Who Deserves to Win the NL Cy Young?

[stevenash]

nice #2 or #3 for this phills staff

Fixed your post

[dlunc3]

Fixed your post

he would be #4 in all fairness.... no higher though


(even tho the phills do have another pitcher about to have a 12-1 record with a sub 3 ERA---- kennedy would be ahead of him though)

[dlunc3]

Fixed your post

how #2? that is ludicrous

[InTheDrink]

look what kershaw is doin on a fukin brutal team like king felix last year ... get a fukin clue

I get that you don't grasp the relevance of him starting 13 games against some of the worst offenses in baseball a/k/a his own division.

I'd also like you to show me where i said that he's been anything other than solid. He is not the best pitcher in the league...at least not yet.

Of course you sure have proven to be a great judge of pitching since you told us how Jair is better than the phillies pitchers. Nice call pal!

[InTheDrink]

Pop quiz.

What pitcher mentioned in this thread has given up 3 earned runs or less in his last 11 starts?

There is only one, name him?

Let's answer a question with a question....

Do you consider 3 runs over 5ip a good start?

[stevenash]

Let's answer a question with a question....

Do you consider 3 runs over 5ip a good start?

No, but Kennedy has been the most consistent pitcher the past 2 months.
Take away his slow start in the beginning of the year, he's right in the middle of this conversation.

[t-wizzle]

Kennedy is part of the conversation. This isn't rocket science guys.

[MartinBlank]

No, but Kennedy has been the most consistent pitcher the past 2 months.
Take away his slow start in the beginning of the year, he's right in the middle of this conversation.

Kennedy has been the most consistent pitcher the past 2 months?

In the NL?

Lee's ERA since the end of July has been .37, and he is 7-0.

If you take it back to July 5 (last 11 weeks), Lee's ERA climbs to 1.99, with a WHIP of .998.

[dlunc3]

1) Lee
2) Kershaw
3) Doc
4) Hamels
5) Kennedy

[InTheDrink]

Kennedy is part of the conversation. This isn't rocket science guys.

Depends on the conversation. If you're going strictly by the title of the thread then you're wrong. If you're talking top 5, maybe 4 then you're right.

[kisado]

Kershaw should win. He deserves it. Had the best overall season with dominant, Cy-worthy stats whilst playing for a subpar, losing team. Cliff Lee deserves mention but he had a rough patch early in the season and is now turning on the afterburners. Furthermore, Phil Hughes on that Phillies team could win 16 games. Just saying. I don't think Doc Halladay had the type of year to garner yet another Cy award. Clayton Kershaw indubitably deserves it more than he does. Ian Kennedy has had a very strong year and has the most Wins to show for it. He is a huge part of the D'Backs' success this year. All in all, the award should definitely go to Clayton Kershaw of the Los Angeles Dodgers. His stats are incredible for being on a losing team. 17-5 2.45 ERA, 222 K's, and a 1.02 WHIP.

[crustyme]

last 11 starts:

kennedy: 10-1 2.28 era
lee: 8-3 2.22 era

anyone that believes kennedy doesn't belong is ignorant. he's been just as good or better than the currrent favorite.

the race is too close to call right now. a week ago, espn had lee ranked 4th in their cy young predictor but he has now leap frogged to 1st after his lastest start. which means a bad start can easily knock him out of first. if kennedy continues his dominance and lee/halladay/kershaw falters, you better believe kennedy will win and deserves it.

again, hamels has no chance whatsoever. how can he win an award as the best pitcher in the league if he's not even the best pitcher on his own team?????

[dlunc3]

That stat is not accurate though... bc some games 10 runs are scored that skew the average..
5 of the games Hamels won, the phills gave him 14 runs, 14 runs, 9 runs, 10 runs, and 8 runs of support... his season has been all or nothing--- either a ton of run support, or almost 0 run support..

Hamels:

Took losses when he gave up 2 runs: 3 times

Took losses when giving up 3 runs: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 0 runs: 1 time

Received a no decision when giving up 1 run: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 2 runs: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 3 runs: 1 time


That right there is 11 games that the phills easily could have one. I would almost bet my whole roll that no other pitcher is in that territory... Kershaw is in this spot 5 times in while pitching two more games then Hamels.

Hamels has only given up over three runs 3 times all season through 27 starts!
He has only given up more then 2 runs 6 times! That is 21 games out of 27 of two runs or less! Kennedy is at 11... Kershaw is at 9...

Not to mention that he has a better WHIP then all of the others that have been mentioned in this discussion.

Not saying that Hamels should win cy young... definately should not as of now... but he definitely should be in the discussions esp if Ian Kennedy is.

[crustyme]

how can he win an award as the best pitcher in the league if he's not even the best pitcher on his own team?????

[dlunc3]

Then why shoukd cliff lee? He isn't the best on his team either? Doesn't mean they can't have the best yr, even if they are not the best pitcher.. if hamels got wins in 4 of those 11 starts where he allowed 3 or less, he would be the frontrunner for cy young right now.. imagine if he got wins in 6 of those 11 much like kershaw has? And was sitting with a 19-2 record?? He wound almost have the award wrapped up. He has been the phills most consistent pitcher this yr.. its a shame people just look at his win totals and not his full body of work.. Again, I'm not saying he deserves it, but there is no valid argument against him at least being in the discussion

[crustyme]

because you can make a case for both lee and halladay being the best of the staff. if you polled 100 fans, you'd probably get 50/50. if you included hamels in the same poll, it'd be 50/0/50.

no one with baseball knowledge thinks hamels is better than lee or halladay. no one (except you).

[dlunc3]

I do not think he's better... The award is not for who the best pitcher in baseball is.. the award is for who had the best season.... And obviously the stats show that hamels is right there. And they are impossible to dispute. Maybe not the best, but definatley shoukd be in the running.. and also, if you polled 100 rfans more like 90 would say doc is better then lee

[crustyme]

yes, the award is for who had the best season, not what ifs.

kennedy also had games where he gave up 0 & 1 run but didn't get the w. you dont see anyone making excuses for him because his accomplishments are cy young worthy as it is and don't need embellishment of what ifs as you do with hamels.

[dlunc3]

Hamels has a better era, better whip and more strike outs then Kennedy in less starts.. you have absoluteky no stats to back your arguement.. I am not even saying that hamels deserves it over him, but why are you too stubborn to admit that he shoukd be in the discussion?

[dlunc3]

21 out of 27 starts of 2 runs or less allowed... 24 of 27 starts of 3 runs or less allowed... These stats are all that need to be said... A guy with those stats deserve to be in the discussion, I don't care if he is his teams 10th best pitcher

[crustyme]

no, only those who have legitimate shot at winning should be in the discussions. and there is no voter that would ever vote hamels over lee or halladay unless they have brain damage.

the same argument you are making about hamels can also be made about cueto, lincecum, cain and vogelson... but everyone knows they have no chance, just like hamels.

espn also thinks hamels is a long shot:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

[dlunc3]

here goes hamels again... just doing what he does... 2 runs or less and holding the brewers to 4 hits through 8...

[crustyme]

ian kennedy with another masterful outing......

1 run in 7.2 innings

19-4 2.90 era 1.11 whip



but he doesn't deserve it....

[crustyme]

now ian kennedy has taken over the #1 spot in the cy young predictor...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

[dlunc3]

It was the padres...he pitches in the nl west. Enough said

[dlunc3]

ian kennedy with another masterful outing......

1 run in 7.2 innings

19-4 2.90 era 1.11 whip



but he doesn't deserve it....

Exactly.. all three phills pitchers have better stats then him in every real pitching stat. And that is with playing in a ballpark like citizens bank and not pitching in the cake nl west

[stevenash]

Exactly.. all three phills pitchers have better stats then him in every real pitching stat. And that is with playing in a ballpark like citizens bank and not pitching in the cake nl west

What's a 'real' pitching stat?

[dlunc3]

ian kennedy with another masterful outing......

1 run in 7.2 innings

19-4 2.90 era 1.11 whip



but he doesn't deserve it....

Hamels, the least of the phills three, has better era, better whip, more innings pitched per 9, now strikeouts per 9, then Kennedy... While not pitching in the NL west... Any argument for Kennedy should be void.

[Monchito]

If Ian Kennedy strike out 11 again for sure is the NL CY YOUNG

[dlunc3]

What's a 'real' pitching stat?

Every stat the pitcher can control.. basically anythin but win totals. Other then win total, what stat does Kennedy have over any of the phills three or kershaw??

[InTheDrink]

Hey I'll give the credit to the guy for getting hitters out but let's not act like that lineup the fathers threw out there was fukkin murderers row.

Not one guy in the entire lineup with more than 8 home runs and not one hitting over .276

How was the lineup Cole pitched against last night?

[Monchito]

Well Ian Kennedy is out of cy young run !!!

DOC
Lee
Kershaw

i think lee and kershaw hav a good july and august !!
DOC hav a good start of season but in the end! hav some problems

LEE CY YOUNG

[dlunc3]

Hey I'll give the credit to the guy for getting hitters out but let's not act like that lineup the fathers threw out there was fukkin murderers row.

Not one guy in the entire lineup with more than 8 home runs and not one hitting over .276

How was the lineup Cole pitched against last night?

It's a mute point... He is worse in every pitchers stat then all 4 other canidates.. while pitching in that garbage divison. As Felix.showed last yr, win totals should mean nothing.. esp when that is the ONLY stat that Kennedy has gong for him.

[stevenash]

Every stat the pitcher can control.. basically anythin but win totals. Other then win total, what stat does Kennedy have over any of the phills three or kershaw??

Is a strikeout a real pitching stat?

[dlunc3]

Is a strikeout a real pitching stat?

Maybe I shoukd have phrased it differently.. "any stat that a pitcher has control over"