VIPSports Closing Account

isetcap · 03-27-06, 02:03 PM

First bit of advice is to use a name other than JJ.
Make sure it isn't AK either.

SBR_John · 03-27-06, 02:11 PM

Yea that is a bit complicated. Now the way I understood their policy is you could get a signup bonus at both VIP and Gameday unlike Sportingbet which does not allow cross family signup bonuses.

Give Bill a chance to contact them and asked what gives. Send him your VIP or Gameday acct number to Assistance@Sportsbookreview.com.

I will add that we are working a very high amount of complaints compliments of goofy and confusing marketing ploys. But we will find out what the deal is.

jjs100 · 03-27-06, 02:15 PM

Thanks John for the quick response. It really is impressive that you guys would take the time to help a smalltimer like myself.

Mudcat · 03-27-06, 02:18 PM

I have had a parallel, though not identical experience. Without getting into the blow-by-blow, this group of books told me a long time ago that I would just have to pick one book and stick with it (for whatever reason, I chose BetonGames). Many players have experienced this.

If I were to e-mail Fairdealsports or Gameday or VIP right now and ask if I qualified for the deal which they e-mailed me about, they would just say no and that would be the end of that.

As for this debit on your account against bonuses taken, nothing like that ever happened to me and it sure sounds wrong (to me). If these points aren't outlined in their T&C's, then they need to take responsibility for their own looseness. If these (unwritten) T&C's are saying you weren't eligible for those bonuses, then why were they given in the first place? Their own clerks don't know the rules, but you are supposed to?

Sounds wrong to me. But they're actually a pretty reasonable group so I wouldn't be surprised if it can be worked out.

jjs100 · 03-27-06, 02:27 PM

Mudcat,

Thanks for the info. Your situation sounds exactly like what mine was supposed to be after my initial conversations with support. I had no problem with only using one account, and it seemed like they were just barring me from future bonuses. Fine, not a problem. It just really surprises me that a respected operation would pull something like this.

Here is a copy and paste of their last reply regarding this situation:

We are hereby informing you that we manage 9 different sportsbooks,
which are VIP sports, Wallstreet, BetEuro, Goodasgold, Betgameday,
Betongames, Bet19, Fairdeal and Fivecard Charlie. As you are only
allowed to have one account with us, we transferred the $2300 balance
you had in Betongames to your VIP account and we deducted the $350 total
bonuses you received in Betongames from your VIP account.

Mudcat · 03-27-06, 03:08 PM

First of all, I failed to say, welcome to the forum. I appreciate you outlining your situation is such a calm, coherent manner.

Other than that, I'm on your side. This e-mail they sent you seems reasonable enough in principle; but what they need to do is have their employees read it. If you're not eligible for a bonus, they shouldn't give you a bonus. They should tell you immediately and they should not let you keep taking more bonuses.

This business of adding bonuses but then subtracting them later doesn't sit right with me.

It's not the worst thing I've ever heard of a sportsbook trying to pull - and I don't know if they'll stick to their guns on it - but, unless you're leaving out some key detail (like the new accounts being under different names or something), I think they just need to tighten up their operation and let this go.

Are they actually deducting $50 cash because of an NCAA futures freeplay and another $50 for a horses freeplay? If so, that ain't right at all.

jjs100 · 03-27-06, 04:05 PM

Now this is just screwed up because, as far as I know, the futures bet was supposed to be 10% to $50, not $100. Here is their latest response:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for contacting VIP Sports.

We are hereby informing you that as per house rule #23, you are only
allowed to have one account within the VMS family. Please click on the
following link for a detailed explanation of this rule.

http://info.vipsports.com/en/sports/houserules.htm

The $350 bonus you received in Betongames are the following.

20% Sign up bonus - $200
10% free future wager - $100
10% free horse wager - $50

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact our line
manager. Joe will be in the office between 10 am EST and 4 pm EST on
Thursday.

Kind regards,

Sadira

VIPsports Support

And no, I didnt do anything shady....each account used the exact same info, including username, neteller, address, etc...I did nothing to try to "get around" any rules....I'm really surprised but they seem to be trying to stick to their guns even after 3 or 4 emails...

SBR_John · 03-27-06, 05:16 PM

Rule 23: The company reserves the right to limit any customer to ONE account at a VIP Management Services property, and to limit any bonuses on offer to ONE account within the VMS family. The company reserves the right to close or disable a member’s account without notice in cases where the company, at its sole discretion, deems this appropriate. Members found opening or using multiple/other accounts in an attempt to manipulate sports wagering limits, to gain bonuses to which they are not entitled or masking their true identity will forfeit all winnings and be deactivated as a Company member.

One thing VIP needs to do is list the books in the VMS family directly in rule #23. How is a player going to know unless its listed or maybe he is a psychic?

jjs100 · 03-27-06, 05:44 PM

Agreed. If the T&C's would have said, you can only have one account at the following sites: VIPSports, BetOnGames, BetGameDay....it would be a lot easier.

My understanding at the time was the sites used the same software, but I didn't really expect them to be owned by the same company. I guess I don't really understand the purpose of VIP Management Services managing so many identical sites. Thanks again to Mudcat and SBR_John for the help.

I come from the online poker world, where I have been playing for years. It is very common for a network, for instance the PokerRoom Network, to have multiple "skins" on one network. From my understanding, each individual site runs off the network but is owned seperately and you can have accounts on multiple skins.

This is the thought process I had with the VIP Group - I was just signing up for a bunch of highly rated sites on SBR, liked their software and promotions, and now am stuck being charged for some obscure futures and horseracing freeplays I was awarded by their CS.

I still fully expect to resolve the situation, as this is a reputable book, I am just having trouble getting through to anyone of any importance or knowledge of the specific situation. The latest reply suggest I call back Thursday morning when the line manager, Joe, is back. I guess I will wait and see what happens.

Bill Dozer · 03-27-06, 09:59 PM

Hi JJ,

I sent an email out tonight and will follow up in the morning. I can tell you that in the past VIP has always taken responsibility for bonuses awarded in error when the player has been truthful and players have never complained of the book debiting earned bonuses or cash for free-play promos. We should have some info tomorrow morning.

jjs100 · 03-27-06, 11:45 PM

Thanks Bill. Your help is really appreciated.

slacker00 · 03-28-06, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by SBR_John

One thing VIP needs to do is list the books in the VMS family directly in rule #23. How is a player going to know unless its listed or maybe he is a psychic?

I agree 100%

Also, how hard would it be to cross check a database of real names? Not difficult at all. When a player tries to sign up with his name "John Doe", he should get a message and explanation that they already has an account with "sportsbook XYZ". Is this common sense or am I missing something?

I've done this in the past with poker accounts, where I was told that I already have an account on their network, which I had forgotten about or didn't realize it was on the network. It is just common courtesy, and they are the ones with the information. Otherwise it just looks like a shady setup, laying a trap so they can confiscate bonuses and whatnot down the line.

natrass · 03-28-06, 11:07 AM

Quite a pleasant thread actually!!

I agree with all that has been said. If the guy has done something wrong, its only by breaking a rule which VIP didnt detail.

Basically, anyone could have done that. I would be cross if I was being charged back for freeplays, etc.

And I absolutely HATE the way the book just 'helps itself' to a players money and then 'informs' him on the 'fact'.

That is never a way to do business. Does it really need a guy to have to go to the forums to get such an obvious error corrected.

Surely, another downgrading right there.

Bill Dozer · 03-28-06, 05:04 PM

jjs100,

All of the bonus funds have been reinstated to your account. It seems Joe deemed you to be sharp and noticed you requested two bonuses within a few days. Mgt. agrees that awarded bonuses should not be deducted after the player gives the book action and will be listing all the site names in rule #23.

Mudcat · 03-28-06, 05:31 PM

. . . and they lived happily ever after.

Nice resolution. Thumbs up all around.

slacker00 · 03-28-06, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

jjs100,

All of the bonus funds have been reinstated to your account. It seems Joe deemed you to be sharp and noticed you requested two bonuses within a few days. Mgt. agrees that awarded bonuses should not be deducted after the player gives the book action and will be listing all the site names in rule #23.

I'm glad the issue was resolved, but I've heard this explanation about books taking a hard line against "sharps" before. Does it say anything about being "sharp" in the T&C? Also, how exactly do they define a "sharp"? Is it someone who requests a bonus? If so, action should have taken place at that point by the book rather than down the line. Again, I'm unimpressed with this whole situation despite the eventual resolution, thanks to Mr. Dozer.

jjs100 · 03-28-06, 08:38 PM

Thanks so much Bill,

I must say I was very pleased to read this thread, and excitedly tried to login to my account to try and bet some NBA games tonight - thinking that they might even have raised my limits again. Unfortunately, I try to login to my account and get an "Account Disabled - call us at 1800-xxx-xxxx to reactivate your account". Frusterated, I do so - and am told to call back tomorrow morning as the concerned department is closed. I ask what department - he doesn't know. Ok...

I check my Neteller and see that my entire balance has been cashed out. It is kind of confusing because the amount I received includes my balance + $350 ($200 bonus, $150 in freeplays). However, I also had a pending bet on the UCLA/LSU game for later this week for $200. So I am assuming the bonus was credited back and the bet is still pending, but cannot be sure as I cannot login to my account.

Hopefully I will be able to clear this up tomorrow morning when I speak to whatever department I need to, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Slacker, I completely agree with you. What does it really mean to be sharp? I would venture to guess that I am one of the "least sharp" on this forum - I have never been a winning sportsbetter. As far as requesting two bonuses within a couple days - it was only after I had lost my previous deposit that I would redeposit. When I was in the hole $2,000 to these guys, they were more than happy to keep taking new deposits from me and issuing more bonuses. As I understood from the terms, "net losers" are able to receive reload bonuses as long as they are losers. Then, I get hot, win a few bets, and I'm sharp? lol I don't get it.

I am happy to see that they plan to clarify their T&Cs. It does seem strange that a sportsbook would consider someone sharp just for winning a few thousand dollars (and I think I am still in the red with these guys). It's just unfortunate that Mr. Dozer would have to get involved for me to get a straight answer from these guys. When they close my accounts - no email. When I call or email - call back tomorrow (or later this week...).

The worst thing about this is how they simply made the debit to my account, no email, no description, just "Discretionary Bonus". The only reason I noticed is that I had written down my balance previously (for my own sloppy, unorganized records) and things didn't match up. It is very possible that this could have slipped under the radar for myself or for another player, which is a real shame. Some kind of email or explanation really seems to be in order here.

Again, I just wanted to let those interested know that things have, for the most part, been resolved. My account is closed, (I still don't know why) but at least I can now take my $3000 elsewhere. Thanks again to Mr. Dozer and the other forum members who confirmed that I was not being unreasonable and had not done anything wrong. Hopefully this will avoid similar situations with this group in the future.

SBR_John · 03-28-06, 09:08 PM

Sure seems this was handled poorly. Yes your pending bet will be made good, probably refunded. The person who made the call on your account was out until Thursday and I think when Bill pressed them to take care of this now, as in today, the manger in charge made it right but played it safe too. We will also talk to the manager who made this call later in the week. At this point we would like to see if we can help suggest a procedure or rule chande/add to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

natrass · 03-28-06, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by jjs100

It's just unfortunate that Mr. Dozer would have to get involved for me to get a straight answer from these guys. When they close my accounts - no email. When I call or email - call back tomorrow (or later this week...).

The worst thing about this is how they simply made the debit to my account, no email, no description, just "Discretionary Bonus".

That is the REAL issue. It deserves explanation ... that wont happen ... and everything trundles along as if this never happened.

This could easily be me writing this ... and Lord knows, i am no sharp. But I do like bonuses ... that is why they have them, isnt it?

Why did Bill Dozer need to be involved at all ... thats a shameful reflection on the book I feel.

A very reasonable complaint but I do think its been swept under the carpet a bit here.

Surely it didnt take a forum for the book to realise its error?
Or am I being cynical?

jjs100 · 03-28-06, 09:20 PM

Exactly my feeling, Natrass. I started betting on the internet recently when I discovered bonuses and better odds than the bookie i had been betting with for years, but situations like this certainly make me wonder if its all worth it.

I imagine the manager responsible would have fixed things (he still won't be in until Thursday), but the email responses I was getting from CS really got me worried. I posted here to see if anyone had any similar experience or ideas to deal with this, and everyone has been extremely helpful. Definately a classy operation (SBR, I mean)

natrass · 03-28-06, 09:38 PM

Thats true ... SBR do seem the only 'third party' out there. They never seem to fall for any PR stuff. But I do think books shouldn't wait until it hits here before being reasonable and all nice and innocent.