SBR Bashers sign in: Intro to BlackJack Card Counting

[Bill Dozer]

Justin7 is going to give us the the first lesson on how to turn blackjack into a profitable venture.

The seminar will be at 1:30 on Saturday the 23rd, before the Poker Tourney. Please let us know if you plan to attend.

[Red_Sux]

first

[Justin7]

FYI, it will last about 45 minutes. It is geared towards people who know the rules of the game, but not much else.

[Iwinyourmoney]

Should be. Can I bring my buddy?

[xstud]

Just want to share the rule I live by..

NEVER split anything that starts with a F

Fours, Fives, Faces and F'n sixes

[Justin7]

Just want to share the rule I live by..

NEVER split anything that starts with a F

Fours, Fives, Faces and F'n sixes

You split fours versus 5 and 6 if you can double after split.

You split faces against 5 and 6 if the count is high enough.

[Nicky Santoro]

boys, this is how you do it.. learn from the best.. watch this vid only from the 25 second mark till the 1 min mark,. then from the 3:30 mark till the end.. this guy is the master of counting cards..

[RealSlimShady]

Justin, is there an explanation of why single deck is preferred to multiple decks?

[JoshW]

I am in.

[Nicky Santoro]

slimmer,

if 6 low cards come out right away in a 1 deck shoe, then your %'s go up big time on the next hand.. but when 6 low cards come out of a 6 deck shoe, your odds go up very little because there are 312 cards in deck, rather than only 52.. that's one of the reasons.. plus, i think they shuffle now with the machine after each hand..


Justy,

if you play pure basic strategy, and nothing but.. hit when you're supposed to, double up, re double up, re split.. all vegas rules.. including 3/2 and so on.. just go by the book 100% of the time.. won't you still be playing into a negative expectation.. like 0.3%.. isn't this a lost cause.. isn't playing basic strategy just going to make you lose less over the long haul at a slower pace, OR do you think blackjack can be beaten with proper basic strategy. .this can't be imo..or casinos would lose money.

there is no way to beat this game, am i right? the only way is card counting, and even today, it can't be done easily.. and it's very hard to do and not worth it.. too time consuming.. you're better off getting a real job, no?

thanks..

[rake922]

you're better off getting a real job, no?

yes.................

[MonkeyF0cker]

I'm in, Justin.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Although, I do know a little about the Zen system. I researched the card counting systems a while back but never practiced them. However, I'll be curious to hear what methodologies you implement for cover - if you'll be addressing that aspect of it.

[ms61853]

Justin, is there an explanation of why single deck is preferred to multiple decks?

Because the dealer has to hit stiffs. In a single deck game, the ratio of the cards that will cause him to bust relative to those that allow him to hit are higher.

[Bet Shooter]

slimmer,

if 6 low cards come out right away in a 1 deck shoe, then your %'s go up big time on the next hand.. but when 6 low cards come out of a 6 deck shoe, your odds go up very little because there are 312 cards in deck, rather than only 52.. that's one of the reasons.. plus, i think they shuffle now with the machine after each hand..


Justy,

if you play pure basic strategy, and nothing but.. hit when you're supposed to, double up, re double up, re split.. all vegas rules.. including 3/2 and so on.. just go by the book 100% of the time.. won't you still be playing into a negative expectation.. like 0.3%.. isn't this a lost cause.. isn't playing basic strategy just going to make you lose less over the long haul at a slower pace, OR do you think blackjack can be beaten with proper basic strategy. .this can't be imo..or casinos would lose money.

there is no way to beat this game, am i right? the only way is card counting, and even today, it can't be done easily.. and it's very hard to do and not worth it.. too time consuming.. you're better off getting a real job, no?

thanks..

Nicky, basic strat WILL put you at a negative expectation over the long haul. You will just lose your money slower. The ones that lose it quicker will be those that don't play flawless stategy.

Couting is the only way to have the expectation move to your advantage. Simple card counting methods that are published in most books are also not optimum. They are simplified for most people to grasp. It's a balance between an exact counting method that is harder to execute for the max gain, or a simpler strat that sacrifices some of the profit potential. Both will make money but one takes longer than the other. Also you to need play a certain # of hands (it's alot), before the % starts to be certain of giving you a positive return. This is one of the reasons counters play on teams. With the same bankroll for all players playing at once, that minimum # of hands is reached much quicker.
Let's say that (I am pulling these figures out of my ass because I am at work) you will need to get to 100K hands before you can have a statistical certainty of winning. If you have 10 players on the team, you will get to 100K in a tenth of the time.

[RealSlimShady]

Thanks, Nicky and ms61853 for your answers!

[VegasDave]

Damn, I was thinking of doing a video on the myths and misconceptions of blackjack... I'll have to churn that out one of these days.

[Justin7]

The biggest advantage of 1-deck is the number of Blackjacks, which are higher for both dealer and player.

For a counter, fewer decks means greater fluctuations in the count. You need a high count to make money, which happens more often the fewer decks you play with.

[VegasDave]

Keep in mind with one deck games though, most pay 6 to 5 on blackjack (absolutely brutal and huge for house edge) and most casinos shuffle about halfway through the deck so card counters can't get an edge. It isn't like the old days where they deal all the way down to the bottom of the deck and then use the discards.

In casinos, single deck blackjack is a gimmick game and you should stay away.

[Cloak & Dagger]

boys, this is how you do it.. learn from the best.. watch this vid only from the 25 second mark till the 1 min mark,. then from the 3:30 mark till the end.. this guy is the master of counting cards..

Charlie Babbot

A mastermind in his own right

[Francis Sollozzo]

multi-level count w/side count of Aces adjusted for number of 1/4 decks dealt

[MonkeyF0cker]

Don't forget the most important part. Penetration! In order for any system to be effective you have to have a high penetration percentage. I actually found a great casino here in Vegas with great penetration and the security there is about as lax as it gets on the strip. I'll share with those interested at the bash...

[RageWizard]

I will try to attend this but it starts just minutes after arriving from golf so I may be late or even miss it entirely.

[Poker_Beast]

Don't forget the most important part. Penetration! In order for any system to be effective you have to have a high penetration percentage. I actually found a great casino here in Vegas with great penetration and the security there is about as lax as it gets on the strip. I'll share with those interested at the bash...

I would love to know - PM me if you would not mind. BJ has been my game since I was a kid playing w/ my Grandfather. I have swtiched the last few years to hold em because it has gotten so hard to win anymore. I usually win at poker and lose it at blackjack on my way back to the room.

Thanks for the tip.

[VegasDave]

I would love to know - PM me if you would not mind. BJ has been my game since I was a kid playing w/ my Grandfather. I have swtiched the last few years to hold em because it has gotten so hard to win anymore. I usually win at poker and lose it at blackjack on my way back to the room.

Thanks for the tip.

If you could please PM me this too, I too would greatly appreciate it.

[LVHerbie]

sounds like good info... I'm in...

[reno cool]

You'll be hard pressed to find a single deck game in LV that pays 3-2 for Black Jack.
6/5 is now the standard. Unless your doing a very advanced system (beyond counting) you're better off playing the 2-6 decks.

[Illusion]

Count me in.

[HAPPY BOY]

might attend ,proably will if Im not too torched. Although I will be ready for the poker tournament.

[ico2525]

oh come on lol 2-6 = +1, 7-9 = 0 (neutral), 10s and aces = -1

positive count = good
negative count = not so much
really positive count = big bet

running count is just that, a running count
true count = running count divided by how many decks left to be delt

[Bet Shooter]

oh come on lol 2-6 = +1, 7-9 = 0 (neutral), 10s and aces = -1

positive count = good
negative count = not so much
really positive count = big bet

running count is just that, a running count
true count = running count divided by how many decks left to be delt

This is an example of what I was talking about as far as a method that sacrifices performance for being easy to execute. There are better methods out there that will increase your performance and your edge.

[Justin7]

This is an example of what I was talking about as far as a method that sacrifices performance for being easy to execute. There are better methods out there that will increase your performance and your edge.

I wrote a Blackjack simulator. The EV on AOII using an ace sidecount is about 10% better than Hi-lo. I can use Hi-lo while drunk for days at a time. AOII I can only do 3-4 hours before getting tired.

On 6-deck games, Hi-lo is fine. Double deck... it's worth learning a level 2 count with sidetrack of aces.