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Focker i've never said I bet based solely on games being rigged.Comment -
Well, assuming that you knew which games were rigged and according to you guys, it happens ALL THE TIME, why would you bet on games that weren't rigged?
It's gotta be a goldmine.Comment -
You're trolling.Comment -
Nope. I'm asking a legitimate question.Comment -
You believe you can benefit from the corruption and that corruption is rampant. Remember?
So, which of those games were rigged in your spreadsheet?Comment -
Poor Patty lost his marbles. Kid had potential too. A shame to see it go to waste.Comment -
Focker If I knew for 100% sure that a game was rigged i'd be all in. There would be no need for some sort of money management to protect your roll from losses. You would call it a model.. I have certain method I use that I believe is profitable.Comment -
Sports aren't rigged. People can't handle losing.
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Wow, Patty. You're talking in circles. A majority of games are rigged. You profit from them, but you don't know which ones are rigged for sure. However, you don't only bet on rigged games. But then again you couldn't possibly know that those games aren't rigged against you...
That's a pretty convoluted web you're spinning, Patty.
You might want to rethink that logic.Comment -
I made it clear that my method is not solely based on games being rigged.Comment -
I believe that I restated that in the post above yours...
Your entire scope of (mis)reasoning seems to be contained in it.Comment -
Focker you don't think I make sense/have any clue what i'm talking about. That is fine you have your right to your own opinion. Lets move on.Comment -
Funny no one brings up horse racing. except for the very biggest races I would say 80% of them have a 'winner' before the race starts. They dont all come in obviously but many races will have a couple horses that are supposed to come in together.
Watch TVG sometime and look at the pay outs. There was just one the other day. Two big odds came in, like an 80 dollar winner and a 15 dollar winner and the double paid less than the winner of the first race. it was explained away as a guy had it 100 times somewhere, or he wheeled a horse in the second leg. And that was only known because it was 'investigated' because it was so obviously bad they had to make a public statement.
We fixed horse races for years back east. But even in a fixed race you dont always win. Just like with sports. NBA is the easiest teams sport to fix because of the way scoring goes. Thats why they say you only need to watch the last two minutes of an NBA game to see who wins. Refs can let it go for 46 minutes for the most part, and in 120 seconds completely change the outcome versus the spread. Boxing is obviously the easiest over all sport to fix. You just need one guy to lay down and take it.
Football all you need are a couple holding calls or a phantom false start or something to take points off the board, kill a drive. Whatever. They build it in too, as announcers are trained to say "well they can call holding on every play'. So that is now embedded into everyone who watches the game. So people are trained as well. So when a hold is called, even a questionable one not many people have a long lasting emotional feeling about it. Another one, the tuck rule. I watched sports for 20 years before I heard that one come up. Now it is the best catch phrase around and a rule that is cited at least 2 or 3 times every Sunday. Where was it before that game?
Baseball you get an ump who messes witht he strike zone. But now a days it is a lot harder since they grade them with the software they have so umps have to be really really good at it. But they can influence totals to be sure.
But that is the thing most guys think the fixes are to get one side to win over the other, which sometimes they are. But the easiest thing to do is manipulate the scoring to make over unders almost automatic. You cant automatically say Lakers will beat Utam tonight (even if lakers were halfway decent) but you can manipulate the scoring to make sure both teams (or maybe even one team) scores X amount of points.
Is it rampant? Probably not. But I would say it is commonplace in NCAA hoops and the NBA. With enough games fixed to make up a clearly definable percentage of overall games. I also think NCAA football has more thana few where the refs are told to make sure certain teams get advantageous calls. Simply bcause if anyone doesnt think the powers that be in the BCS would want that to happen just dont get it. But eben with all that the BCS gets exposed year after year after year for being a joke. But the next year i s all forgotten and people move on. That is the beauty of 'conspiracies' and monopolies not enough people are interested in them to make them worrisome to the guys running the show.Comment -
so what you are saying is 'its easy to fix sports therefor it must happen'
solid reasoning, I for one am completely convincedComment -
Is all based on greed and money. If you dont know that youre extremely naive. Whenever someone can make a quick and easy buck on something they will. Especially when sports is pretty much the biggest business left that hasnt been completely exposed for the scam it is. Housing industry....exposed; banking industry....completely exposed; healthcare industry ...exposed; car industry...basically non existent now in the U.S.; Wall Street....so exposed people are camping out protesting it; Cyber bubble...short lived but made a major splash. Basically all these things that were the bastions of Capitalism have been exposed as more and more greed kicked in and more and more of them failed.
Sports is the last of those 'businesses' left. The one with the most money. They have survived because people are subsidizing them and the people dont know it. Every commercial or product used to sponsor these sports and who put the billions and billions of dollars into it comes from consumers. So we are paying probably 300-400% more for an item than we probably should.
Seriously how much does it cost to make a bottle of beer? How much does it cost to advertise that bottle of beer on TV? Thats stuff andmnore factors into pricing. But since the whole economy is out of whack, and inflation is out of control this sort of stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
Now does Sam Adams being 10 bux a 6-pack mean some ref is going to call a holding call in a game? Probably not. ut if that ref knows he might get away with something and take his piece out of the massive pie and makes a questionable call if it makes for a more exciting game or future match up then sure it is possible.
Sports is big business and gambling is still relatively big especially the illegal kind. So if a guy has control and a way to make some money for himself of course it is going to happen.
The 1919 world series was fixed because the players didnt make enough money. Even though refs and umps make a decent living there is still n such thing as enough to most people. So if they can double or triple their true income by making a few calls here and there who cares?Comment -
wantitall4moi makes my head hurtComment -
You don't have to lose a wager to realize that sporting events are fixed. Hell it's even proven fact that it has happened in the past. I don't understand why someone can still think that games aren't rigged. Are you living in another world? Seriously get a clue!Comment -
Fixed games are extremely rare. You're blowing this way out of proportion.[B][B]They key isn't getting rich quick. The key is getting rich slowly, and enjoying it.
[/B][/B][SIZE=1][URL="http://forum.sbrforum.com/sbr-points/490161-points-available-loan.html#post4633361"][/URL][/SIZE]Comment -
Something fishy definitely happened in that PITT/SD game. No doubt about it.Comment -
exactly, when someone can make a quick buck
its not anywhere near easy to fix a game
yes there have been some incidents in the past but those guys got caught, which proves that its not that easy to get away with fixing
you need a lot of money to make a fix happen, and to make a profit you need to be able to put down a lot more than that on a bet, vegas books have limits, even if you have beards you will never be able to put down enough money to make it worth fixing a game
not to mention that after previous scandals players and referees are being monitored closer than ever before, even their gambling habits are being monitored, to think that games can be fixed and noone would know about it, that is crazy talk
every time I hear someone say that a game was fixed I know that they lost money on the game, and have lost a lot more betting on sportsComment -
you like twisting facts dont you
he was talking about drugs, theft and murder that happen in dark alleys
its impossible to get away with a crime that is displayed live on national television and also leaves an obvious gambling paper trail
dude give it a rest, the only people I have ever met that cry fix are a) fans who's team has lost and they are bitter b) bad gamblers who go broke every week
the only people you will ever convince with your unsubstantiated theories and illogical arguments are other losing gamblers, which already believed sports are fixed anywayComment -
guys there are about 0,1 percent of games that are rigged, the rest of your losses are purely lack of gambling skills. 100 percent prooven . 100 percent guaranteed. It's only in Russia lower leagues and in Italy where they fix games.Comment -
R U really that narrow minded. Crime is crime and if a game is being rigged for monetary gain then guess what? It's a crime. So DUDE why don't you give it a rest? You post at sbr like your the foremost knowledge on everything when in fact based on your statements it's clear you don't know much at all. Assuming that because I am intelligient enough to know that wagers have an effect on game outcomes somehow makes me a losing gambler. Get a clue!Comment -
I am narrowminded? you are one of the most narrowminded people on this forum
I look at the facts and make logical conclusions
with the advancement of technology every sports or legal authority around the world is monitoring gambling patterns in every sport
as soon as they get a hint of irregular gambling patterns they launch investigations, as evidenced by the many gambling related arrests in the last decade
there is no way that in this day and age someone could rig a game and not get caught
all you got is there is a lot of money involved so it must be fixed! I got news for you, there are always two sides to every coin, yes there are people that would benefit from fixing games, but there are just as many and probably more people that stand to lose from games being fixed, and they do not let it happen
I have yet to see you make a logical argument, yet you act like whatever anyone else says has no merit, the depth of your arguments extends only as far as 'there is money involved so it must be fixed'
tell me sir, how many players and refs would it take to fix a game? tell me how much money would it take to bribe those players? tell me how much money would someone have to bet to cover the bribes and make a profit? tell me sir where is he going to manage to put all that money down on a bet? tell me sir why would vegas allow gamefixing to happen when it would cut into their profits? tell me sir why would the government allow game fixing to happen when it would cut into their tax revenue? tell me sir why would one team owner allow another team owner to fix games when it would cut into his own profits?
I am using your own argument against you, a lot of people would lose a lot of money if games were fixed, ergo the games are not fixed
you dont know what you are talking about yet you act like your opinion is a fact, more than a fair amount of people in this thread have commented on the fact that you are full of it, yet you still believe you are right, yes that is indeed the sign of an intelligent human beingComment -
Absolutely, large amounts of money inevitably will always invite those who wish to perpatrate fraud. It only takes 2 persons to fix even the smallest event. However as we all was witness with Tim Donaghy's testimony it is even executed by large conspirers. I cannot follow your logic that it would be detrimental to the goverment, team owners, leagues etc to have game rigging. On the contrary, it is very profitable. Need I explain to you the business model of the NFL and it's profit sharing amongst teams? But i'm sure you already know all that.Comment -
you keep bringing up donaghy, but that doesnt make your point, it makes mine, because you know how they were on to donaghy? because they monitored gambling activities!just like I told you, you cant fix a game without the authorities getting wind of it
you want me to tell you why it is detrimental to all those people to have game fixing?
a)vegas, if vegas allows game fixing to happen, they will be robbed blind by the game fixers
b)team owners- since you pretend to know so much about sports, I will assume that you know about retained revenue (actually its obvious from your arrogant assumption that you know so much more about revenue sharing that you dont know jack). Its revenue that teams do not have to share with the league, It includes things like ticket sales, luxury box sales, stadium pro shop sales, concession sales, and local media contracts. This retained revenue is quite substantial and it is dependent on team performance, as evidence but the recent financial resurgence of the denver broncos. With their resent success on the field, they are getting full attendance for the first time in years and their merchandise is selling through the roof, not to mention tv stations fighting over broadcasting rights. There is no team that makes money from losing, and only winning teams are profitable, the fact that you claim the opposite tells everyone all they need to know about the validity of your opinions.
c)leagues - how do you think leagues make money? from high attendance in games and big fat tv contracts. it is in the leagues interest for there to be fair games and for teams to be competitive. Game fixing drives fans away, which is the basis of your thread, the leagues dont want to lose fans because of gambling scandals. Also, the more interesting the league is, the more money they will get for tv contracts. You think that the league likes when the stadiums are filled up only when its a red sox-yankees game or a celtics - lakers game? they lose a shitload of money when the stands at a pirates game or a marlins games are empty, they lose a boatload when there are 10 people on the stands in a wizards - cavaliers game. if the leagues were to fix any games, it you do so in a way that the leagues would stop being a monopoly of 3-4 teams.
d)government - as I have already explained in a,b and c, game fixing leads to a lot less income for vegas, owners and leagues, which means less money for the government to tax, hence government loses a lot of money by allowing fixing to go on.
its ok I know I wont change your mind, but you are going to need some valid points if you want to convince anyone of your baseless argument
truth is this is nothing but a thread for gamblers to vent about how vegas stole their moneyComment -
Is this thread seriously still going?
I am tired of hearing people bitch about sports being rigged because they can't handle losing.Comment -
yes there shuold be no rigComment -
sportmushrm you didn't make any valid reasoning against my statement. Typing long paragraphs doesn't somehow make you correct. I can be longwinded as well but we are looking for substance. There's no reason to go into a long thesis on how leagues and teams make money. We understand how they make money. That was never in question. Yes I do bring up Tim Donaghy because until his whistleblowing people was in denial(like you still are) It happened and without Donaghy it still happens. Not just in the NBA either. Furthermore, how do you figure "vegas" would lose money by games being rigged? That is complete nonsense. Gambling 101- house wins. If and when games are rigged I'm willing to go all in that those who create the lines are in the know. More than anyone else. ANYONE! I enjoy your input but remember. Substance. It's not quantity but more so quality. Continue.Comment
