium Charge rate will be determined based on your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio at that time.

The amount of Premium Charge incurred by each customer will be calculated in exactly the same way as the standard Premium Charge with the exception that the standard 20% rate will be replaced with increased rate applicable to the individual in each case.

For the purposes of introducing a change to the Premium Charge rate that applies to your betting, we will assume that you have always incurred the Premium Charge at the prevailing rate. For example, if the Premium Charge rate applicable to your betting increases from 20% to 40%, we will assume that you have always paid Premium Charges at 40%. However, as explained in the “Calculating Potential Charges” section above, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. Assuming hypothetical charges had been paid prior to introduction of the charge has the effect of reducing the amount that customers would typically incur.

It is possible that your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio will change to the extent that your applicable Premium Charge rate will require adjustment. Should your rate change, we will recalculate as if you had always incurred the Premium Charge at the new rate. If your rate has decreased (eg if your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio increases from 4.9% to 5.1% - moving you from a 60% rate to 50% rate), the Premium Charges you ‘overpaid’ when being charged the higher rate previously will be used to offset future Premium Charges. If your rate has increased, Betfair will notify you directly and give you at least two weeks’ notice before the increased rate takes effect. You are entitled to seek review of your Premium Charge rate at any time.

***By ‘net profits’ we mean the amounts won less the amounts lost, on all Betfair markets, less all commission paid and Premium Charges debited. Please note: the Premium Charge only applies in respect of bets placed on the Betfair betting exchange and it does not apply to any bets placed on other Betfair products.

[hels]

Wow! I appreciate you sending me this. It's a bit foggy but what I'm understanding from it is that on any profits made over the course of a week, I will have to give 20% of those winnings to betfair (subtracting what commission has already taken).

So if I understand correctly can you please verify for me. After a week I'm up $1000 and have paid $100 in commission. Therefore, I will be charged $100?

From the link this is what my numbers are, I don't quite understand it. If you can let me know I'll be sure to give you points.

[FourLengthsClear]

Wow! I appreciate you sending me this. It's a bit foggy but what I'm understanding from it is that on any profits made over the course of a week, I will have to give 20% of those winnings to betfair (subtracting what commission has already taken).

So if I understand correctly can you please verify for me. After a week I'm up $1000 and have paid $100 in commission. Therefore, I will be charged $100?

From the link this is what my numbers are, I don't quite understand it. If you can let me know I'll be sure to give you points.

At the moment you are OK.

The key is that "Total Charges" figure in the Lifetime Profile column. As long as that stays above 20% you are OK.

If it falls below 20% you will start using up the GBP 1000 "available allowance" before you actually start paying any Premium Charge.

[hels]

I appreciate your help.

Are you still near the threshold? If you did have conversations with betfair is there any way to get out of paying this fee or to have it reduced? I'll definitely do some searching on the internet and I'll pm you if I see anything that appears significant.

[FourLengthsClear]

I appreciate your help.

Are you still near the threshold? If you did have conversations with betfair is there any way to get out of paying this fee or to have it reduced? I'll definitely do some searching on the internet and I'll pm you if I see anything that appears significant.

My problem is/was slightly different in that I was close to the second threshold (GBP 250k in lifetime profits) at the time they announced it which gave me little/no opportunity to raise my total charges ratio above the minimum (40%) level needed to avoid paying Premium Charge at the elevated level.

They gave me some additional leeway in terms of a higher monetary threshold as a one-time exception.

[hels]

My problem is/was slightly different in that I was close to the second threshold (GBP 250k in lifetime profits) at the time they announced it which gave me little/no opportunity to raise my total charges ratio above the minimum (40%) level needed to avoid paying Premium Charge at the elevated level. They gave me some additional leeway in terms of a higher monetary threshold as a one-time exception.

I'm happy to hear that. I think all of us dream to make that kind of money from betting. I can't believe the 60% charge and I don't know how anyone would tolerate paying that. The 20% charge isn't too kind either and my big dreams of one day making some really good cash have taken a hit.

I'll have to check out betdaq and matchbook and see if I can use similar strategies to live betting as I'm doing right now.

[tommygun]

The only time I have received a phone call from BetFair was them letting me know that I've qualified for Premium Charge, had no idea what it was at the time, but when I found out I flipped

[whatagoal1]

Your total charges are 27%, unless this figure drops to 20% you have no worrys about premium charge, unless your lifetime profit reaches 250000, so basically you are spouting about something that is not going to affect you.

[FourLengthsClear]

Your total charges are 27%, unless this figure drops to 20% you have no worrys about premium charge, unless your lifetime profit reaches 250000, so basically you are spouting about something that is not going to affect you.

1) He wasn't spouting.
2) His ratio dropped from 33.x% to 27.x% last week alone.

He would be well advised to (and he is) evaluate ways of keeping that ratio up.

[aggieshawn]

Wow! I appreciate you sending me this. It's a bit foggy but what I'm understanding from it is that on any profits made over the course of a week, I will have to give 20% of those winnings to betfair (subtracting what commission has already taken).

So if I understand correctly can you please verify for me. After a week I'm up $1000 and have paid $100 in commission. Therefore, I will be charged $100?

From the link this is what my numbers are, I don't quite understand it. If you can let me know I'll be sure to give you points.

Where do you find this page profile? I only bet horses.
Minor, Minor $ on sports.

[FourLengthsClear]

Where do you find this page profile? I only bet horses.
Minor, Minor $ on sports.

When you are logged in to your Betfair account.

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-m...e/summary.html

[wantitall4moi]

Bet fair is a scam, while they dont boot winners they over charge them on everything which is even worse since they get it both ways. If a guy starts losing again they get the losses if he wins he paying outrageous vig. It almost better to have them boot you.

[aggieshawn]

When you are logged in to your Betfair account.
https://account.betfair.com/regpay-m...e/summary.html

Just kicks me to the home page. What is the long route?

[FourLengthsClear]

Bet fair is a scam, while they dont boot winners they over charge them on everything which is even worse since they get it both ways. If a guy starts losing again they get the losses if he wins he paying outrageous vig. It almost better to have them boot you.

The "outrageous vig" you refer to is Premium Charge. It will affect regular bettors only if they hit at around 58% in the long term and as you say, the become unusable at that point.

Nonetheless that charge is primarily aimed at traders. Those traders are well aware of the rule and yet still provided the liquidity that allowed USD 80 billion to be traded last year. If it is a scam, it is a very good one.

OTOH maybe those that have used it for the last 12 years might know a little bit more than a waffling blowhard. Just a thought.

[aggieshawn]

I also see that betfair logged into my account from UK. At least I hope it was them as someone logged in from UK into my account.

[Hareeba!]

Bet fair is a scam, while they dont boot winners they over charge them on everything which is even worse since they get it both ways. If a guy starts losing again they get the losses if he wins he paying outrageous vig. It almost better to have them boot you.

I've been playing there for a decade and not encountered anything remotely close to deserving that criticism.

I am a keen shopper for best odds and if BF didn't frequently offer them I'd not have anywhere near the turnover I do put through them.

I suspect you really don't understand that they are an exchange, not a bookie when you say things like "If a guy starts losing again they get the losses".

[FourLengthsClear]

Just kicks me to the home page. What is the long route?

Go to the homepage, log in and then click that link (or copy/paste the URL to a new tab/window).

[tommygun]

Bet fair is a scam, while they dont boot winners they over charge them on everything which is even worse since they get it both ways. If a guy starts losing again they get the losses if he wins he paying outrageous vig. It almost better to have them boot you.

you really are an idiot.

[davidchong]

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html

[Extra Innings]

A couple of quick questions:

a) What is your current commission rate?
b) Do you know where you are in relation to premium charge?

I only ask because it sounds to me like you me be close to crossing an unpleasant threshold. I was recently in the unpleasant position of being close to the threshold which would make me liable for the second stage of (elevated) premium charge despite never having paid any of the first stage. After explaining to Betfair that I couldn't afford to play there anymore if that happened they offered me a 'sweetener', albeit it was structured differently to what they have offered you.