POLL: What's your #1 reason for not supporting Ron Paul?

[jw]

PokerJoe/JW are classic examples of why those that don't pay any income taxes should have NO SAY in how our government is run.

The Republican party can go **** themselves

In Mr Flip-Flops world .. being pretty much retired or being self-sufficient = drain on society ... no wonder he does not want people have access to healthcare ... once you have retired .. you should curl up in a corner and die .. death panels on a massive scale .. maybe the GOP should be building gas chambers and taking all of the retired people on day trips on trains out to the countryside so that they can be "cleansed" ?

Yes, with deductibles and co-payments, some policies require maximum out of pocket expenses of $5,000-$10,000. While that might sound like a lot, if your life is ever threatened, you will realize that the cost is a minor issue as you're looking for the highest quality medical care you can find which is exactly what the current system provides.

Its amazing to me how "The Rich" live in this little bubble where $5k-$10k is something that you can just magic out of think air ... how the other half live .... hey Mr flip-flop .. if 60% of the US population would be unable to raise $1k in an emergency ... what percentage do you think would be able to raise $5k .. or $10k ...

.. my guess would be that only the top 10% of the population (maybe even just the top 5%) would be able to afford basic healthcare if their life depended on it ... and as I can see .. that's just fine with you and your kind ...

Personally - i'm good ... I've got decent health insurance, I've access to plenty of money if I need it, as a last resort I can even fly to the UK and be treated free as I still hold a UK passport on top of my US passport .. however my #1 consideration when I vote is healthcare and access to healthcare by those who are unable to provide for themselves.

[jarvol]

Second, yes, EVERYONE should get pay for their health care.

Just like every other good and service they consume. They should pay for it.....and lean on their family, friends, and tax-exempt churches and charities not the taxpayer.

[rsnnh12]

So because the average American is too stupid to save and would rather have a big flat screen, $150 month/cable, an iPhone with a $100/month bill, and a $300/month car payment, that means that they should get free health care?

Why should others be forced to take care of the health care of these people?

Personal. Fukking. Responsibility. Giving people more "free" shit will only make it worse.

[jw]

So because the average American is too stupid to save and would rather have a big flat screen, $150 month/cable, an iPhone with a $100/month bill, and a $300/month car payment, that means that they should get free health care?

Why should others be forced to take care of the health care of these people?

Personal. Fukking. Responsibility. Giving people more "free" shit will only make it worse.

.. and this my friend is where we have a fundamentally different outlook on "life" .. you would rather see people bankrupt or die because they are unable to come up with a few thousand dollars .. I wouldn't ...

[rsnnh12]

.. and this my friend is where we have a fundamentally different outlook on "life" .. you would rather see people bankrupt or die because they are unable to come up with a few thousand dollars .. I wouldn't ...

That's not true at all. I would like to see people take care of themselves, rather than feel entitled to everything. If 60% of Americans don't have access to $1k, in 90% of those cases, its their own damn fault. They don't know how to live within their means. If they choose a 50" LCD over saving for an emergency, that's their own damn fault. More and more people feel like they deserve all the luxuries in life, without having to make the sacrifices that go along with it.

If I can have access to a few thousand dollars in my savings as a full time college student, there's no excuse for people already with careers.

[King Mayan]

That's not true at all. I would like to see people take care of themselves, rather than feel entitled to everything. If 60% of Americans don't have access to $1k, in 90% of those cases, its their own damn fault. They don't know how to live within their means. If they choose a 50" LCD over saving for an emergency, that's their own damn fault. More and more people feel like they deserve all the luxuries in life, without having to make the sacrifices that go along with it.

If I can have access to a few thousand dollars in my savings as a full time college student, there's no excuse for people already with careers.

How did you get a few thousand as a full time college student?? Parents??

[Waterstpub87]

.. and this my friend is where we have a fundamentally different outlook on "life" .. you would rather see people bankrupt or die because they are unable to come up with a few thousand dollars .. I wouldn't ...

Its really compassionate to feel that you should take money from one group and use to it to pay for services for another group. Specifically when its not your money involved.

[jw]

That's not true at all. I would like to see people take care of themselves, rather than feel entitled to everything. If 60% of Americans don't have access to $1k, in 90% of those cases, its their own damn fault. They don't know how to live within their means. If they choose a 50" LCD over saving for an emergency, that's their own damn fault. More and more people feel like they deserve all the luxuries in life, without having to make the sacrifices that go along with it.

If I can have access to a few thousand dollars in my savings as a full time college student, there's no excuse for people already with careers.

You are making assumptions that most people that are unable to pull together $1000 have a 50" plasma TV ... Republicans love to do this ... 20% of the population live below the poverty line in this country .... ($20k income for a family of four) These are not plasma TV people .. with all due respect ... when I was in college .. I had a shitload of spare cash ..

A wise man once said .... "with no responsibility .. comes much beer money" ;0)

[jw]

Its really compassionate to feel that you should take money from one group and use to it to pay for services for another group. Specifically when its not your money involved.

I'ts also really compassionate to take money from one group and use it to pay for your child's education/upkeep .. however you do this with property taxes ... and tax breaks for having kids ...

What's the difference ?

[crustyme]

So because the average American is too stupid to save and would rather have a big flat screen, $150 month/cable, an iPhone with a $100/month bill, and a $300/month car payment, that means that they should get free health care?

Why should others be forced to take care of the health care of these people?

Personal. Fukking. Responsibility. Giving people more "free" shit will only make it worse.

obviously this clueless moron has never held a job or lived on his own without handouts from mommy and daddy.

avg american lives paycheck to paycheck, with no savings, no cable, no cell phones, no cars... barely able to keep their family clothed, fed and a roof over their heads. so if you think they got $300-$500/month to provide healthcare for themselves and their children then you are a dumbfuk.

maybe you'll understand how tought it is out there once you move out of your mommy's basement.

[rsnnh12]

How did you get a few thousand as a full time college student?? Parents??

Nope. Don't get any help from my parents, unless you count them paying for dinner the 1 night every other month they visit

Its really not hard to save money if you're motivated to. I paid for my car in cash at 16, because I started working at 14. Still runs, so no reason to get a new one. I buy mostly chicken, beef, rice, potatoes, and fruits/veggies, all of which can be bought for cheap when on sale. As a lifter, i assume you know how to get a lot of food for cheap, right? Its essential to the lifestyle. I use coupons, save probably $30/wk just with that. I work 60 hours a week in the summer, 20-30 during the school year. Pays my rent, food, cell/cable, gas, car insurance, plus beer money. I do get health insurance as a full time student, but I still pay a few hundred a semester for it.

Its not hard to do, although I don't go to Vegas/Cancun like many of my friends do, I don't get hammered at bars (how often have you seen people blow $100+ a night on drinks?), and I don't have a brand new Maxima with $300/mo payments like many college kids do.

I'm not saying I don't ever waste money, I have many times on stupid crap, but I learned from that and am much more careful about what I spend on. There are a LOT of people out there much much smarter and much harder working than me, so if I can do it, they should be able to as well.

[Waterstpub87]

I'ts also really compassionate to take money from one group and use it to pay for your child's education/upkeep .. however you do this with property taxes ... and tax breaks for having kids ... What's the difference ?

Don't have kids. Don't think you should get tax breaks for having them. As for education, property taxes are a local issue. If a municipality wanted to not tax properties for education and the people there voted on it, I wouldn't have a problem.

[rsnnh12]

You are making assumptions that most people that are unable to pull together $1000 have a 50" plasma TV ... Republicans love to do this ... 20% of the population live below the poverty line in this country .... ($20k income for a family of four) These are not plasma TV people .. with all due respect ... when I was in college .. I had a shitload of spare cash ..

A wise man once said .... "with no responsibility .. comes much beer money" ;0)

You said 60% of Americans. Obviously the poorest don't have $1k available, but when you say 60%, you're talking people making 50+ thousand dollars a year. What is their excuse?

[jarvol]

avg american lives paycheck to paycheck, with no savings, no cable, no cell phones, no cars....

You got some statistics to back up that false claim.

[rsnnh12]

obviously this clueless moron has never held a job or lived on his own without handouts from mommy and daddy.

avg american lives paycheck to paycheck, with no savings, no cable, no cell phones, no cars... barely able to keep their family clothed, fed and a roof over their heads. so if you think they got $300-$500/month to provide healthcare for themselves and their children then you are a dumbfuk.

maybe you'll understand how tought it is out there once you move out of your mommy's basement.

See my response to Mayan, please.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck, why the fuk are you having kids?!? If you can't afford the cost of a child, maybe you should wear a condom? Or at least pull out?

Do you seriously think the average American doesn't have cable, a cell, or a car?? You're joking, right?

Again, it all comes down to personal responsibility. I am all for helping people who need it, but when it becomes a majority of the people that think they need and deserve help, there is a problem with the system and mindset of the people.

[Dutch]

... much of what Ron Paul says and believes is not very popular among Republicans.

So you agree if he somehow got elected he'd have very few friends in Congress and the Senate and would have no way to push thru his ideas?

Presidents have very little real power, they use their influence to "direct" the members of congress and the senate. Ron Paul would have an impossible time of making anything happen.

The man will not win the Republican ticket.

[JoeVig]

We've obviously reached the point where enough people have learned they can vote themselves largesse largesse out of the public coffers. Rather than fighting to let you keep your money, both parties are in competition to bring home as much money from everyone else as possible.

They will never straighten out the tax code because there is so much power imparted by it. If you make less than X, they will give you tax credits without paying anything (= democrat votes). If you make over Y, well you are probably smart enough to hire someone to use all kinds of deductions offered (= republican votes).

I'm moving, because this country is screwed. I have heard your money goes pretty far in Ecuador.

[EmpireMaker]

Paul is either one of the biggest stoners ever or he is just batshit crazy neither case appeals to me. He would surely ruin the US/World economic system and cause chaos.

[jw]

Do you seriously think the average American doesn't have cable, a cell, or a car?? You're joking, right?

http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

Once again - the world you are living in is not the same world that everyone lives in .. here is an article stating that 56% of the population do not have "cable" tv ... and there are articles all over the net about "pay" tv being deserted in huge numbers so that people can live day to day ....

http://cable.tmcnet.com/topics/cable/articles/206779-record-number-us-subscribers-giving-up-cable-satellite.htm

Record Number of US Subscribers Giving Up Cable, Satellite TV

[EmpireMaker]

If Paul Palin or Bachman are elected this country is finished, nails in the coffin finished. Hopefully there are enough rational people left to not let this happen.

[neverstoppers23]

Please give us a detailed explanation as to why not? The current system has been proven over and over again that it is neither effective nor sustainable.

I am not understanding why you think the current system is failing?

We are in an economic down turn, for the last few years, but we have definitely been growing and we definitely saved us from a deep depression with the TARP package. The economy will always go in cycles.

I could list about a million reasons why I believe and many others believe libertarianism isn't a valid form of govern ship. But really its not worth it, because anything I say you will just say something clever or just bash it. I have tried to talk to Ron Paul freaks before and its always the same.

[crustyme]

See my response to Mayan, please.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck, why the fuk are you having kids?!? If you can't afford the cost of a child, maybe you should wear a condom? Or at least pull out?

Do you seriously think the average American doesn't have cable, a cell, or a car?? You're joking, right?

Again, it all comes down to personal responsibility. I am all for helping people who need it, but when it becomes a majority of the people that think they need and deserve help, there is a problem with the system and mindset of the people.

so poor people shouldn't have kids? what happened to freedom? maybe you'd like to institute the 1 child policy of communist china.

what about the millions of catholics who are forbidden from using contraceptives of any kind? should they all be castrated unless they can prove they make enough money to support them?

what about people who could afford them then fell on hard times after being laid off? should they go drown their kids since they can't afford them any longer?

and this is funny coming from a neo-twit who opposes abortion. you have no problem forcing people to give birth to babies they can't afford but wont take responsibility in helping to raise them.

and if you believe condoms or "pulling out" is 100% effective then you've obviously never had sex or sex education before.

you are grossly out of touch with reality if you think an avg american family can afford all the luxuries you've mentioned. but then you're just a know it all punk kid whose mommy pays your rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc.

once you move out of mommy's basement and have to pay for everything, your "20 hour per week" couldn't afford a cardboard box on skid row. i have a feeling your transition to adulthood will be a difficult one.

[agharah1]

Reason #1: He endorses the gold standard, which is nothing short of an economic crime against humanity.

[crustyme]

http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

Once again - the world you are living in is not the same world that everyone lives in .. here is an article stating that 56% of the population do not have "cable" tv ... and there are articles all over the net about "pay" tv being deserted in huge numbers so that people can live day to day ....

http://cable.tmcnet.com/topics/cable/articles/206779-record-number-us-subscribers-giving-up-cable-satellite.htm

Record Number of US Subscribers Giving Up Cable, Satellite TV

ouch.

the know-it-all punk kid whose mommy pays the rent, utilities, school, car, insurance, food, clothes.... got pwn'd big time.

[falconticket]

http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

Once again - the world you are living in is not the same world that everyone lives in .. here is an article stating that 56% of the population do not have "cable" tv ... and there are articles all over the net about "pay" tv being deserted in huge numbers so that people can live day to day ....

http://cable.tmcnet.com/topics/cable/articles/206779-record-number-us-subscribers-giving-up-cable-satellite.htm

Record Number of US Subscribers Giving Up Cable, Satellite TV

Nice reading comprehension skills there. The article says 56% of americans pay for cable tv. I guess since my american daughter doesn't pay for cable tv she is part of the 44%. In actuality though 77% of us households have pay tv service. The second article you posted points out that people are moving more to internet based services.

[jarvol]

so poor people shouldn't have kids? what happened to freedom? maybe you'd like to institute the 1 child policy of communist china.

what about the millions of catholics who are forbidden from using contraceptives of any kind? should they all be castrated unless they can prove they make enough money to support them?

what about people who could afford them then fell on hard times after being laid off? should they go drown their kids since they can't afford them any longer?

and this is funny coming from a neo-twit who opposes abortion. you have no problem forcing people to give birth to babies they can't afford but wont take responsibility in helping to raise them.

and if you believe condoms or "pulling out" is 100% effective then you've obviously never had sex or sex education before.

you are grossly out of touch with reality if you think an avg american family can afford all the luxuries you've mentioned. but then you're just a know it all punk kid whose mommy pays your rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc.

once you move out of mommy's basement and have to pay for everything, your "20 hour per week" couldn't afford a cardboard box on skid row. i have a feeling your transition to adulthood will be a difficult one.

It isn't anybody's right to have children in America. If you can't afford to raise them then don't have them. It really is that simple just like if you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. American taxpayers aren't responsible to pay for the beliefs of Catholics so they can live an irresponsible life.

If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you don't believe in contraception then don't have sex.
People have 5 options in times of need and the taxpayers shouldn't be one of them:
1. Personal responsibility
2. Family
3. Friends
4. Tax-exempt charities
5. Tax-exempt churches

[jw]

Nice reading comprehension skills there. The article says 56% of americans pay for cable tv.

44/56 .. irrelevant .. my point stands .... a huge number of Americans are living at or below the poverty line.
The Republicans assume anyone getting any kind of benefit is sat in the lap of luxury waiting for them to earn a little more so that they can get their next check from the government .. real life is not like this ...

20% of Americans really are scraping by day to day ... that is 60 million+ people .... are there people abusing the system and doing nicely for themselves .. sure there are ... but there are a huge number who are not ... maybe even through no fault of their own.

What do you do with mentally handicapped people ... ? Those with disabilities ... let them die ?
25 million people have a severe disability .. should we just let them fend for themselves ?

[Facepunch]

Not a lot of compelling arguments against RP.

[crustyme]

It isn't anybody's right to have children in America. If you can't afford to raise them then don't have them. It really is that simple just like if you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. American taxpayers aren't responsible to pay for the beliefs of Catholics so they can live an irresponsible life.

If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you don't believe in contraception then don't have sex.
People have 5 options in times of need and the taxpayers shouldn't be one of them:
1. Personal responsibility
2. Family
3. Friends
4. Tax-exempt charities
5. Tax-exempt churches

so people should only have kids based on your criteria: financial situation and not love & family? what about people who have lost their high paying jobs and no longer can afford them, should we drown them?



but then why do you neocons oppose abortion? why force a teen to give birth to a baby that she knows she can't afford? sounds like hypocricy to me.

unless you think contraception is 100% effective.... which means you should repeat sex ed class.

and there are 77.7 million catholics in the us who believe that constraception is a sin. so you want them to go against their religious beliefs because you think your beliefs should trump theirs? how pompous of you. we have religious freedom in this country, guaranteed by the founding fathers of this country. personally, i think all religions are fairytales but neocons like you push your religious agenda on the rest of the us. so very hypocritical of you to deny catholics their rights and freedom.

[crustyme]

44/56 .. irrelevant .. my point stands .... a huge number of Americans are living at or below the poverty line.
The Republicans assume anyone getting any kind of benefit is sat in the lap of luxury waiting for them to earn a little more so that they can get their next check from the government .. real life is not like this ...

20% of Americans really are scraping by day to day ... that is 60 million+ people .... are there people abusing the system and doing nicely for themselves .. sure there are ... but there are a huge number who are not ... maybe even through no fault of their own.

What do you do with mentally handicapped people ... ? Those with disabilities ... let them die ?
25 million people have a severe disability .. should we just let them fend for themselves ?

exactly.

avg americans can't afford $30 for cable but somehow they can afford $300-$500 a month for health insurance?

[rsnnh12]

so poor people shouldn't have kids? what happened to freedom? maybe you'd like to institute the 1 child policy of communist china.

what about the millions of catholics who are forbidden from using contraceptives of any kind? should they all be castrated unless they can prove they make enough money to support them?

what about people who could afford them then fell on hard times after being laid off? should they go drown their kids since they can't afford them any longer?

and this is funny coming from a neo-twit who opposes abortion. you have no problem forcing people to give birth to babies they can't afford but wont take responsibility in helping to raise them.

and if you believe condoms or "pulling out" is 100% effective then you've obviously never had sex or sex education before.

you are grossly out of touch with reality if you think an avg american family can afford all the luxuries you've mentioned. but then you're just a know it all punk kid whose mommy pays your rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc.

once you move out of mommy's basement and have to pay for everything, your "20 hour per week" couldn't afford a cardboard box on skid row. i have a feeling your transition to adulthood will be a difficult one.

Oh look, crusty is making shit up again. I am pro-choice. I think abortion is a necessary evil. Oh no, looks like I don't fit your endless "neocon" ramblings, huh? Don't worry, smart guy, you'll eventually learn that your stereotypes are wrong.

Glad your reading comprehension hasn't improved at all. I pay for all of my own stuff. I pay my rent, I pay all my bills, with no help from mommy. I know this is a concept you don't understand, but you can work more than 40 hours a week. They have this thing called overtime, you actually get 1.5 times normal pay, if not more. Maybe you should find a job that offers that? I love how you take the bare minimum of what I said (the 20-30 hours a week while in school) and ignore the 60+ during summer. Making almost a grand a week during the summer allows someone who isn't mentally challenged to save for the rest of the year.

[crustyme]

Oh look, crusty is making shit up again. I am pro-choice. I think abortion is a necessary evil. Oh no, looks like I don't fit your endless "neocon" ramblings, huh? Don't worry, smart guy, you'll eventually learn that your stereotypes are wrong.

Glad your reading comprehension hasn't improved at all. I pay for all of my own stuff. I pay my rent, I pay all my bills, with no help from mommy. I know this is a concept you don't understand, but you can work more than 40 hours a week. They have this thing called overtime, you actually get 1.5 times normal pay, if not more. Maybe you should find a job that offers that? I love how you take the bare minimum of what I said (the 20-30 hours a week while in school) and ignore the 60+ during summer. Making almost a grand a week during the summer allows someone who isn't mentally challenged to save for the rest of the year.

there's no way in hell anyone can afford all the things you mentioned (school, housing, books, car, car insurance, health insurance, food, clothes, etc.) working 20 hours a week unless you live in some squalor with 10 other people. but then bullshitting is your major.

[rsnnh12]

http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

Once again - the world you are living in is not the same world that everyone lives in .. here is an article stating that 56% of the population do not have "cable" tv ... and there are articles all over the net about "pay" tv being deserted in huge numbers so that people can live day to day ....

http://cable.tmcnet.com/topics/cable/articles/206779-record-number-us-subscribers-giving-up-cable-satellite.htm

Record Number of US Subscribers Giving Up Cable, Satellite TV

Did you even read the link? The average person has the TV on for more than 4 hours a day. 49% say they watch too much TV. There are actually more TVs per household than people, and yet you want to argue that the average American has their priorities in line? Cmon now, you can't be serious.

[jw]

you want to argue that the average American has their priorities in line? Cmon now, you can't be serious.

I'm not arguing for the average American .. i'm arguing for the 60 million or so that are living on or below the poverty line.

[dj_destroyer]

1. who is going to pay for cops, firemen, teachers, garbage pickup, sewage cleanup, mail delivery, roads, bridges, street lights, lawyers, judges, courts, dmv, government workers, etc.? the tax fairy? maybe pay per use? like you can afford all these services on your measly income?

2. delaying the inevitable? so we should let millions of people lose their jobs because the system becomes sluggish? so you're prepared to ride your bike everywhere without an auto industry? and forget about getting mortgages or loans since there would be no banks considering they would no longer exist without bailouts. so what you're saying is you basically want another great depression with 70% unemployment because you have nostagia for the 30s.



3. deregulation of banking laws by idiot neocons led to this mess not economists. they're the ones who tried to warn dumbya.

4. us supreme court disagrees with you.

5. so you disagree with his #1 view and yet you still want to elect him?



ron paul is a whackjob and so are his followers apparently.

1. The small flat tax will pay for policing, judicial systems, and corrections. It will also support military/national defense. Beyond that, there's no moral, legal, or logical justification for everyone to pay for the things you mentioned arbitrarily. Transit infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.) for example, should be pay-per-use or have a monthly or yearly plan like everything else in the world. Why should some people pay for roads so that others can use them? Basically, everything can be more efficient and effective if privatized; but not only that, it can be more fair and moral.

2. I want companies and individuals alike to be responsible and accountable for their actions. If you let the major banks fail, new banks will open in their place. If American auto companies were allowed to fail like they were suppose to, we'd be getting our cars from China and the European auto industries where they make better cars for less. Americans proved that they couldn't compete so instead of accepting the truth, US governments hid the truth under the rug and built up the auto sector on an artificial foundation. Anytime you prop up anything with artificial help, you're denying basic free market principles.

3. No one warned of anything except for fiscal conservatists like Ron Paul who predicted the housing crisis and the recession dating back to 1983 but explicitly told all the big economists that inflating the bubble with false credit would damage America severely.

4. 9 judges who get APPOINTED (not elected) for life get to run the world? They've been brainwashed just as bad as the rest of you lemming Americans. Social security is bankrupting your country. People need to work and defend for themselves, it's not fukking hard! You get a job and you work your ass off... and when you're so tired and burnt, you work some more! I'm tired of these pansy-ass welfare-leaching crooks living off the back of the rest of us.

5. You don't understand the crux of Dr. Paul's argument. As it stands now, the US is paying off their debt by going more into debt and Ron Paul thinks that should stop, which would result in defaulting. I agree with him completely that the US shouldn't raise the debt ceiling, but I believe they should pay off their loans instead of defaulting (something that is impossible, I believe). On the grand scale of things, I agree completely with Ron Paul. Too many lemmings don't understand him though... Yes, he's pro-life; yes, he's against gay marriage; yes, he is allowed to have his own personal opinions and I don't necessarily agree with him -- but that is why he believes in federalism and that all these decisions should be left to the states. The federal government has bigger things to worry about like national security and law regulating.

12on Paul