Chess Betting At Pinnie: How to cap a chess game

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  • mathdotcom
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 03-24-08
    • 11689

    #1
    Chess Betting At Pinnie: How to cap a chess game
    Others in another thread have asked me how to cap a chess game. Here's how.

    Principle#1: Regardless of the players, the most likely result of any (top level) game is always going to be a draw. Look at http://www.ukrchess.org.ua/aerosvit2008/result_e.htm. After first round, only 2/6 games were decisive.

    Principle #2: White wins most games. The typical strategy at top level chess is to win your games with white and draw them with black. If you ever see a matchup where the better player is black (without being MUCH better), expect a draw. The guy playing white is usually happy to draw the better player, and the favorite is usually not willing to work too hard trying to win with black.

    Principle #3: Look for players that have a lot of "premature" draws. There are two ways to have a game end in a draw. The players can just 'agree' to it, as one offers a draw to his opponent at any point during the game. Alternatively, a draw can be "forced" if most, or all, of the pieces are traded off. A king can't checkmate another king. If you see two guys who tend to agree to draws, you can expect a draw.

    1] www.chesslive.de - at this site you can look up previous results between any two players w/ either color.

    2] Learn about the players. Some play a type of style such that 90% of their games are draws. Some are wild and have more decisive games.

    Match-ups:

    a) Shirov - Jakovenko
    Shirov has played this guy w/ white 5 times. 3 were draws and 2 were wins by Shirov. There is no way this guy is beating Shirov (a top 10 player). Line is currently -303 on Shirov. It's worth it.

    Betting the draw is a bit risky here. A draw is definitely the most likely result, but Shirov won his first round game so is probably looking to keep it going against this weaker player.

    b) van Wely - Eljanov
    Van Wely is a solid player. He lost his first round game so is probably looking to make up for it with white. If I had to bet, I'd suspect a draw (as usual), but I think anything could happen here. I'm staying away.

    c) Svidler - Carlsen
    All of the previous games between these two have been draws. Carlsen won his first game, so he probably won't mind drawing with black against the #2-3 player in the tournament. Svidler might not try anything too risky with white against this hot player. He is young and has been constantly improving. I like the draw here at -159 currently. If it's not a draw (which I'd find highly surprising), either could be the winner.

    d) Karjakin - Nisipeanu
    All of their previous 4 games [with Karjakin as white] have been *agreed* draws. The last 2 even before move 20 (early in the game). I expect, strongly, another draw here. They are very evenly matched even if they were to play for a win. If you want to make one bet on chess, this is it.

    Questions?

    Mathdotcom's Chess Plays for tomorrow morning (games start at 8am eastern):

    Carlsen/Svidler Draw
    Shirov to beat Jakovenko
    Karjakin/Nisipeanu Draw
  • SlickFazzer
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 05-22-08
    • 20209

    #2
    Very impressive.
    Comment
    • mathdotcom
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 03-24-08
      • 11689

      #3
      Thanks pal
      I hope to wake up tomorrow to the sound of $$$
      But you never know. I will be capping this whole 11-round tournament so stay tuned to follow or fade.
      Comment
      • RealSlimShady
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 12-24-07
        • 6249

        #4
        Mathy.....do you play chess? And if so, what's your rating?
        Comment
        • mathdotcom
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 03-24-08
          • 11689

          #5
          2190
          Comment
          • Tsoprano
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 04-14-08
            • 26374

            #6
            Bet on an asian or dorkey looking white kid. Although I guess thats everyone in the tournament.
            Comment
            • RealSlimShady
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 12-24-07
              • 6249

              #7
              Originally posted by mathdotcom
              2190
              I'd like to bet a dime on the under.
              Comment
              • mathdotcom
                SBR Posting Legend
                • 03-24-08
                • 11689

                #8
                What about you?

                Come on ICC and I'll prove it to you. If I was gonna lie I'da made myself at least 2200.
                Comment
                • RealSlimShady
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 12-24-07
                  • 6249

                  #9
                  Originally posted by mathdotcom
                  What about you?

                  Come on ICC and I'll prove it to you. If I was gonna lie I'da made myself at least 2200.


                  Nah...I suck. I don't play often....maybe 1600-1800 or so.
                  Comment
                  • slacker00
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 10-06-05
                    • 12262

                    #10
                    Originally posted by RealSlimShady
                    Nah...I suck. I don't play often....maybe 1600-1800 or so.
                    I'm around the same level. I can beat up the rookies, but get smashed by the masters.

                    You guys should check out the tactics server I've been playing at lately: http://chesstempo.com/users-list.html I'm ranked #5 on the standard ratings list right now. I'm sure that standing will fall once more players start playing there. Here's another place: http://chess.emrald.net/tProfile.php?TacID=19782 I don't really even play real games anymore, I spend all of my chess playing free time on tactics servers. I'm one of those guys that hates studying openings.

                    As for the Pinny bets, I'll try to follow these and see how it goes. Seems like solid analysis. I don't follow the pro players at all, because their games are so far above my head I don't even understand their moves. I'm somewhat amazed that betting lines are available for the pro chess tournaments.
                    Comment
                    • Justin7
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 07-31-06
                      • 8577

                      #11
                      nice analysis, Math.

                      What's your YTD record on chess matchups?
                      Comment
                      • fiveteamer
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 04-14-08
                        • 10805

                        #12
                        I'm not surprised they have chess lines. They also put up lines for Romanian womens basketball.
                        Comment
                        • mathdotcom
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 03-24-08
                          • 11689

                          #13
                          Svidler-Carlsen an agreed draw on move 22. Went as expected. No fireworks or either player trying for much.

                          Shirov-Jakovenko, still going, but it looks like Shirov is winning.

                          Karjakin-Nisipeanu, looks rather messy at this point. Definitely not what I expected. Seems one of the players woke up w/ fighting spirit today... but could still be a draw. I'm happy w/ events so far.
                          Comment
                          • mathdotcom
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 03-24-08
                            • 11689

                            #14
                            Shirov going to be up an exchange against Jakovenko. Jako might even resign soon.

                            Nisipeanu-Karjakin still unclear
                            Comment
                            • SBR Lou
                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                              • 08-02-07
                              • 37863

                              #15
                              And you make fun of my womens tennis betting.
                              Comment
                              • mathdotcom
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 03-24-08
                                • 11689

                                #16
                                I never made fun of your womens tennis betting. I made fun of your being a fan of women's tennis, and an active supporter of a female tennis player

                                If you can successfully bet bowel movements or whatever, go nuts!
                                Comment
                                • mathdotcom
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 03-24-08
                                  • 11689

                                  #17
                                  Went 2/3 today.

                                  Shirov won, Carlsen/Svidler drew, but Karjakin won. Was very surprised how he came out fighting and playing a sharp variation. Oh well.

                                  Will be back w/ more if/when Pinnie puts up more lines
                                  Comment
                                  • jgm1967
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 10-06-05
                                    • 429

                                    #18
                                    Fantastic write up except for the slight to womens tennis.womens tennis is great on the eyes,a gift from god it is.thanks for posting this write up.

                                    I love chess,do any books that cater to americans have lines?
                                    cheers

                                    I wish bobby fishers chess960 could be wagered upon.,this little clip from the bobby fisher wikipedia page gives alot of insight into chess today and all these draws.listen to the audio clip if you go the wikpedia page on the 166 footnote.Maybe he was crazy about some things but chess is a pretty dull game now with all the memorization of opening moves and all the draws

                                    wikipedia - "Fischer Random was designed to remove the importance of opening book memorization. Fischer complained in a 2006 phoned-in call with a television interviewer that talented celebrity players from long ago, if brought back from the dead to play today, would no longer be competitive, because of the progress in memorization of opening books. "Some kid of fourteen today, or even younger, could get an opening advantage against Capablanca," he said, merely because of opening-book memorization, which Fischer disdained. "Now chess is completely dead. It is all just memorization and prearrangement. It’s a terrible game now. Very uncreative."[165] Fischer described the unsavory side of chess in its current form at the highest levels.[166]"
                                    Comment
                                    • mathdotcom
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 03-24-08
                                      • 11689

                                      #19
                                      There's something that appeals to me about traditional chess. It's pretty dull at the top levels, I agree, but opening theory hasn't killed it at non-GM levels.

                                      Dunno if American books offer chess lines.

                                      Will be back as soon as Pinn opens more lines on Aerosvit. I hope they do!
                                      Comment
                                      • McBa1n
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 01-02-06
                                        • 2642

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by fiveteamer
                                        I'm not surprised they have chess lines. They also put up lines for Romanian womens basketball.
                                        It's only a matter of time before they start taking action on "Steal the Bacon" games at PS 109 2nd grade gym class.
                                        Comment
                                        • slacker00
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 10-06-05
                                          • 12262

                                          #21
                                          jgm1967,

                                          Good points about Fischer. I think the guy was a tortured soul, put into the impossible situation of iconic status during the peak of the Cold War. Even so, he handled things as well as anyone could, IMHO. Although he went bonkers towards the end of his life, his chess achievements cannot be negated.

                                          His claim that "Now chess is completely dead. It is all just memorization and prearrangement." was more true in his particular case than in general. When it was Fischer v.s. the USSR, they basically had the strongest chess "scientists" in human history working towards the singular task of beating Bobby Fischer. They were building an opening repetoire specifically designed to defeat Fischer. They were grooming young prodigies, such as Karpov to have the perfect style to defeat Fischer. I guess you could say that the Russian machine destroyed chess, at least for Bobby. In modern times, this "death of chess" is less significant than the factor of how computer analysis has changed (killed) chess.

                                          Like Bobby, I'm not a fan of openings, but probably more a matter of taste than pragmatics. Rather than embracing Fischer Random Chess, I've gotten addicted to competitive chess problem solving as I mentioned in the previous post above. I guess it's a way of embracing computer dominance of chess and admitting human weakness, than trying to become a computer intellectually, which is a human's best bet to become good at chess. I can't beat an even modest chess computer anymore, so the game is basically dead to me as it is. Solving chess problems gives me enough of a taste to tickle that nerve. Best of all, I can do a few problems in 30 seconds, and get on with my day, or I can spend 15 minutes on a single problem if that suits me. It beats the hell out of playing a game which may take a few minutes to a few hours. Chess problems are a much less open ended commitment.
                                          Comment
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