Did Andy Reid dig his own grave by making Vick starting QB?

[lakerboy]

paco why do you like Vick?

[McBa1n]

Sorry, knuckleheads, but I got into this discussion about Vick in the off season. It was a good thread. Vick, whilst impressive fantasy-wise, is not a winner. I havn't watched the tape from today's game yet, however - it seemed like this loss was not on Vick per se. It's just, he's got a broken right hand and had a concussion prior. I thought it was a mistake paying Vick and trading Kolb. not saying Kolb is the best QB ever, he's not. But I like him in that offense better than Vick by a LOT. Vick can do things better with his feet moving around better than anyone in the NFL, but he blatently shows immaturity running. I saw only bits of the game today thus far.

You ALSO have to look at the O Line of Philly. But then again, I was the only one mentioning being carefull on the Saints today with 2 starting O Lineman out (even though it didn't matter for 1 game). F'n hell. Why do I waste my time. Philly has no O line. ANY QB will get killed back there. Vick is super-talented, but against a D that's reasonable, he's going to fail. Why? Watch the tape and watch his eyes and see who is open or isn't. The guy has HORRIBLE recognition skills. Just because you throw for a dickload of yards doesn't mean you're the best. Look at Cam Newton. He's KILLING it statistically, but how many wins? HOW many wins. Same as Vick right now.

Philly is a broken team on both sides of the ball right now. They don't let their corners play corner correctly and they have a LOT of stupid people on O, and that includes Vick. For a guy Vick's age, he has learned NOTHING about NFL offenses. There's a reason why people go nuts over Manning or Brady. It's not because they can scramble and keep a play alive for a first down. It's because they can move the pocket with smart quick steps and make a pass to the 3rd, 4th or 5 progression. Vick has 1 or 2 routes in his progression at BEST, and that includes when he's running for his life behind that bs O Line they have in Philly. ELITE QBs can win in spite of having no line. There's 3 or 4 in the NFL that can say that they can make plays in spite of that. Vick in spite of that is the biggest waste of money at QB this side of Matt Cassel.

I'm just saying. Philly has been a great fade all year for me due to the public loving Vick. The guy can be amazingly incredible, but he's ******* stupid and hasn't learned a damn thing about playing QB in the NFL. He's not as agile or fast as he was and he's wearing down fast with every game, just like last year, when some guy named Joe Webb smoked him and took away Philly's home field advantage thruout the playoffs. I don't give a f that the guy is exciting as all get out to watch, he's not all that good at a position he can excel at. He just can't read a D. NO QB will excel in the NFL if they can't do that. NO QB.

Losing to the 9rs is rock bottom IMO. Philly's D is stupid, mostly, with the system they run. You got 3 corners that can play and yet they give away yards like no ones business - and their D line is now f'd, also, due to injury.
I can go on and on and on, but why f'n bother. ESPN has all the facts and so do the fantasy sites. Learn to study the game without a spreadsheet and maybe you'll see why Philly is in deep trouble this year. No O or D line, no wins. If it ain't Brady or Manning back there QB'n, you will lose and lose a LOT.

Meh, why do I waste my time. Stats ain't shit for a QB. Wins are all that matter.
But I'll say it one last time and stfu on the topic. Vick will not contend for a Superbowl on ANY team. Kolb was the better choice, even if he is kinda shite. I'd rather have Kolb.

[bobbyk1133]

I thought it was a mistake paying Vick and trading Kolb. not saying Kolb is the best QB ever, he's not. But I like him in that offense better than Vick by a LOT.

You make a lot of valid points regarding Vick. Is he the smartest QB to ever put on a jersey? Not by a mile. But you'd rather have Kolb "by a LOT"?????

We can debate the merits of Vick all day and night, but the simple question here is WHAT THE F HAS KOLB EVER PROVEN?????

You can't be serious with this guy. He has talent, but even in Reid's system he did all the same dumb shit he's doing in ARI. The only reason the kid has gotten so much love and hype is because a pylon would be an improvement over what ARI previously had. Until the kid proves that he can be a consistent difference maker he's nothing more than a shiny new draft pick--getting by on potential, but ain't proved jack.

I'm not a Vick fanboy by any means. I have my doubts too whether or not he can ever be a championship QB, but when I look around the league I know I'd rather take my chances with him than most of the other slugs takin' snaps. Kolb is nowhere close to being a top 10 QB yet and he's far from a sure thing of ever makin' it either.

[EaglesPhan36]

ESPN has all the facts.

That might be the funniest thing I have ever heard.

[jjgold]

Vick has just missed a few times to get to superbowl

He was a pass away last year from beating power Green Bay after spotting them a big lead

[bigsmitty]

I will say I didn't watch the game but the general summaries I've read are glowing about Vick and doubly so considering he played with an injured hand (laugh at it if you want but it is what it is). Probably one of the most considerations is that Philadelphia has been outscored 36-0 in the fourth quarter of its last three games, all losses. Don't know what the problem is but I don't trust Vick or the Eagles at all at this point. Cheers

[jjgold]

Poor play calling in red zone
Turnovers
Missed FG's is the issue

Its not Vick at all

[play4win]

you see everywhere vick haters! lol

and this forum is ridiculous!

the fumble, missed fg and bad play on 49ers 1yard line was the reason they lost!

andy need to get fired for calling bad plays! that call in the red zone is a joke!

he made the same mistake on giants game which cost a win!

and how retard must you be to select offense coach to defense ???

andy should only read orders from a pizza menu since he can't do nothing with football plays!!!

[BeBrave]

Feed him to the Dogs. no pun intended

[TheMoneyShot]

You guys can't read Vick's personality??? The guy goes HOT and COLD all the time. He's never in the middle. When things get bad... he totally get's down on himself. It effects everyone around him. When he's HOT... He's like the god of football.

I don't respect his on field personality. I think he conned everyone in that 100 million dollar contract. Yes, he had a hot year last year... but remember... we missed seeing this guy as an athlete... don't get me wrong... he has the talent... but does he use his god given talents on every play 100%??? I would question this guys integrity at times. Excluding the dog ring operation. The guy is just careless.... and emotional at times... I can see it. Andy Reid will eventually.

[jjgold]

Vick played his best game of all times yesterday

What are you guys watching?

[TheMoneyShot]

Didn't watch the Philly broadcast JJ. Maybe you can blame it on the Defense then??? I did watch Vick VS The Giants... and Vick made poor decisions in that game.

[jjgold]

No

Phila on 1 yd line 2 different times and Reid trying to run the fukkin ball every time, 1 fumble

Not Vicks fault

Poor play calling

Phila should be 4-0

[Leo Bello]

Sorry, knuckleheads, but I got into this discussion about Vick in the off season. It was a good thread. Vick, whilst impressive fantasy-wise, is not a winner. I havn't watched the tape from today's game yet, however - it seemed like this loss was not on Vick per se. It's just, he's got a broken right hand and had a concussion prior. I thought it was a mistake paying Vick and trading Kolb. not saying Kolb is the best QB ever, he's not. But I like him in that offense better than Vick by a LOT. Vick can do things better with his feet moving around better than anyone in the NFL, but he blatently shows immaturity running. I saw only bits of the game today thus far.

You ALSO have to look at the O Line of Philly. But then again, I was the only one mentioning being carefull on the Saints today with 2 starting O Lineman out (even though it didn't matter for 1 game). F'n hell. Why do I waste my time. Philly has no O line. ANY QB will get killed back there. Vick is super-talented, but against a D that's reasonable, he's going to fail. Why? Watch the tape and watch his eyes and see who is open or isn't. The guy has HORRIBLE recognition skills. Just because you throw for a dickload of yards doesn't mean you're the best. Look at Cam Newton. He's KILLING it statistically, but how many wins? HOW many wins. Same as Vick right now.

Philly is a broken team on both sides of the ball right now. They don't let their corners play corner correctly and they have a LOT of stupid people on O, and that includes Vick. For a guy Vick's age, he has learned NOTHING about NFL offenses. There's a reason why people go nuts over Manning or Brady. It's not because they can scramble and keep a play alive for a first down. It's because they can move the pocket with smart quick steps and make a pass to the 3rd, 4th or 5 progression. Vick has 1 or 2 routes in his progression at BEST, and that includes when he's running for his life behind that bs O Line they have in Philly. ELITE QBs can win in spite of having no line. There's 3 or 4 in the NFL that can say that they can make plays in spite of that. Vick in spite of that is the biggest waste of money at QB this side of Matt Cassel.

I'm just saying. Philly has been a great fade all year for me due to the public loving Vick. The guy can be amazingly incredible, but he's ******* stupid and hasn't learned a damn thing about playing QB in the NFL. He's not as agile or fast as he was and he's wearing down fast with every game, just like last year, when some guy named Joe Webb smoked him and took away Philly's home field advantage thruout the playoffs. I don't give a f that the guy is exciting as all get out to watch, he's not all that good at a position he can excel at. He just can't read a D. NO QB will excel in the NFL if they can't do that. NO QB.

Losing to the 9rs is rock bottom IMO. Philly's D is stupid, mostly, with the system they run. You got 3 corners that can play and yet they give away yards like no ones business - and their D line is now f'd, also, due to injury.
I can go on and on and on, but why f'n bother. ESPN has all the facts and so do the fantasy sites. Learn to study the game without a spreadsheet and maybe you'll see why Philly is in deep trouble this year. No O or D line, no wins. If it ain't Brady or Manning back there QB'n, you will lose and lose a LOT.

Meh, why do I waste my time. Stats ain't shit for a QB. Wins are all that matter.
But I'll say it one last time and stfu on the topic. Vick will not contend for a Superbowl on ANY team. Kolb was the better choice, even if he is kinda shite. I'd rather have Kolb.

Wow! I heard ya. That was impressive!

[jsmithj88]

kolb is better suited for the eagles offense, thats a fact
thats the main reason he was chosen to take over for mcnabb
the reason y vick is here and not kolb is because of his play last year
they had to give vick a chance after what he did, the dude was 2nd in mvp

i put a lot of blame on the defense, most of those games, the defense broke down when they needed stops
they literally ran through the defense in the atl and Sf game
eli didnt do anything in his game, it was missed tackles blown coverages

but it has to be on the offense as well, they have to score TDs
u see tom brady and his offense, they are out to score at every single possession
cuz he knos that his D sucks ass
the eagles offense just isnt as efficient yet

[upscope]

This thread is hilarious. I think it's comical how Vick has duped people into believing he's a good QB. Phi has scored seven 4th Q points this yr in 4 games.....******* SEVEN!!! And that came on a 50 yard run by McCoy. Take away a busted run by McCoy & Vick has led his team to the endzone a total of ZERO times in the 4th Q this yr. That's 60 minutes of play & he hasn't got his team in the endzone yet!! If you honestly believe that that is the defenses fault or the coaches fault or the kickers fault then I don't know what to tell you.

Mike Vick is the the LeBron James of football. He blinds you w/ insane athletic ability & gaudy padded states & dupes you into believing he is great yet he fails to deliver when it matters most. I mean this guy JJ keeps saying Vick played his best game ever yet he failed to put his team in the endzone in the 4th Q & blew a 20 point 2nd half lead. If that's his best game ever then WOW!! Can someone please show me a four game stretch where Manning or Brady failed to put their team in the endzone in the 4th Q??

[face]

eagles are the number one fade train this season. not a good team, always get a good price on the underdog. people will wait and wait for the eagles to perform well, when it is clearly not possible because they have serious problems.

[Ice House]

really dumb thread. andy reid has been a very successful coach.

[Stevedore]

Reid is one of the most overrated coaches in the entire NFL. He can never get his teams over the hump, hasn't won enough BIG games for as long as he's been in Philly.

As for the thread title, not about Vick IMO, but rather, how in the hell do you promote a offensive line coach who's never ran a NFL defense and give him the job as a defensive coordinator? This will be Reid's undoing in Philly; a CRUCIAL hire that he fuked up BIGTIME that will eventually cost him his job. Word around the league is the scheme Philly is using on defense is all wrong and doesn't fit their personnel at all.

[the_orangekat]

We all knew the real Vick when he started doing autographs shows for $85 a pop after getting this 'second chance.' The guy feels no remorse.

[robertg]

The guy is not a leader. He can't make his team mates play for him. These are the same leadership skills he was lacking when he was with the Falcons.

Andy Reid is going to be finished at the end of the season and the new coach will most likely won't want to work with a loser like Vick.

He cost dan reaves his job and he was much better coach than fat-ass reid.

[dlunc3]

reid is top 5 coach in football... you guys are clowns and have nothing to back your arguments other then "he has never won a superbowl".. There are only 5 coaches in the league who have rings.. the rest suck as well right? Reid definately is not perfect and has always struggled with in game coaching management.. but his game preparation is top of the line and he is great with player personnel and managing the cap.. the eagles have been relevant in the NFC for 10+ years because of him.. what other coaches can claim this?? people were saying the same things about cowher before he won his sb, now people consider him god of coaching

[jsmithj88]

This thread is hilarious. I think it's comical how Vick has duped people into believing he's a good QB. Phi has scored seven 4th Q points this yr in 4 games.....******* SEVEN!!! And that came on a 50 yard run by McCoy. Take away a busted run by McCoy & Vick has led his team to the endzone a total of ZERO times in the 4th Q this yr. That's 60 minutes of play & he hasn't got his team in the endzone yet!! If you honestly believe that that is the defenses fault or the coaches fault or the kickers fault then I don't know what to tell you. Mike Vick is the the LeBron James of football. He blinds you w/ insane athletic ability & gaudy padded states & dupes you into believing he is great yet he fails to deliver when it matters most. I mean this guy JJ keeps saying Vick played his best game ever yet he failed to put his team in the endzone in the 4th Q & blew a 20 point 2nd half lead. If that's his best game ever then WOW!! Can someone please show me a four game stretch where Manning or Brady failed to put their team in the endzone in the 4th Q??

those are nice stats but u didnt take into account that he was injured in 2 of those games.
so obviously, he didnt put up any points for those games
should they be scoring in the 4th, yes is the answer
but if u are gonna ignore their defensive issues then u are just out to bash the qb

[uup115]

Eagles are 1-6 in last 7 games Vick has played. 14 turnovers and only 10 tds...how many in the red zone? Countless bad decisions. Today he played his normal game.

[seaborneq]

To actually answer the question in the opening post, one of these guys will have to go. Can't keep Vick and Reid, one of them is the cause. Neither is good for the Eagles right now. Bad coaching and a lack of poise on offense when the deep strike is not allowed.

[uup115]

Whoever decided Vick was the answer needs to go. Vick is exactly what he has always been, and that is a terrible leader.

[dlunc3]

apparently neither of you watched the game today?

[dlunc3]

or any of the games this season for that matter?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Don't be surprised to see Reid jump on this grenade. He may re-sign. He got tired of this team.

[falconticket]

Most posters too young to remember that this is the same Vick as always. Dumb and reckless.

[Maxmillion]

Whoever decided Vick was the answer needs to go. Vick is exactly what he has always been, and that is a terrible leader.

and people thought mcnabb was a horrible leader. well it was either vick or kolb. i rather have vick

[Maxmillion]

We all knew the real Vick when he started doing autographs shows for $85 a pop after getting this 'second chance.' The guy feels no remorse.

well now that the birds are 1-4 we will see what these guys ESPECIALLY VICK are made of. I also hate this defense.

[uup115]

well now that the birds are 1-4 we will see what these guys ESPECIALLY VICK are made of. I also hate this defense.

You saw this in Atlanta...Fingers will be pointed, excuses will be made, coaches tossed under buses and games will be missed due to phantom injuries.

[seaborneq]

Don't be surprised to see Reid jump on this grenade. He may re-sign. He got tired of this team.

No way Reid resigns, he is a quarterback guru. He can make something of Kolb, AJ Feely, Vince Young, Vick, Kafka, Doug Pederson, The Detmers, Jeff Blake, Mcmahon, and Jeff Garcia. He can another stiff to throw the ball 70% of the time.

[uup115]

apparently neither of you watched the game today?

and you have never watched any of his 6 seasons in Atlanta.