Pavy and other soccer guys...

pavyracer · 07-19-11, 08:47 AM

I would say MLS is more like A minor league baseball.

MLB = Premier League, Spanish, Italian, German, French
AAA = Portugal, Russian, Dutch, England Championship
AA = Sweden, Poland, Greece, Turkey, Austria, Switzerland, Norway
A = Finland, Czech, Ukraine, Belarus, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania

MLS is the same type of soccer you will see in A.

The MLS will make it but will always be in the shadow of NFL, MLB and NBA. The problem is everyone knows who are the best college football players and the best college basketball players in this country and they follow them in the Pro leagues. Can you name the best college soccer player now?

thetrinity · 07-19-11, 09:23 AM

mls has made great strides since it started. will always be in the shadows IMO. its definitely a or aa at best.

Doc JS · 07-19-11, 09:31 AM

I, who know absolutely NOTHING about soccer, could tell in the first few minutes that this was a "men vs boys" kinda match-up. Maybe not a 1 vs 16 match-up in the NCAA tournament, but close...

Jay Price · 07-19-11, 09:33 AM

MLS guru Ives Galarcep interviewed Arsenal's chief scout recently and he thinks MLS squads are on par with upper-tier Championship squads/ lower Prem squads. I don't believe it.

vitalyo · 07-19-11, 09:39 AM

Doc JS you are entering a very dark territory . Non of this top europian clubs care much if they win or lose this games for them it's practice match . They also will not use their top players to full potential main concern not to risk an injury .Back home they got mach bigger fish to fry ,league championship + Champs league.
This games are meaningless to them .

GL.

thetrinity · 07-19-11, 09:44 AM

vitalys right. these games are tune ups only for these euro sides. as for the mls guru i think its complete hogwash. qpr, norwich city, wigan, wolves, would kill these mls teams in meaningful games.

RubberKettle · 07-19-11, 10:43 AM

No point in wagering these matches Doc.

Its very difficult to assess the top English sides vs these MLS teams. Manchester United vs MLS all stars will be a good competitive game and MLS will have a chance to win.

I am going to the Manchester United Barcelona game in DC, but I wouldn't recommend wager on that either.

Doc JS · 07-19-11, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by vitalyo

Doc JS you are entering a very dark territory . Non of this top europian clubs care much if they win or lose this games for them it's practice match . They also will not use their top players to full potential main concern not to risk an injury .Back home they got mach bigger fish to fry ,league championship + Champs league.
This games are meaningless to them .

GL.

Agreed! And ManU backhanded New England and they weren't even trying...

spartangreen · 07-19-11, 11:11 AM

MLS has improved a lot over the years, some decent talent. but still would be like mid level minor leagues.

icsiat · 07-19-11, 11:50 AM

good answer.
thank you

Originally posted by pavyracer

I would say MLS is more like A minor league baseball.

MLB = Premier League, Spanish, Italian, German, French
AAA = Portugal, Russian, Dutch, England Championship
AA = Sweden, Poland, Greece, Turkey, Austria, Switzerland, Norway
A = Finland, Czech, Ukraine, Belarus, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania

MLS is the same type of soccer you will see in A.

The MLS will make it but will always be in the shadow of NFL, MLB and NBA. The problem is everyone knows who are the best college football players and the best college basketball players in this country and they follow them in the Pro leagues. Can you name the best college soccer player now?

BetterBizness · 07-19-11, 01:08 PM

I would argue though, that as good as the comparison is, it basically ends there. The difference in logistics is their affiliations, and the root of it all, $$$ ... Are Becks and Henry's "A" players?

Look at the 50's when the CFL was a BETTER league than the NFL... Miss St. RB/QB//DB/K Jackie Parker went to play in Canada because they actually paid MORE than the NFL...

60 years ago sure, but now the NFL is a Billion(s) $ business... as is the EPL, La Liga etc... As more money starts coming into MLS (or should I say, being paid out), MLS goes from A, to AAA, to MLB (useing same comparison) in maybe 10-15-20 years... Unlike "True" affliation programs which can never move outside of what they are, development systems ... MLS could, with time, move out of the "developmental" phase...

goucla · 07-19-11, 01:42 PM

its possible but lets hope not, i like to c the us get clobbered sometimes

goblue12 · 07-19-11, 02:04 PM

Average players salaries by league tell the story.

MLS is somewhere between Championship and League One.

Still light years ahead of where we were 10 years ago.

EPL: 676,000 euros
Championship: 195,650 euros
MLS: 81,215 euros
League One: 67,850 euros
League Two: 49,600 euros

BetterBizness · 07-19-11, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by goblue12

Average players salaries by league tell the story.

MLS is somewhere between Championship and League One.

Still light years ahead of where we were 10 years ago.

EPL: 676,000 euros
Championship: 195,650 euros
MLS: 81,215 euros
League One: 67,850 euros
League Two: 49,600 euros

Great point... I pretty much can guarantee that not all, but at least SOME players in 10 years will consider playing in MLS for a Million Euro's a year instead of Europe... in particular the North American grown players... You want a comparible league to EPL, it's literally going to take one player at a time coming over to "stack" the squads... Clearly there are obstacles, such as mere 15,000 person stadiums, but in my take, it's the first time Soccer in the US finally realized that it will take TWENTY PLUS years to grow the game from a business standpoint... Every other bloody league had sketchy owners that figured they could invest some quick dough, run in big stadiums, put some shitty product on the field and the people would come... Took alot of failures to realize that if you build an economical stadium which benefits the game (I.e great field of view from every seat), and made it affordable, Families could truly go to games and make it a fair alternative to the other big 4 ... I used to go to Pizza Hut Park and spend $10 a ticket and get $5 beers a couple of years ago.. No matter where I sat I had a good view of the game.. it's a huge selling feature then trying to sell FC Dallas in a 110,000 Jerry Jumbo Dome when just 8 thousand show up (exaggeration but) ...

Look at this wiki link on MLS averages...

Season Averages

Season Total Gate Games Avg. High avg. Team Low avg. Team Ref
1996 2,785,001 160 17,406 28,916 Los Angeles Galaxy 10,213 Colorado Rapids [2]
1997 2,339,019 160 14,619 21,423 New England Revolution 9,058 Kansas City Wizards [3]
1998 2,747,897 192 14,312 21,784 Los Angeles Galaxy 8,072 Kansas City Wizards [4]
1999 2,742,102 192 14,282 17,696 Columbus Crew 8,183 Kansas City Wizards [5]
2000 2,641,085 192 13,756 20,400 Los Angeles Galaxy 7,460 Miami Fusion [6]
2001 2,363,859 158 14,961 21,518 D.C. United 9,112 Kansas City Wizards [7]
2002 2,215,019 140 15,822 20,690 Colorado Rapids 11,150 San Jose Earthquakes [8]
2003 2,234,747 150 14,898 21,983 Los Angeles Galaxy 7,906 Dallas Burn [9]
2004 2,333,797 150 15,559 23,809 Los Angeles Galaxy 9,088 Dallas Burn [10]
2005 2,900,716 192 15,108 24,204 Los Angeles Galaxy 9,691 Kansas City Wizards [11]
2006 2,976,787 192 15,504 20,814 Los Angeles Galaxy 11,083 Kansas City Wizards [12]
2007 3,270,210 195 16,770 24,252 Los Angeles Galaxy 11,586 Kansas City Wizards [13]
2008 3,456,600 210 16,460 26,008 Los Angeles Galaxy 10,685 Kansas City Wizards
2009 3,608,325 225 16,037 30,942 Seattle Sounders FC 10,053 Kansas City Wizards
2010 4,002,000 240 16,675 36,173 Seattle Sounders FC 9,659 San Jose Earthquakes

Relatively consistently upward for 15 years ,particularly the past 10 years.. from 2.7 Million Gate to 4.0 Million (Almost 80 games more now though because of expansion) ... but from the 2002 low of 2.2 million, that's almost 1.8 Million fans more... or 7500 per game more then 2002... Bigger TV deals etc... the money will come, and they will just be another good option in the future... still a while away though...

pacers101 · 07-19-11, 04:03 PM

great comments, pretty much agree A or AA at best for mls. I don't know if it would be feasible but I think it would help soccer as a whole in the US as far as the fans/fan participation to combine the leagues we have now and have a euro style promotion relegation system. I think the top teams in the lower leagues could stir excitement and get more people to watch if their would be incentive to move up to the 'big time'. and I think fans of relegation zone clubs would be more supportive because they wouldn't want to be relegated. probably never happen and maybe soccer in the US is too young to be able to handle this. but I really like this promotion/relegation system they have in every other country but here.