auto industry: driving the country out of recession

[crustyme]

Stop now, before you fall further behind. What was your reason for bringing up Circuit City in the first place?

Where's your link saying they weren't hired by other retail stores? More lies from crustyme.

you can't really be this stupid.

what's the difference between yahoo being acquired by google (hypothetical) and ford being acquired by honda (hypothetical)?

one sells cars and other sells ads?

no wonder you're studying to become a masseuse and not business.

[rsnnh12]

you can't really be this stupid.

what's the difference between yahoo being acquired by google (hypothetical) and ford being acquired by honda (hypothetical)?

one sells cars and other sells ads?

no wonder you're studying to become a masseuse and not business.

What the hell are you talking about? You brought up Circuit City, claiming that because some of their storefronts are empty (no link) and that you assume their employees couldn't find jobs (since you didn't post a link, its an assumption on your part), that the same thing would happen to the car companies. Is that the point you were getting at?

And LOL at masseusse. Yeah, physical therapy is massage therapy

Now, please tell me what your point was with posting about Circuit City

[crustyme]

No, I said they haven't done it for hundreds of years. The notion that our country only existed as a capitalist nation from 1970 on is moronic. In fact, to that point, it's been less of a capitalist nation. It's all Nixon's fault. Rinse. Repeat.

who said capitalism existed since 1970? you made a claim that no time in our history were billions of bailouts given out until evil obama the communist came to power. obviously you were wrong.

as for your "hundreds of years".... it's a ridiculous statement. i should have known you would use it to weasel out of admitting being wrong. nothing in america is the same since the 1700s. there were no corporations back then so no bailouts were required. plus, our modern day bankrurptcy laws didn't even come in to existence until 1978. so your "hundreds of years" asterisk was just a way for you to weasel out.

[mighty maron]

I work for the auto industry .....I loathe the work...good pay but loather the work

[Cougar Bait]

who said capitalism existed since 1970? you made a claim that no time in our history were billions of bailouts given out until evil obama the communist came to power. obviously you were wrong.

as for your "hundreds of years".... it's a ridiculous statement. i should have known you would use it to weasel out of admitting being wrong. nothing in america is the same since the 1700s. there were no corporations back then so no bailouts were required. plus, our modern day bankrurptcy laws didn't even come in to existence until 1978. so your "hundreds of years" asterisk was just a way for you to weasel out.

Re-read what I said. You would certainly agree that there were many, many corporations before 1970, yes?

How on Earth did Capitalism make it that far withoutbillion dollar taxpayer bailouts?

So what is it you do for a living?

[crustyme]

What the hell are you talking about? You brought up Circuit City, claiming that because some of their storefronts are empty (no link) and that you assume their employees couldn't find jobs (since you didn't post a link, its an assumption on your part), that the same thing would happen to the car companies. Is that the point you were getting at?

And LOL at masseusse. Yeah, physical therapy is massage therapy

Now, please tell me what your point was with posting about Circuit City

do you even know what a business model is? it applies to whether you're running a massage parlor (your future employer), donut shop, electronics store, maid service, internet portal, rental car or auto manufacturer.

you're the idiot who claimed if the big 3 were to go bankrupt, the would be acquired by their competitors and all the out of work employees hired. so i gave you an example where a large company (#2 in their industry) with a large employee force went bankrupt and weren't absorbed by their competitors.

you're the idiot who claimed all the stores were purchased and that all their out of work employees were hired. prove it.

considering neither walmart nor best buy opened 567 new stores (closed cc stores) recently, i would say you're talking out your ass again.

[crustyme]

Re-read what I said. You would certainly agree that there were many, many corporations before 1970, yes?

How on Earth did Capitalism make it that far withoutbillion dollar taxpayer bailouts?

So what is it you do for a living?

i guess your history book doesn't have anything in it about the great depression of 1930s?

you make it sound like it's been smooth sailing without government bailouts. but according to economists, the great depression came about because of lack of an intervention.

“Eighteen months ago, the global financial system was on the brink of collapse and the U.S. was suffering its worst economic downturn since the 1930s,” Blinder and Zandi said in their report. “The Great Recession gave way to recovery as quickly as it did largely because of the unprecedented responses by monetary and fiscal policymakers.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-28/blinder-zandi-say-u-s-bailouts-likely-averted-a-depression.html

[crustyme]

I work for the auto industry .....I loathe the work...good pay but loather the work

no offense but i hope you don't build my next car.

[Cougar Bait]

I give up. You win! You have completely convinced me. My position was obviously misguided.

[rsnnh12]

do you even know what a business model is? it applies to whether you're running a massage parlor (your future employer), donut shop, electronics store, maid service, internet portal, rental car or auto manufacturer.

you're the idiot who claimed if the big 3 were to go bankrupt, the would be acquired by their competitors and all the out of work employees hired. so i gave you an example where a large company (#2 in their industry) with a large employee force went bankrupt and weren't absorbed by their competitors.

you're the idiot who claimed all the stores were purchased and that all their out of work employees were hired. prove it.

considering neither walmart nor best buy opened 567 new stores (closed cc stores) recently, i would say you're talking out your ass again.

Jesus Christ, you are beyond retarded.

First, what do the number of storefronts have to do with anything? Is that how you measure a company's success? With how many stores they've opened?

You claimed that the employees didn't get taken on by other retail companies. Prove it. YOU made the claim, I denied it, because it isn't hard to get a job in retail, especially with knowledge of electronics. Where are your links saying they didn't get hired?

The part you are missing in your retarded analogy is that car companies MAKE CARS. What did Circuit City make? Nothing. If Circuit City collapses, is there all of a sudden a big gap in the amount of electronics available? No, because WalMart, Best Buy, Target, mom and pop stores, etc will all make up for the difference. Now, if the car companies collapse, will there be a big difference in the amount of vehicles available? Of course there will, which means that someone (in reality, a LOT of people) will buy into the automotive industry, because there is a big need to fill there.

Do you seriously not understand the difference?!?

[crustyme]

Jesus Christ, you are beyond retarded.

First, what do the number of storefronts have to do with anything? Is that how you measure a company's success? With how many stores they've opened?

You claimed that the employees didn't get taken on by other retail companies. Prove it. YOU made the claim, I denied it, because it isn't hard to get a job in retail, especially with knowledge of electronics. Where are your links saying they didn't get hired?

The part you are missing in your retarded analogy is that car companies MAKE CARS. What did Circuit City make? Nothing. If Circuit City collapses, is there all of a sudden a big gap in the amount of electronics available? No, because WalMart, Best Buy, Target, mom and pop stores, etc will all make up for the difference. Now, if the car companies collapse, will there be a big difference in the amount of vehicles available? Of course there will, which means that someone (in reality, a LOT of people) will buy into the automotive industry, because there is a big need to fill there.

Do you seriously not understand the difference?!?

so where would they place the 30,000 additional workers, stuff them all in their current stores???? you are stupid.

i made a factual claim that cc closed 500+ stores and laid off 30,000 workers. you then made up some lie that all the stores were purchased by walmart & best buy and all the employees were re-hired. prove it!

who cares if one sold electronics and other sold cars?? they could be selling donuts and share the same business model!!!!!!

you don't see why i brought up circuit city? you are seriously a nincumpoop. take business 101 and get back to me.

what a dope.

[rsnnh12]

so where would they place the 30,000 additional workers, stuff them all in their current stores???? you are stupid.

i made a factual claim that cc closed 500+ stores and laid off 30,000 workers. you then made up some lie that all the stores were purchased by walmart & best buy and all the employees were re-hired. prove it!

who cares if one sold electronics and other sold cars?? they could be selling donuts and share the same business model!!!!!!

you don't see why i brought up circuit city? you are seriously a nincumpoop. take business 101 and get back to me.

what a dope.

Please tell me where I said their competition bought up their stores

They took over the MARKET SHARE, not the physical stores. That means that the same amount of electronics were being sold, just through stores other than CC. What happens when the car makers stop making cars? Will we just have to deal with 10 million cars produced per year rather than 20 million? (Both are made up figures, but illustrate my point). Someone will produce those cars, because there is a need for them. To build them, they need equipment and personnel, which would all be left behind by the 3 failed companies.

Your analogy is awful. Find an example of a company like GM, Ford, Sony, etc that actually produced a significant portion of the market share, went bankrupt, and no other company took over the manufacturing that was lost by the failed company, and find one for an industry that wasn't dying. THAT would be a proper analogy, not this ridiculous crap of a middle man versus a manufacturer AND middle man in one.

Odds crustyme doesn't respond to anything relevant and makes more crap up
Yes -10000
No+20000

[crustyme]

Please tell me where I said their competition bought up their stores

They took over the MARKET SHARE, not the physical stores. That means that the same amount of electronics were being sold, just through stores other than CC. What happens when the car makers stop making cars? Will we just have to deal with 10 million cars produced per year rather than 20 million? (Both are made up figures, but illustrate my point). Someone will produce those cars, because there is a need for them. To build them, they need equipment and personnel, which would all be left behind by the 3 failed companies.

Your analogy is awful. Find an example of a company like Sony, that actually produced a significant portion of the market share, went bankrupt, and no other company took over the manufacturing that was lost by the failed company, and find one for an industry that wasn't dying. THAT would be a proper analogy, not this ridiculous crap of a middle man versus a manufacturer AND middle man in one.

Odds crustyme doesn't respond to anything relevant and makes more crap up
Yes -10000
No+20000

you are a moron.

you made the following assumption:

Why do you assume no one would have taken over the car companies if they went bankrupt? do you think that no one would want to try to fill the void of millions of cars per year and HUGE profits lost that those 3 going down would have left for the taking?

i made the cc analogy to show that even a company with #2 market share doesn't get taken over and their laid off workers re-hired after going bankrupt. because they don't need to buy them to gain market share. just like there's no guarantee that the big 3 would be taken over nor their out of work employees hired.

you actually made a valid point when you said, cc customers can simply go to best buy or walmart. just like the big 3 customers can simply go to honda, toyota and dozen others. so why would they need to take over the big 3? what do they offer that honda/toyota can't? their cars, trucks and suvs are far superior to the big 3 anyways.

plus they don't even need to hire more workers as honda/toyota and others can simply ramp up production in all their global factories to meet the demand as they've done in the past. this can of course cause shortages as demand exceeds supply which causes car prices to spike. so not only do millions of americans go on unemployment but we pay more for cars. great idea!

if not for obama's bailouts and cash 4 clunkers, the auto industry may still be losing millions in sales which means honda/toyota may not even have to ramp up productions. but that's what happens when the entire industry is slumping just like the electronics industry was when circuit city went belly up.


btw, still waiting for you to post those links, bitch.

[DwightShrute]

[rsnnh12]

you are a moron.

you made the following assumption:



i made the cc analogy to show that even a company with #2 market share doesn't get taken over and their laid off workers re-hired after going bankrupt. because they don't need to buy them to gain market share. just like there's no guarantee that the big 3 would be taken over nor their out of work employees hired.

you actually made a valid point when you said, cc customers can simply go to best buy or walmart. just like the big 3 customers can simply go to honda, toyota and dozen others. so why would they need to take over the big 3? what do they offer that honda/toyota can't? their cars, trucks and suvs are far superior to the big 3 anyways.

plus they don't even need to hire more workers as honda/toyota and others can simply ramp up production in all their global factories to meet the demand as they've done in the past. this can of course cause shortages as demand exceeds supply which causes car prices to spike. so not only do millions of americans go on unemployment but we pay more for cars. great idea!

if not for obama's bailouts and cash 4 clunkers, the auto industry may still be losing millions in sales which means honda/toyota may not even have to ramp up productions. but that's what happens when the entire industry is slumping just like the electronics industry was when circuit city went belly up.


btw, still waiting for you to post those links, bitch.

I don't get how you aren't comprehending this. You are comparing a retail store to a manufacturer. They are not the same! Why do people buy Ford's instead of Toyota's? Why do they buy Samsung TVs instead of Sony? Its because of the brand, not where they bought it. A Samsung TV sold at Best Buy is the exact same as one sold at Circuit City. A Ford is NOT the same as a Toyota, no matter where its sold. Do you get that? You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Your example would work if Circuit City not only sold electronics, but manufactured them as well. That is what car companies do, they manufacture and sell. If the production goes down, supply goes down, right? See, in a free market, savvy business people find where there is less supply, and find a way to increase it. This is called competition. They want a piece of the market share. You assume no other cars would be manufactured, because simply "ramping up production" as you put it, doesn't mean a factory can double its production. What happens when they open up a new factory to handle the demand? Oh yeah, they'll HIRE PEOPLE.

Again, please find an example of a company that produced a good chunk of the goods in its industry, that went bankrupt, and no other companies filled the void. I'll wait

I don't get what you want links to. You think people followed around every unemployed CC employee and reported on their job hunting? Its retail, dude, not rocket science. I think its more plausible that they found another retail job, you seem to think that they sat there with their thumbs up their asses.

[crustyme]

I don't get how you aren't comprehending this. You are comparing a retail store to a manufacturer. They are not the same! Why do people buy Ford's instead of Toyota's? Why do they buy Samsung TVs instead of Sony? Its because of the brand, not where they bought it. A Samsung TV sold at Best Buy is the exact same as one sold at Circuit City. A Ford is NOT the same as a Toyota, no matter where its sold. Do you get that? You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Your example would work if Circuit City not only sold electronics, but manufactured them as well. That is what car companies do, they manufacture and sell. If the production goes down, supply goes down, right? See, in a free market, savvy business people find where there is less supply, and find a way to increase it. This is called competition. They want a piece of the market share. You assume no other cars would be manufactured, because simply "ramping up production" as you put it, doesn't mean a factory can double its production. What happens when they open up a new factory to handle the demand? Oh yeah, they'll HIRE PEOPLE.

Again, please find an example of a company that produced a good chunk of the goods in its industry, that went bankrupt, and no other companies filled the void. I'll wait

I don't get what you want links to. You think people followed around every unemployed CC employee and reported on their job hunting? Its retail, dude, not rocket science. I think its more plausible that they found another retail job, you seem to think that they sat there with their thumbs up their asses.

wow, you just don't get it do you?

it's like someone saying dolphins have a similar social structure as humans and you saying "no they don't cause dolphins have fins and live in the water and humans do not!"

you are officially stupid.

[rsnnh12]

wow, you just don't get it do you?

it's like someone saying dolphins have a similar social structure as humans and you saying "no they don't cause dolphins have fins and live in the water and humans do not!"

you are officially stupid.

Another intelligent rebuttal from crustyme

Why can't you post an example like I requested? It shouldn't be that hard for a brilliant economic mind like yours.

All I want is a manufacturing company, with a sizable chunk of market share, that went bankrupt, and no other existing or startup companies filled the void. That is what you are claiming would have happened if the big 3 failed.

[crustyme]

I don't get how you aren't comprehending this. You are comparing a retail store to a manufacturer. They are not the same! Why do people buy Ford's instead of Toyota's? Why do they buy Samsung TVs instead of Sony? Its because of the brand, not where they bought it. A Samsung TV sold at Best Buy is the exact same as one sold at Circuit City. A Ford is NOT the same as a Toyota, no matter where its sold. Do you get that? You're comparing apples to oranges here.

did buyers of oldsmobile, pontiac, saturn, mercury, eagle, and hummer stop buying cars because their brands were eliminated? of course not, you retard. they moved on and bought something else. avg car buyer has owned more than 1 brand in their lifetime (i've owned 7 myself).

if you think people buy ford over gm cause of brand only, you are a complete moron who has never purchased a car in his life.

it's not apples to oranges, you retard. im comparing very successful leaders in their respective industries (at one time) going bankrupt and not being absorbed by their competitors. you're too stupid to understand this.

Your example would work if Circuit City not only sold electronics, but manufactured them as well. That is what car companies do, they manufacture and sell. If the production goes down, supply goes down, right? See, in a free market, savvy business people find where there is less supply, and find a way to increase it. This is called competition. They want a piece of the market share. You assume no other cars would be manufactured, because simply "ramping up production" as you put it, doesn't mean a factory can double its production. What happens when they open up a new factory to handle the demand? Oh yeah, they'll HIRE PEOPLE.

again, retardo, it doesn't matter if it's retail store or the manufacturer. they are all businesses with the same goal. do you think earning $10 million selling donuts is any different than $10 million in computers?????

what you continue to fail to grasp is that the auto industry lost 3 million sales in 2008. so the market shrunk by 20%. companies like toyota were even shutting down production for weeks due to poor sales. 2009 also got off to another poor start and may have very well dropped another 3 million sales without obama's cash 4 clunkers. so even had the big 3 gone bankrupt, the market was small enough that each manufacturer could ramp up production minimally to meet any jump in sales. they certainly don't need to buy the big 3 or hire millions of workers.

Again, please find an example of a company that produced a good chunk of the goods in its industry, that went bankrupt, and no other companies filled the void. I'll wait

midway games, ziff-davis, wilson's leather, sharper image, levitz furniture, 3do.... owned bitch.

I don't get what you want links to. You think people followed around every unemployed CC employee and reported on their job hunting? Its retail, dude, not rocket science. I think its more plausible that they found another retail job, you seem to think that they sat there with their thumbs up their asses.

yeah i know even monkeys like you can ring up the cash register but that doesn't mean cc's competitors had 30,000 positions to hire all the people that lost jobs.

in other words, you were talking out of your ass again.

[rsnnh12]

I'm done with you, crusty. Your retard logic is just annoying. You think that because all businesses try to make money, that there is no difference between different sectors, industries, and parts of the business cycle. You think that no one would try to take over a failed Ford or GM, despite the ridiculous amount of market share that would be up for grabs, not to mention the value of the name of the brand itself. And lastly, you think the dot com boom and bust had no significance to the economy.

I think its obvious to anyone still reading this ridiculously boring thread that you have no fukking clue what you are talking about