Do I have a case on this soccer game???

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:05 PM

The Sunderland game was 1-1 in normal time. Soccer bets are 90 miniutes only, extra time being played in this game. For bookmaking purposes the result is 1-1.

Fulham beat Leicester 3-2 in normal time, result = home win, which means if you had Fulham -1 the result is a push or a draw if there was 3-way betting.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 04:07 PM

Damn, I wish I would have known that before placing this bet... not a single word of rules anywhere on 5Dimes site that I can find... Damn I don't feel so good

poetwarrior41 · 08-27-08, 04:08 PM

I think you might have a beef there, since you bet the goal price. All 3 way prices are graded on the 90 minute rule, but injury time is included. If they scored in the injury time, then you should have a winner. I would call the wagering manager and ask for a ruling, they could of made a mistake with the scoring.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:12 PM

Depends if it was three-way betting, but yes, 93rd minute counts, all extra injury time counts, extra time doesnt count.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:14 PM

Dave, you could be getting confused because it might have been 3-way betting, i.e. Home win, Away win, Draw. If it was three-way you lost because you had home win. If its 2 way its a push.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by poetwarrior41

I think you might have a beef there, since you bet the goal price. All 3 way prices are graded on the 90 minute rule, but injury time is included. If they scored in the injury time, then you should have a winner. I would call the wagering manager and ask for a ruling, they could of made a mistake with the scoring.

It wasn't injury time... Definitely scored right at the start of the extra period.

My point here is that I legitimately didn't know, I'm not trying to play the victim here. My Euro buddy gave me some soccer tips so I took them.

If 5Dimes has a section that I'm not seeing that someone can link me to that gives rules on wagers and I can read that all wagers are final after 90 minutes, then its obviously my own fault for not reading those rules.

But after years of betting the 4 major sports and OT being included unless otherwise noted, I take GAME to mean GAME, not REGULATION TIME. I feel like there should be something like "Period: Regulation + Injury Time", not GAME.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:17 PM

Dave: I don't mean this as a critical comment but you should know the rules before you place the bet. All soccer matches are settled on 90 minitues play unless outright 'to win game' prices are advertised.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by englishmike

Dave, you could be getting confused because it might have been 3-way betting, i.e. Home win, Away win, Draw. If it was three-way you lost because you had home win. If its 2 way its a push.

There were 2 places to bet... 3 way (Win / Loss / Draw) and then 2 way (Spread.. only 2 options Sunderland -0.5 or Nottingham +0.5)... I didn't bet the 3 way one for this reason... but thats why I lost it would seem that -0.5...

So there is no way to bet on who will win a game including extras huh? Thats crazy.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by englishmike

Dave: I don't mean this as a critical comment but you should know the rules before you place the bet. All soccer matches are settled on 90 minitues play unless outright 'to win game' prices are advertised.

Agreed I should have I'm not disagreeing with you... obviously can't take that back. This just sucks, alot.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:24 PM

Its the same with English people betting NFL, overtime counts, you wouldnt beileve how many phone calls I get saying they should have won because they covered in regulation or had the under in regulation and it went over in O.T.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by englishmike

Its the same with English people betting NFL, overtime counts, you wouldnt beileve how many phone calls I get saying they should have won because they covered in regulation or had the under in regulation and it went over in O.T.

I can imagine! I just wish there was anywhere on the site at all that clarified this.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 04:28 PM

It's just one of those things you learn I think, sometimes the hard way like you have today.

Steeltown · 08-27-08, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

Agreed I should have I'm not disagreeing with you... obviously can't take that back. This just sucks, alot.

$20 bucks sucks a lot!

durito · 08-27-08, 04:50 PM

Those are standard soccer betting rules and they exist at every book in the world and always have.

As englishmike said, you won't find them listing OT counts for NFL bets either.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Steeltown

$20 bucks sucks a lot!

When 20 bucks is like 15% of your weekly income, it does suck alot!

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by durito

Those are standard soccer betting rules and they exist at every book in the world and always have.

As englishmike said, you won't find them listing OT counts for NFL bets either.

Fair enough... but I don't think they are equal.

NFL games say Period: Game

Game = Until there is a winner in hockey, baseball, football, and basketball

American Football isn't the anomaly.

LT Profits · 08-27-08, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

There were 2 places to bet... 3 way (Win / Loss / Draw) and then 2 way (Spread.. only 2 options Sunderland -0.5 or Nottingham +0.5)... I didn't bet the 3 way one for this reason... but thats why I lost it would seem that -0.5...

So there is no way to bet on who will win a game including extras huh? Thats crazy.

Yes there is, Since ths is a tournament, some books put up lines in teams "to advance".

That said, I didn't see any To Advance Carling Cup lines at 5 Dimes either.

durito · 08-27-08, 05:22 PM

I don't mean to be an ass as I've just started soccer betting and I really don't know shit about soccer.

But, Soccer gambling and Soccer itself is by far the most popular sport and bet around the world and that's the way they do it. I was trying to throw out a US sport comparison, which to us may seem ridiculous. But, to the rest of the world, we (the US) are the anomaly.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by durito

I don't mean to be an ass as I've just started soccer betting and I really don't know shit about soccer.

But, Soccer gambling and Soccer itself is by far the most popular sport and bet around the world and that's the way they do it. I was trying to throw out a US sport comparison, which to us may seem ridiculous. But, to the rest of the world, we (the US) are the anomaly.

I think you're right but as you know, when you're betting on stuff you're not sure about it can get awfully confusing, e.g. Injury time isn't 'extra time' but by definition it's 'extra time,' I can see how a novice would be confused, especially if he's betting on cup games which are the only ones to go to extra time anyway.
A for your point regarding how much soccer is bet around the world, the figures would be mind-boggling. There was a time when £100,000 ( $200,000) bets were rare but they're common place every single week now at every book, even books that don't want professional action are being forced to take it or lose out because it's gotten so competitive.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by durito

I don't mean to be an ass as I've just started soccer betting and I really don't know shit about soccer.

But, Soccer gambling and Soccer itself is by far the most popular sport and bet around the world and that's the way they do it. I was trying to throw out a US sport comparison, which to us may seem ridiculous. But, to the rest of the world, we (the US) are the anomaly.

I didn't take your comment as you being an ass, it is a valid point. I just think that if all major sports define PERIOD:GAME as played until the game is over, it wouldn't kill them to put PERIOD:REGULATION TIME.

I really would have put a lot less on it had I known this rule. Soccer is very low scoring and I've seen tons of games end in draws and extra time. I'd have been a lot more weary/scared had I known what I was getting myself into

pavyracer · 08-27-08, 05:47 PM

During major competitions they offer bets for both regulation time and extra time. If the odds for regulation win where let's say -110 the odds for an extra time win (the equivalent of overtime in football, or extra innings in baseball) would have been -190 or so. If you bet on Euro 2008 these bets were very common in knock-out stage. The odds should be clearly identified by the book as either regulation time or extra time.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

I didn't take your comment as you being an ass, it is a valid point. I just think that if all major sports define PERIOD:GAME as played until the game is over, it wouldn't kill them to put PERIOD:REGULATION TIME.

I really would have put a lot less on it had I known this rule. Soccer is very low scoring and I've seen tons of games end in draws and extra time. I'd have been a lot more weary/scared had I known what I was getting myself into

I was in your position when I first started betting on US sports when I was still in England. The very best advice I can give you is ask, ask, ask, whether it's on this board or preferably the customer service at the book. I probably drove customer service mad at Stan James with the amount of questions I had but that's what they're there for. I've been betting soccer for 25 years, Durito knows his stuff as well, if you need help just post the question here, we'll answer it. On a busy weekend there's probably 300 games to choose from so it's worth learning the different ways to bet because there is always a profit to be made in soccer.

Don't forget to save some money for the Breeders Cup!

purecarnagge · 08-27-08, 06:31 PM

unless its posted in the rules, its until the game ends. I think he should win. Screw extra time crap... If its not posted that its done at 90 minute mark then it continues just like the match continues...

They need to post it in the rules if thats the case though. RULES can't just be made and say well we didn't post it...they post all the OT rules for NFL

englishmike · 08-27-08, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by purecarnagge

unless its posted in the rules, its until the game ends. I think he should win. Screw extra time crap... If its not posted that its done at 90 minute mark then it continues just like the match continues...

They need to post it in the rules if thats the case though. RULES can't just be made and say well we didn't post it...they post all the OT rules for NFL

I can guarentee you it's in their rules and I would even say it was probably on the page where he was picking his games, he wasn't looking for it because he didn't know what to look for.

durito · 08-27-08, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by purecarnagge

unless its posted in the rules, its until the game ends. I think he should win. Screw extra time crap... If its not posted that its done at 90 minute mark then it continues just like the match continues...

They need to post it in the rules if thats the case though. RULES can't just be made and say well we didn't post it...they post all the OT rules for NFL

Even if those are the standard soccer betting rules at every single sports book in the entire world and have been since betting began?

smitch124 · 08-27-08, 06:57 PM

I thought those bets always included injury time??

englishmike · 08-27-08, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by smitch124

I thought those bets always included injury time??

See above. Injury time is the time added on to the regulation time to make up for time lost during injury 'time outs.' Extra time is used in cup games only when the two sides are drawing after regulation ( normal+ injury) time

donjuan · 08-27-08, 07:22 PM

That's a standard soccer rule at every book. If you had -0.5, they obviously offered someone +0.5 which would be stupid if extra time counted as it would be no different than PK. Live and learn.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 07:44 PM

To be fair though Don it's not something you'd immiedietly know as a novice soccer bettor. That's not to say you're not correct, just saying it's a minefield when you start betting on something you know very little about.

donjuan · 08-27-08, 08:08 PM

To be fair though Don it's not something you'd immiedietly know as a novice soccer bettor. That's not to say you're not correct, just saying it's a minefield when you start betting on something you know very little about.

Yes, of course.

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 08:14 PM

Dons right... no one to blame but myself. Just a bummer all the same.

donjuan · 08-27-08, 08:20 PM

Dons right... no one to blame but myself. Just a bummer all the same.

It is a bummer but it's a mistake I'm sure you won't make again. I'm curious if you would have made the bet had you known this rule beforehand?

VegasDave · 08-27-08, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by donjuan

It is a bummer but it's a mistake I'm sure you won't make again. I'm curious if you would have made the bet had you known this rule beforehand?

I would have, but not nearly as much. Definitely $5.00, maybe $10.00. No more than that.

englishmike · 08-27-08, 10:12 PM

The other reason you probably made a bad bet is because the competition they were playing in (League Cup) is regarded as a very minor trophy to Premier League clubs and they often field very weakened teams to give their 'stars' a rest. For that reason there is plenty of value to be found by taking the underdog +1 because to all intents and purposes the teams are of a level skill set by the time the favorite has rested their stars. I know this all sounds very technical but it's not, the bottom line is stick to Premier League games until you know your way around the soccer scene.