Miami unable to score on zone

[zsr]

You guys think this is a championship team? out in the 2nd round if they play the Knicks or the ECF when they play the bulls.

94 points per 100 possessions against man to man

74! Against zone.

[ChiLLx]

First of all the Knicks are god awful. And second I'm a Bulls fan but the Bulls don't really play much zone, Thibs is set on man to man but hopefully he has something in his back pocket. Heat are definitely not "unbeatable" like many people believe and from a gamblers perspective they've been bad ATS so far. Still going to be a top 2 seed.

[SportsMushroom]

You know why most gamblers are losers? its because they are too stupid to realize

1. that every team has the same number of men on the field

2. any team can beat another

3. even the best teams will lose quite a few games

4. teams have bad days

5. teams play to win and not to cover the spread


miami lost to atlanta and of coarse they suck, tomorrow when they beat the lakers by 30 everybody will be on here calling miami the best team ever, and the next day when they lose to the grizzlies everyone that lost a bet will be on here making threads with about how the heat will be lucky to make the playoffs

[zsr]

Mushroom I have no clue what your talking about

This thread is about the inability of miami to penetrate zone defense, not a point spread?

[BetterBizness]

so you can't shoot.. run over people!!!

[SportsMushroom]

Mushroom I have no clue what your talking about

This thread is about the inability of miami to penetrate zone defense, not a point spread?

my point is you are just saying that cause they lost, when miami wins there are 40 threads about how unbeatable they are, when they lose there are just as many threads about what a horrible team they are

people have memories like goldfish, they forget about everything else and their reality consist only of what happened in the last 2 hours

if miami was unable to penetrate zone defense they wouldnt have got within two wins of a championship last year

dont you think if it was that simple to stop the heat with zone defense then the heat would be a sub .500 team?

[zsr]

No, I've been saying this all year. It's not a one game thing. It's been every game, besides that Dallas game obviously. Who cares what they did last year? your turning this thread into something it's not.

They can't beat the zone this year, period. Nothing I said is untrue, they are unbelievably bad against the zone and shred man to man, obviously teams will start to play more zone against them seeing this trend.

[SportsMushroom]

No, I've been saying this all year. It's not a one game thing. It's been every game, besides that Dallas game obviously. Who cares what they did last year? your turning this thread into something it's not.

They can't beat the zone this year, period. Nothing I said is untrue, they are unbelievably bad against the zone and shred man to man, obviously teams will start to play more zone against them seeing this trend.

last year has everything to do with this year, especially since the main body of this team has remained unchanged, to claim otherwise means you know nothing about sports

its called building a team, last season was the first for the heat team, they were slow out of the gate as expected but got better as time went by, and they are even better this year as the players get more familiar/comfortable with the system and each others style of play

you want empirical evidence? last year the heat were ranked 21st out of 30 nba teams in in-the-paint efficiency by hoopstats.com, whilst this year they are a lot better, sitting in 11th place, they are better than most teams in penetration as you see, and none of the teams above them in the list are real contenders

also, they are ranked no.1 in peripheral efficiency, the only reason they are 11th in penetration is because they shoot the ball so much, which obviously works for them, if they were to start trying to penetrate more they would be near first place in that category too


again, if all you needed was zone defense to stop the heat from penetrating then the heat would be a sub .500 team

[zsr]

Lol. Building a team, there not building a team, they took 2 great wing players and expected to win championships without a challenge, as evidenced by all the celebrations, etc. I couldn't care less what they rank in scoring in the paint, that has nothing to do with this thread.

The heat cannot score against a zone defense, those are the facts, you can't argue the facts. I have no clue why you brought up a bunch of other nonsense, this is about there inability to score on a zone. There winning because teams have gone to zone too late, not for long enough stretches, etc. Obviously. 74 points per 100 possessions is absolutely atrocious.

[zsr]

Sounds like your just a heat homer

It's ok, I'd be mad too if my team signed the best 3 free agents, two top 5 players, threw a big party promising championships, and got dismantled in the finals. Of course since the season just started you can talk about how this is a new year, such great chemistry, blah blah. Same as last year.

[jsmithj88]

Sounds like your just a heat homer It's ok, I'd be mad too if my team signed the best 3 free agents, two top 5 players, threw a big party promising championships, and got dismantled in the finals. Of course since the season just started you can talk about how this is a new year, such great chemistry, blah blah. Same as last year.

they got the championship in a year, thats pretty good
if any1 got dismantled it was the lakers

[ZetaPsi808]

if it were easy to stop the heat with a zone they would be a sub .500 team. in reality the heat are way better than a .500 team, they are the best team in the east

[Ernie Mccracken]

I hate the heat as much as anyone, but they are far and away the best team in the NBA. No one is close. It's going to take (another) massive choke for them NOT to win the title.

[zsr]

if it were easy to stop the heat with a zone they would be a sub .500 team. in reality the heat are way better than a .500 team, they are the best team in the east

This would absolutely be true if teams played zone on them for 48 minutes. These numbers are fact, im not sure why everyone is arguing them? Look it up yourselves, They are absolutely terrible against zone.

[zsr]

they got the championship in a year, thats pretty good
if any1 got dismantled it was the lakers

It was championship or bust obviously for Miami, you don't do what they did to make the finals and lose.

[SportsMushroom]

Lol. Building a team, there not building a team, they took 2 great wing players and expected to win championships without a challenge, as evidenced by all the celebrations, etc. I couldn't care less what they rank in scoring in the paint, that has nothing to do with this thread.

The heat cannot score against a zone defense, those are the facts, you can't argue the facts. I have no clue why you brought up a bunch of other nonsense, this is about there inability to score on a zone. There winning because teams have gone to zone too late, not for long enough stretches, etc. Obviously. 74 points per 100 possessions is absolutely atrocious.

yes you make absolute sense, they are winning because teams have gone to zone too late?

what does that even mean? so if you go into zone early it works but if you go to zone late it doesnt? wtifuhjoiadfhsajdfhfrju I just got a brain freeze from this nonsense


fact of the matter is that if heat could have been stopped by zone defense teams would have adapted already, its been more than a year, heat couldnt be stopped last year, and this year they are even better, that douche lebron will get his first ring

[zsr]

Sports mushroom, obviously they are winning because teams haven't played zone all game.

Look at the numbers yourself. Stop posting stupid nonsense without understanding the actual facts. 74 point per 100 possessions is atrocious. They are being completely dominated by zone d.

You are simply posting your opinion without looking at the numbers yourself. Heat couldn't be stopped last year? Weird, I remember them losing in the finals?

[The Kraken]

This would absolutely be true if teams played zone on them for 48 minutes. These numbers are fact, im not sure why everyone is arguing them? Look it up yourselves, They are absolutely terrible against zone.

If what you're saying is true, all teams would play them with zone 48 minutes every game. It's not like NBA coaches are just over looking this fact.

[zsr]

If what you're saying is true, all teams would play them with zone 48 minutes every game. It's not like NBA coaches are just over looking this fact.

The numbers are true. I guess everyone on the forum is too lazy to look them up themselves, so assume they must be wrong, posting things like you and mushroom did must be easier then taking 5 minutes to check yourself.

[SportsMushroom]

Sports mushroom, obviously they are winning because teams haven't played zone all game.

Look at the numbers yourself. Stop posting stupid nonsense without understanding the actual facts. 74 point per 100 possessions is atrocious. They are being completely dominated by zone d.

You are simply posting your opinion without looking at the numbers yourself. Heat couldn't be stopped last year? Weird, I remember them losing in the finals?

you are posting random figures to which you have not even provided the source for

miami is averaging 110 points per game, with 52% shooting, these figures are undeniably, they wouldnt sniff 50 points per game if they only scored 74 points per 100 possessions, that statistic smells bad cause it came right out of your ass

[zsr]

you are posting random figures to which you have not even provided the source for

miami is averaging 110 points per game, with 52% shooting, these figures are undeniably, they wouldnt sniff 50 points per game if they only scored 74 points per 100 possessions, so either you are coming up with those figures from your ass, or are using some lame ass website

Synergy. Check for yourself. Your a typical forum idiot that thinks your a know it all, when in reality you are actually completely clueless. And it shows.

[Naz18]

zsr looking like a fool....

[zsr]

zsr looking like a fool....

zsr looking like the only one who looks at advanced statistics

[SportsMushroom]

Synergy. Check for yourself. Your a typical forum idiot that thinks your a know it all, when in reality you are actually completely clueless. And it shows.

are you serious? I am clueless? what the **** is a synergy


go to ANY website on the internet or do the maths yourself (i dont think you can perform simple addition and division though), heat are averaging 110 points per game on 52% shooting

from nba.com "The league averaged 94.6 possessions (per team) per 48 minutes"


so if what you are saying is true, and the heat are averaging 74 points per 100 possessions, then what you are saying is that the heat score less than 74 points per game (70.004 points per game to be exact)

seriously sometimes I feel like I am the only person on this forum with a normal IQ level

you squirt out random shit you see on the net, dont bother to do the maths to see if it adds up, but have the audacity to call others stupid

dude go get ready, you are gonna be late for your shift at chuck-e-cheese, do you just get a broom cause they are afraid to give you access to the cleaning supplies?

[zsr]

Lol at a synergy.synergy is an advanced statistics website for the NBA, I'm not surprised you were unable to execute a simple google search.

Clever, saying you are the only with a normal IQ when in fact your stupidity is incredible.

[zsr]

Also lol at trying to skew what I'm saying. The heat shred man to man defense. That's also a fact. Thats why they've been winning.

Here's a quick example since I'm sure you've never actually watched an NBA game. Atlanta fell down by 10 to Miami after 1, then, switched to zone (yes, teams change defense in the NBA) and, guess what happened? I'm sure you can google to see what the final was.

[Ace_of_Spades]

Jeff Teague is a lethal player for the Hawks at the moment. He just blows by any defense weather it be a layup or the tear drop shot. Underrated player imo. Hawks are a scary matchup for anytime. Depth + Height and Speed.

[tullamore21]

If what you're saying is true, all teams would play them with zone 48 minutes every game. It's not like NBA coaches are just over looking this fact.

lol, you people think it's easy for a team to play 48 minutes zone D?
It requires absolue concentration and need much physical and MENTAL energy to be spent, in order to achieve a good result. That's the reason most teams cannot play as many minutes as they wanted to this zonal marking.

There is a point of zsr's early post, but i guess Miami is good enough to penetrate the Zone D too. And guess what? This year Miami doesn't shoot as much as last year beyond the arc and at least it seems that their offensive game is more sophisticated and mentally balanced. At the end of the day, Miami will survive of this zone-defense and there is no reason to discuss about an artificial drama situation.
Good day

[SportsMushroom]

Also lol at trying to skew what I'm saying. The heat shred man to man defense. That's also a fact. Thats why they've been winning.

Here's a quick example since I'm sure you've never actually watched an NBA game. Atlanta fell down by 10 to Miami after 1, then, switched to zone (yes, teams change defense in the NBA) and, guess what happened? I'm sure you can google to see what the final was.

you should be an nba coach, you are the only one to figure out that if you play zone you can beat the heat, amazing


again lets do the maths, maybe you;ll get it this time

you say heat score 74 points per 100 possessions

average possessions per game = 94.6

74x94.6/100= 70.004 per game

now you lets look at your man to man nonsense

94 points per 100 possessions you say

94x94.6/100= 88.924 points per game



even if all teams played heat man ton man the heat would score 88.924 points max according to you, yet heat are averaging 107 points per game, 18 more points than your best case scenario and 37 whole points more than your zone defense scenario, so the statistics your squirted out are clearly wrong, which completely discredits anything else that you say


you are basing your whole theory on 5 minutes in a fourth quarter were the heat got out scored by atlanta

which brings me back to my original point, all you can remember is the last play, you cannot see the big picture because your mind is too small

stupid people, what are you gonna do

[The Kraken]

lol, you people think it's easy for a team to play 48 minutes zone D? It requires absolue concentration and need much physical and MENTAL energy to be spent, in order to achieve a good result. That's the reason most teams cannot play as many minutes as they wanted to this zonal marking. There is a point of zsr's early post, but i guess Miami is good enough to penetrate the Zone D too. And guess what? This year Miami doesn't shoot as much as last year beyond the arc and at least it seems that their offensive game is more sophisticated and mentally balanced. At the end of the day, Miami will survive of this zone-defense and there is no reason to discuss about an artificial drama situation. Good day

Exactly. Just one reason why ZSR's post is off point. Miami has struggled with the zone, it's well documented. I know this, he does, you do, the Heats coach knows it and so does every other coach. But nobody is going to play a zone for 48 minutes. Some teams won't run a zone at all. This is why it's pointless to make a blanket statement like "out in the 2nd round if they play the Knicks or the ECF when they play the bulls."

The Heat will continue to work on their zone offense and have the capability to improve on it. This is a dynamic league where teams constantly work on their weaknesses.

[SportsMushroom]

lol, you people think it's easy for a team to play 48 minutes zone D?
It requires absolue concentration and need much physical and MENTAL energy to be spent, in order to achieve a good result. That's the reason most teams cannot play as many minutes as they wanted to this zonal marking.

There is a point of zsr's early post, but i guess Miami is good enough to penetrate the Zone D too. And guess what? This year Miami doesn't shoot as much as last year beyond the arc and at least it seems that their offensive game is more sophisticated and mentally balanced. At the end of the day, Miami will survive of this zone-defense and there is no reason to discuss about an artificial drama situation.
Good day

absolutely horrible, its exactly the other way round


man to man coverage exerts physical strain on the defender as he tries to keep up with his player, zone defense has the advantage of players defending an area of the court and there is generally little movement from them unless someone tries to penetrate

the reason why zone to zone is not implemented:

1. 3 second rule which leaves a big hole in the middle of the defense
2. in a game dominated by shooters it leaves more space to shoot from the perimeter and kill you with 3 pointers or long 2pionters, which is why the heat would thrive against zone defense, they have amazing shooters and are ranked no.1 in perimeter shooting
3. nba courts are too big to cover with zone defense, zone defenses spread the team too much and leads to big lanes for players like lebron and wade to drive to the basket


its obvious from the 3 reasons above why teams dont play zone defense against the heat, because the heat would destroy them with perimeter shooting and would give the big three wide lanes to drive to the basket

people on here are stupid because they think they are smarter and better than the nba coaches and they are the only ones that figured out that to beat the heat they need to play zone, and for some weird reason the actual nba coaches that have watched the heat play 90 games up to now have yet to figure that out

arrogance is the sign of a lesser mind

[YOUSENKO]

The heat lost because it is coming, may be gamblers are wagering more and more on them. Maybe its due to the bookmakers or tiredness. Nevertheless they lost but they are still the best team in NBA, next time they will beat atlanta or any team playing zone defense. Their shooting was way off today. The actual result in major games is rarely influenced by zonal or man to man tactics. It rely on the performance of the players. Coach is there to bring out the best performance by selecting the way they play on actual day in timeouts. If a team shows up at every offense its hard to beat them even if different tactics are used. You try to play D they shoot from perimeter, jump shots, all go in. There is performance factor on how well a team is plays D too.

[The Kraken]

10 posts since July of 2011 is really unacceptable. Who do you think you are to post so little?

[YOUSENKO]

Big deal to post a lot? I don't care. It dosen't mean 10,000 posts make an expert. I read once in a while.

[wtt0315]

atlanta is a bad matchup for them. Atlanta is just as quick and they can run with miami. Teague eats that cole point guard alive and josh smith down low is tough for them. If joe is shooting well for atlanta, miami will have problems with them