Tim Lincecum Is The Best Pitcher In Baseball!

[austintx05]

Wang is better than both.

[babaoriley]

Greg Maddux may not be in his absolute prime, but he's the best pitcher of this era (my opinion, so don't waste time refuting it). A true master of the craft.

[donjuan]

What is your opinion based on?

I know you hate objectivity but here is a list of pitchers with their career dERA:

Pedro Martinez 3.08
Greg Maddux 3.62
Roger Clemens 3.22

Which one doesn't belong?

[5 star bomb]

If this guys was on a team that would score more than 3 runs a game he could win 25 games.

His stuff is nasty!

ummmmmmmm

[babaoriley]

What is your opinion based on?

I know you hate objectivity but here is a list of pitchers with their career dERA:

Pedro Martinez 3.08
Greg Maddux 3.62
Roger Clemens 3.22

Which one doesn't belong?

Well, considering one of those three has been injury prone for several years, really only having a couple seasons of absolute peak and one has benefited significantly from performance enhancing drugs, I think I'll go with the guy that has the slightly worse dERA but I know in my head was the best pitcher of the three for a longer period. The other two were better throwers and arguably more dominant, but Maddux (again, IN MY OPINION) is the best of this era. As a former pitcher, I admire his perfection of the craft. Let's not get into semantics, here... I specifically stated "MY OPINION" to get you to shut up.

[Willie Bee]

Chaps my ass to agree with a Longhorn But I'm going to side with baba here and take Maddux over Pedro or Roger.

I am keen on seeing Lincecum mature, hoping he can stay injury free and really develop into one of his era's great arms. But each time I see him, I can't help but think of how much he looks like the actor Alan Ruck back in the Ferris Bueller days...

[donjuan]

Well, considering one of those three has been injury prone for several years, really only having a couple seasons of absolute peak and one has benefited significantly from performance enhancing drugs, I think I'll go with the guy that has the slightly worse dERA

Slightly worse dERA? The difference between Pedro and Maddux in dERA (.54) is greater than the difference between Maddux and Jason Schmidt. Maddux is certainly one of the best pitchers of his generation. But the best? No, and it's not close.

but I know in my head was the best pitcher of the three for a longer period. The other two were better throwers and arguably more dominant, but Maddux (again, IN MY OPINION) is the best of this era. As a former pitcher, I admire his perfection of the craft. Let's not get into semantics, here... I specifically stated "MY OPINION" to get you to shut up.

Saying it's your opinion and then not basing it on anything tangible is a cop out. I could say Russ Ortiz is the best pitcher of his generation and that it's only my opinion and that I know it in my head. However that doesn't count for anything and really contributes nothing.

[Willie Bee]

But isn't suggesting dERA is the one and only stat to make such a comparison in itself just an opinion?

As far as career numbers, I don't even think it's close between Maddux and Martinez. The former has certainly proven to be far more durable, 18 of his previous 22 seasons tossing 200+ innings compared to seven of 16 for the latter. Maddux has also posted a lower ERA in more than double the postseason innings than Martinez and a lower ERA than Clemens' postseason as well.

Pick and choose your statistical categories for supporting an argument, but in the end it really boils down to just an opinion or how one weights different columns in forming that opinion. But, that's just my opinion.

[donjuan]

Pick another stat then. WARP3 would be a good stat for evaluation, as well, and probably one that Maddux would look better under due to his durability. All I'm asking for is for someone to back up their opinion. Otherwise, what is the point of writing it?

[CashMoney]

If this guys was on a team that would score more than 3 runs a game he could win 25 games.

His stuff is nasty!

Yeah....and Jose Canseco is going to the HOF

[ego74]

Pitchers IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Tim Lincecum (W,3-0) 7.0 6 0 0 3 5 0 1.57

looked damn good today vs my Cards

[mofome]

i was looking for futures on lince to win the cy young before the season started, hes unreal.

[element1286]

Let's not get carried away with Lincecum. He is a very good young pitcher, with very good stuff. But I think the problem with him will always be his size. He is a small pitcher, and starting 33 games per year is though on anyone. He has a very violent delivery, and his lack of bulk could lead to arm problems down the road.

I believe when looking at stats for young pitchers you must look for one that proves an obvious flaw. He is good against left and right handers, he obviously has great stuff, he can strike out anyone, and he doesn't give up very many hits. He walks more than he should, but the walks should go down as he learns to how to pitch better. The only obvious flaw I can see with him is his size.

[pimike]

Pitchers IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Tim Lincecum (W,3-0) 7.0 6 0 0 3 5 0 1.57

looked damn good today vs my Cards

Please!

Lets talk about his losing record after the season is over.

[thegreatdiatchi]

I think Lince is proving that size doesn't matter here.

[MadCapper]

Season Totals
GM GS IP W L SV ERA WHP R ER H BB K BS HD QS CG SO
5 4 29.1 4 0 0 1.23 1.40 4 4 27 14 36 0 0 4 0 0

[MadCapper]

Tim Lincecum went 6 1/3 innings and struck out nine as the Giants recorded a 1-0 victory over the Padres on Thursday.
Lincecum opening the season 4-0 qualifies as one of the most amazing feats of 2008. The Giants have scored more than three runs in just one of his five starts, but they've won all five anyway. They're 5-13 when he doesn't pitch. Lincecum has a 1.23 ERA and a 36/14 K/BB ratio in 29 1/3 innings. Apr. 25 - 1:26 am et

[donjuan]

**,

Even more impressive should be his dERA of 1.30 and his K/9 of over 11! Another related stat that should show how dominant he is: .342 BABIP and he still has a 1.23 ERA. He's off to a good start...

[MadCapper]

Love to hear that, donjuan!

[donjuan]

He's actually been productive at the plate in his massive 10 plate appearances as well:

EqA: .262 (marginally above league average for ALL hitters)
OBP: .375

[NEP Dynasty]

Enough with the weird stats guy. The guy is a very good pitcher. We know.

[MadCapper]

Whats dERA again?

[freeVICK]

what about this kid edison volquez of the reds. this kid is only 25, but he absolutely owns. heres his stats in 4 games played... (3-0) 22.1 IP, 23 K, 1.21ERA, 1.25 WHIP

kid is gonna be a beast in a few years. reds are stacked for the future

[MadCapper]

what about this kid edison volquez of the reds. this kid is only 25, but he absolutely owns. heres his stats in 4 games played... (3-0) 22.1 IP, 23 K, 1.21ERA, 1.25 WHIP

kid is gonna be a beast in a few years. reds are stacked for the future

they gave up josh hamilton for volquez. not sure why texas gave up on there young pitching over the last 5 years with guys like C. Young, Volquez, etc

[donjuan]

Enough with the weird stats guy. The guy is a very good pitcher. We know.

Just to clarify, your argument here is basically "why quote stats good at describing someone's pitching ability when you can quote stats that aren't as good at describing someone's pitching ability?"

[NEP Dynasty]

False

[donjuan]

Mad Capper,

dERA is defense independent ERA that is normalized. Basically the 3 most important things for pitchers are how often they strike batters out, how often they give up HRs and how often they walk batters. It's a better stat than ERA because

1. It adjusts for park factors.

2. It takes relief pitchers who come in for starters with runners on base out of the equation. A starter with a better bullpen, all else being equal, will have a lower ERA than a starter with a poor bullpen.

3. It takes the defense behind a pitcher out of the equation. Obviously having Ozzie Smith in his prime at SS is going to be more beneficial to a pitcher's ERA than having Derek Jeter back there.

4. Batting average on balls in play (BABIP or BIPA, HRs and Ks do not count towards this stat) is pretty much random and varies greatly from year to year. A high BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting unlucky and a low BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting lucky. Thus BABIP should be thrown out which leaves us with defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS).

[donjuan]

False

Feel free to re-state in a more clear manner, then.

[donjuan]

what about this kid edison volquez of the reds. this kid is only 25, but he absolutely owns. heres his stats in 4 games played... (3-0) 22.1 IP, 23 K, 1.21ERA, 1.25 WHIP

kid is gonna be a beast in a few years. reds are stacked for the future

Are we talking about the same guy that has a 6.52 career dERA (5.89 ERA)?

[BuddyBear]

Lot of you guys get worked up over literally nothing.

[MadCapper]

Mad Capper,

dERA is defense independent ERA that is normalized. Basically the 3 most important things for pitchers are how often they strike batters out, how often they give up HRs and how often they walk batters. It's a better stat than ERA because

1. It adjusts for park factors.

2. It takes relief pitchers who come in for starters with runners on base out of the equation. A starter with a better bullpen, all else being equal, will have a lower ERA than a starter with a poor bullpen.

3. It takes the defense behind a pitcher out of the equation. Obviously having Ozzie Smith in his prime at SS is going to be more beneficial to a pitcher's ERA than having Derek Jeter back there.

4. Batting average on balls in play (BABIP or BIPA, HRs and Ks do not count towards this stat) is pretty much random and varies greatly from year to year. A high BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting unlucky and a low BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting lucky. Thus BABIP should be thrown out which leaves us with defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS).

Very very interesting.

Which active pitchers have the best dERA's?

[donjuan]

A sampling of career dERAs for starters:

Pedro: 3.08
Clemens: 3.22
Webb: 3.30
Oswalt: 3.34
Big Unit: 3.47
Hamels: 3.60
Maddux: 3.62
Peavy: 3.70
Beckett: 3.95


Lincecum: 3.49

Note: 4.50 is league average

[MadCapper]

Amazing stuff, don!

Lincecum is the real thing.

[MadCapper]

GM GS IP W L SV ERA WHP R ER H BB K BS HD QS CG SO
8 7 50.1 5 1 0 1.61 1.25 13 9 45 18 53 0 0 7 0 0


...hosting Sampson and the Astros today!

[mofome]

Mad Capper,

dERA is defense independent ERA that is normalized. Basically the 3 most important things for pitchers are how often they strike batters out, how often they give up HRs and how often they walk batters. It's a better stat than ERA because

1. It adjusts for park factors.

2. It takes relief pitchers who come in for starters with runners on base out of the equation. A starter with a better bullpen, all else being equal, will have a lower ERA than a starter with a poor bullpen.

3. It takes the defense behind a pitcher out of the equation. Obviously having Ozzie Smith in his prime at SS is going to be more beneficial to a pitcher's ERA than having Derek Jeter back there.

4. Batting average on balls in play (BABIP or BIPA, HRs and Ks do not count towards this stat) is pretty much random and varies greatly from year to year. A high BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting unlucky and a low BABIP indicates a pitcher is getting lucky. Thus BABIP should be thrown out which leaves us with defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS).

BABIP is not completely luck related. There is certainly an element of luck, but its not completely love oriented.