Blessing in disguise for Cardinals

WvGambler · 12-08-11, 02:52 PM

High3rEl3m3nt · 12-08-11, 03:07 PM

...so hard to not get distracted by your top four hitter rankings, but I'm going to stay on point. I think you're absolutely correct and I'd add that there's a plethora of young talent available at first base. A couple of right moves by the GM and the Cards could be more solid than before. Remember, Pujols started out slow this season, the Cards barely made the playoffs and needed the Braves' monumental collapse to do so, and as you mentioned, Pujols is past his baseball prime.

Well stated No-Coin!

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 03:09 PM

They will not be "just fine" next year. Not now. They won't win 90 games, no question about it.

Big Bear · 12-08-11, 03:13 PM

Barry Bonds was the greatest hitter to ever live.

Pujols is good but until game 6 when he hit that double he was never that clutch.

The best hitter in the game right now is Robinson Cano hands down. Ryan Braun and Troy Tulowitzki are better than Pujols too.

I think the Cardinals have a decent shot at a repeat. Pujols was a dick to have around in the clubhouse. Arrogant prick.

The Cardinals with Freese and Berkman with a healthy Wainright and Carpenter will be just fine.

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 03:14 PM

Cardinals wont make the playoffs next year.

seaborneq · 12-08-11, 03:15 PM

Cardinal got Pujols best 10 years, didn't need to overpay for the next 10. I would have gone 5 years 150million and said goodbye Albert, thanks for the memories.

BetterBizness · 12-08-11, 03:19 PM

Could have signed JJ for $100 over 1000 years...

Big Bear · 12-08-11, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by warriorfan707

Cardinals wont make the playoffs next year.

who will win the central then? Brewers are about to lose prince fielder and he is much more valuable to the Brewers than Pujols was to the Cardinals.

Cubs? gimme a fukkin break

Astros? worst team in the majors

Reds? need an ace starter or 2

Pirates? maybe if they decide to sign some big free agents which they probably won't.

National League East is going to be the best division in baseball.

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 03:23 PM

Reds and Brewers both have a chance.

katstale · 12-08-11, 03:44 PM

I mentioned this in another thread. Something has happened to his wheels. He led the majors in double plays. I mean, he just could not run last couple of years. The cardinals broadcast team would get near the subject, but never quite address it because of his status. I bet he was focused on DH years and wanted to finish his career in one place as a starter. Cards will be fine. Even without albert, have probably the best hitting lineup in baseball. Lance goes to first and they had a "professional hitter" sitting on the bench healthy--Allen Craig waiting in the wings for his shot.

Maxmillion · 12-08-11, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

Cardinal got Pujols best 10 years, didn't need to overpay for the next 10. I would have gone 5 years 150million and said goodbye Albert, thanks for the memories.

and they got 2 worlld series titles for those ten years so they got the best they could have from Albert. The Cards cant tie up that much money for 10 years, maybe 5-6 but not 10.

beerman2619 · 12-08-11, 03:51 PM

No the Cards do not have the best hitting line up in baseball without Pujols wtf is with some of you

. Pujols was only 299 with 37 homers and 99 rbi's. Cards are bucked without Pujols period. Think some of you forget guys like Berkman got pitches to hit because of Pujols. Nobody in that Cards line up you have to pitch around thats for sure. Cards will have a average offense at best without Pujols repeating is out of the question for that club.

No coincidences · 12-08-11, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by beerman2619

No the Cards do not have the best hitting line up in baseball without Pujols wtf is with some of you

. Pujols was only 299 with 37 homers and 99 rbi's. Cards are bucked without Pujols period. Think some of you forget guys like Berkman got pitches to hit because of Pujols. Nobody in that Cards line up you have to pitch around thats for sure. Cards will have a average offense at best without Pujols repeating is out of the question for that club.

As long as Duncan is around, the Cardinals' strength will always be pitching.

Remember, they just won a world title with Waino on the bench.

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by beerman2619

No the Cards do not have the best hitting line up in baseball without Pujols wtf is with some of you

. Pujols was only 299 with 37 homers and 99 rbi's. Cards are bucked without Pujols period. Think some of you forget guys like Berkman got pitches to hit because of Pujols. Nobody in that Cards line up you have to pitch around thats for sure. Cards will have a average offense at best without Pujols repeating is out of the question for that club.

No coincidences · 12-08-11, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by warriorfan707

The irony of you, a Giants fan, saying another team can't win because their hitting is weak.

lyon804 · 12-08-11, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by No coincidences

Don't get me wrong: I think Pujols is the greatest hitter to ever live (or at least unquestionably in the Top-4 with Ruth, Cobb and Ted Williams). He's also an outstanding and even underrated first baseman despite winning multiple Gold Gloves, and the perfect community role model.

With that being said, the Cardinals were, as usual, smart in standing their ground and not getting into a bidding war for Pujols. They set a ceiling and kept it. This may hurt them a little short-term, but a few years from now, who will be better off? The Cardinals can do quite a bit with $22 million per, and as they've proven in the past, they'll spend it wisely and efficiently. They're still one of the best franchises in MLB, and baseball is a quintessential team sport. Hard to say any player is worth $25 million per at age 32 for such a long period of time -- even Albert Pujols.

I wouldn't worry too much Cardinal fans. Your team will be just fine next year, and even better off a few seasons down the road. Anaheim overpaid for Pujols and embarrassed themselves with the CJ Wilson contract. Good luck with that.

I couldn't agree more... it goes back to the old adage of paying for past performance vs future performance. No doubt Pujols is the best player of his generation, but we have seen his best. He is on the wrong side of 30 yrs old now. I expect him to remain a very good player in the future, but I also see more DL stints and declining numbers.... Father time is "undefeated"

However, saying that I believe the owner Art Moreno of the Angles knows all this. Hell, if we know it you would think a billionaire business man would. This was a business move as much or more as it was a baseball move to take the Angles to the top in regards to market share and increasing gate,merchandise.... And most importantly TV contracts.

The funny thing is even after the splash the Angels are still 2nd best in the West.

The Cardinals know exactly what I said in the 2nd paragraph and were not willing to go to the mat for Albert because they are a small market team that will always be limited by the market. They have the best fans in baseball, but fandom only brings in so much money and at the end of the day it is all about money. Anaheim can capitalize on Albert and the marketing potential in an of it self. But think TV, that is where it is at.

ebbearsfb1 · 12-08-11, 04:12 PM

Teams don't repeat that often anyway... and like people stated if the braves didn't dump the bed late in the year the cards don't make the playoffs.. in mlb one player doesn't make the team

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by No coincidences

The irony of you, a Giants fan, saying another team can't win because their hitting is weak.

Lincecum, Cain, Vogelson, Bumgarner > Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Lohse

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 04:16 PM

Pagan
Sanchez
Sandoval
Posey
Belt
Cabrera
Huff
Crawford?

Not weak anymore, just gotta stay healthy.

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 04:17 PM

Correction I dont think Belt will be hitting 5th

BarkingToad · 12-08-11, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by beerman2619

No the Cards do not have the best hitting line up in baseball without Pujols wtf is with some of you

. Pujols was only 299 with 37 homers and 99 rbi's. Cards are bucked without Pujols period. Think some of you forget guys like Berkman got pitches to hit because of Pujols. Nobody in that Cards line up you have to pitch around thats for sure. Cards will have a average offense at best without Pujols repeating is out of the question for that club.

Bingo! Good thing the Cardinals didn't cave in b/c of course the Cardinals can spend that money smarter. Like they did when they signed Matt Holliday to 7 years $120 million, and Kyle Lohse 4 years $41 million.

As was pointed out Pujols can't hit in the clutch, the game 6 one strike from playoff elimination homer vs Astros a few years ago or walkoff homers in back to back games this season against the Cubs doesn't matter, he should have done it 3 straight games.

Wainwright coming back will help, though, he'll be 16-13 with a 2.20 ERA, 225 innings and no real closer. I'm sure a manager with no managing experience will somehow make it work.

warriorfan707 · 12-08-11, 04:32 PM

Ya I dont see Motte being able to slam the door all year.

gamble · 12-08-11, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by warriorfan707

They will not be "just fine" next year. Not now. They won't win 90 games, no question about it.

Originally posted by warriorfan707

Pagan Sanchez Sandoval Posey Belt Cabrera Huff Crawford? Not weak anymore, just gotta stay healthy.

first of all we will be fine next year, and thats without knowing what moves we're gonna make with the extra money we now have. sf's rotation might be a little better, but the hitting definitely outweighs that. belt batting 5th is a weak lineup, i don't care what kind of prediction you have for him, hes not a 5 hitter in the mlb yet, don't even get started on cabrera batting 6th. cards will have berkman/craig/freese batting 5th and 6th as of now

gamble · 12-08-11, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by warriorfan707

Ya I dont see Motte being able to slam the door all year.

he's done it for 2 years now, check his numbers

paco · 12-08-11, 05:11 PM

Miguel Cabrera is the best and most dangerous hitter.

eidolon · 12-08-11, 05:31 PM

I think the whole 10 year deal is knowing he probably won't play for 10 years. So if he is getting lets say 23 million a year, that is a pretty good deal for guy that doesn't miss games, hits .310, 30+,100+,100+ and .400+ obp every year. I'm guessing teams would rather pay 23x10 for 230million total, instead of doing something like 30x7 for 210million; this is so their yearly team salary can be a little bit lower.

gamble · 12-08-11, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by eidolon

I think the whole 10 year deal is knowing he probably won't play for 10 years. So if he is getting lets say 23 million a year, that is a pretty good deal for guy that doesn't miss games, hits .310, 30+,100+,100+ and .400+ obp every year. I'm guessing teams would rather pay 23x10 for 230million total, instead of doing something like 30x7 for 210million; this is so their yearly team salary can be a little bit lower.

you think he's gonna retire instead of making 23 mil per year at the end of the contract? anytime you get those numbers than yea you pay for it, but he won't put up those numbers in his upper 30's, which is why the cards wouldn't give him the big contract

BobHarvey · 12-08-11, 05:59 PM

Great signing for the Angels. The value of the television contract and the franchise just went through the roof. Next year Tori Hunter is off the books ($18 million) effectively paying for CJ Wilsons deal and eventually Wells deal will come off the books paying for Albert.

Plus Pujols has the advantage of being a DH late in his career. Two KILLER deals for the Halos.

frank416c · 12-08-11, 06:58 PM

smart to have signed berkman quick

jjgold · 12-08-11, 07:01 PM

Long term great move for cards

you can win without big names

face · 12-08-11, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

Barry Bonds was the greatest hitter to ever live.

Pujols is good but until game 6 when he hit that double he was never that clutch.

The best hitter in the game right now is Robinson Cano hands down. Ryan Braun and Troy Tulowitzki are better than Pujols too.

I think the Cardinals have a decent shot at a repeat. Pujols was a dick to have around in the clubhouse. Arrogant prick.

The Cardinals with Freese and Berkman with a healthy Wainright and Carpenter will be just fine.