Your take on the legislation that might pass?

**pavyracer** · 12-07-10, 02:30 PM

I don't like the wording. Is fantasy football really a skill game?

**big0mar** · 12-07-10, 02:31 PM

**jjgold** · 12-07-10, 02:46 PM

Means ZERO

You want to play legally you play in England, Aussie, Ireland, Asia

Real fukkin simple

**Waz** · 12-07-10, 03:11 PM

I've been keeping tabs on this situation and the biggest question mark is how this directly relates to other forms of gambling (i.e. sports). Will the legislation specifically outlaw other forms and how will it be enforced if that's the case? And then how will they treat people that currently have offshore gambling accounts?

Lots of question marks, but my gut feeling is that not much will change in the near term.

**katstale** · 12-07-10, 03:57 PM

Once the banks don't have to monitor any and all strange transactions--the sports/casino people are very creative to make money moving look "normal". I believe this brings liquidity back, slowly but surely.

**phillybadboy** · 12-07-10, 05:45 PM

don't want legalization, we might have to pay taxes on wagers

**Nickelicious** · 12-07-10, 06:00 PM

All other types of iGambling (except for Horse Racing, state lottery sales, intrastate-only iGambling and skill games such as Fantasy sports)

Two things here: Does this mean you can bet on an intrastate game such as the Jets v. Giants or Cubs v. White Sox? The excerpted language would appear to allow that.

And if gambling on fantasy sports becomes legal with U.S. licensed gambling books, I expect a huge number of players to suddenly fall in love with fantasy sports. That is a winning proposition if you are a highly skilled risk evaluator (you only have to beat the majority of amateur players to make a profit). If that were to happen, it might open the doors to expand the legislation to gambling on all sports, because an extremely heavy interest in fantasy sports would be unhealthy for college and professional leagues. Imagine the corruption and game fixing that could happen if you don't need to fix games, but only need to fix one player's performance. That would not be that hard to get away with undetected. And that's bad news for sports commissioners.

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-07-10, 06:06 PM

been spending too much time reading up on this bill:

it appears we will know whats going to happen by the end of the week. it might not get attached to the tax bill, which ~~might~~ probably will be a good thing

**sharpcat** · 12-07-10, 06:17 PM

Congatulations!!

You all cried for it and now it may be here get ready to be forced to pay taxes on your annual earnings and watch a majority of the offshore sports books back out of the US much like Pinnacle did.

Thanks a lot to all of the idiots who pushed for and supported the passing of online gambling

Looks like I had better start looking into moving out of the US.

**Nickelicious** · 12-07-10, 06:19 PM

Sharpcat, there's way too much cash available in the USA for offshore books to go away. Pinny could afford to do it, and some others might join them, but there will always be high-grade books available here.

**sharpcat** · 12-07-10, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Nickelicious

Sharpcat, there's way too much cash available in the USA for offshore books to go away. Pinny could afford to do it, and some others might join them, but there will always be high-grade books available here.

If any books care to stick around and face harsh punishment is 1 issue more complications in funding offshore accounts is an even bigger concern of mine.

There is no way at all that this bill will benefit sports gamblers it will only harm us, unless the federal ban is lifted on sports wagering.

I am not a professional poker player I am a sports gambler this is very bad news for me.

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-07-10, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

If any books care to stick around and face harsh punishment is 1 issue more complications in funding offshore accounts is an even bigger concern of mine.

There is no way at all that this bill will benefit sports gamblers it will only harm us, unless the federal ban is lifted on sports wagering.

I am not a professional poker player I am a sports gambler this is very bad news for me.

Sportsbooks won't really face any more punishment than they have now, so they don't enter the US. But by what is written, I'm wondering if this will specifically make it illegal to wager sports online in US...not that I think they will crack down on a bettor, but it has been a gray area before this.

It looks 50/50 to me as to whether this gets attached to the tax bill (like UIGEA did to the safe port act)

**shari91** · 12-07-10, 06:43 PM

From reading all of this, I would suggest those of you in the States start thinking creatively as to how to circumvent this because if it becomes illegal to bet on sports, and not merely the financial transactions associated with it, I'm with Sharpie on this one - y'all will be screwed when the books start closing their doors to you.

**stevek173** · 12-07-10, 06:51 PM

Messed up. TY for the post though.

Land of the free - my ass.

**big0mar** · 12-07-10, 07:01 PM

Yeah, sounds like it will be illegal to place wagers.

**pavyracer** · 12-07-10, 07:43 PM

That's what the relatives overseas are for. I have a few accounts with them opened for the day Uncle Sam thinks I can't gamble anymore.

**iamnomad** · 12-07-10, 07:44 PM

i'm new to this site, but not new to the issue. have only read the description posted at top of this thread and honestly, unless i'm missing something, it does not sound that much different, as it applies to sports gambling, from the unlawful internet gambling act that became law about 5 years ago. also remember that passage of law is just beginning. Justice Dept. and other agencies will have to write the regulations to actually implement it and that will take time. in the case of the unlawful internet gambling act, it took the better part of two years...and guess what? we are all still betting away...

**sharpcat** · 12-07-10, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by iamnomad

i'm new to this site, but not new to the issue. have only read the description posted at top of this thread and honestly, unless i'm missing something, it does not sound that much different from the unlawful internet gambling act that became law about 5 years ago. also remember that passage of law is just beginning. Justice Dept. and other agencies will have to write the regulations to actually implement it and that will take time. in the case of the unlawful internet gambling act, it took the better part of two years...and guess what? we are all still betting away...

Yes but this will allow the government an opportunity to rewrite the law to accomplish what they failed at doing when they passed the UIGEA.

Not good news!! anybody who was around at that time remembers how difficult things became for a brief period and luckily it did not take much time for books to find ways around the law.

**Ian** · 12-07-10, 08:06 PM

Lots of uninformed opinion in this thread so far...

If this passes it changes absolutely nothing for sportsbetting unless the book A) has a poker room, B) wants to be part of the regulated American poker market after the blackout period, and C) wants to give up on taking bets. I suspect the number of books that fit all three criteria is approximately 0. Offshore bookmaking is already illegal under the wire act, so the legal implications for betting sports offshore will be the same as they are now.

If the bill becomes law the two groups of people who will be negatively effected are 1) the poker sites who currently allow American customers to play and wish to take part in regulated American poker after the blackout period, and 2) prospective American online poker players who refuse to play on an unregulated site and live in a state that refuses to opt-in to the regulated sites once they are established. Current online players will be fine as they'll just play on the sites that don't want to be regulated.

**Ian** · 12-07-10, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by phillybadboy

don't want legalization, we might have to pay taxes on wagers

You already are supposed to pay taxes on gambling winnings. All income is taxed, even if it comes from illegal means... that's how the feds put Al Capone behind bars.

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-07-10, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Ian

Lots of uninformed opinion in this thread so far...

If this passes it changes absolutely nothing for sportsbetting unless the book A) has a poker room, B) wants to be part of the regulated American poker market after the blackout period, and C) wants to give up on taking bets. I suspect the number of books that fit all three criteria is approximately 0. Offshore bookmaking is already illegal under the wire act, so the legal implications for betting sports offshore will be the same as they are now.

If the bill becomes law the two groups of people who will be negatively effected are 1) the poker sites who currently allow American customers to play and wish to take part in regulated American poker after the blackout period, and 2) prospective American online poker players who refuse to play on an unregulated site and live in a state that refuses to opt-in to the regulated sites once they are established. Current online players will be fine as they'll just play on the sites that don't want to be regulated.

Yes I agree, sportsbetting sites won't be effected,because theyre already wanted. And sportsbook with a pokersite(i.e. bodog) know they don't have a chance in hell to be regulated.

My main question about all this is:

Originally posted by RudyRuetigger

All other types of iGambling (except for Horse Racing, state lottery sales, intrastate-only iGambling and skill games such as Fantasy sports) will become clearly illegal in the US, subject to criminal prosecution.

**gafl** · 12-07-10, 08:45 PM

As it says in the first post "Play on unlicensed sites will not be illegal for players". This should affect the offshore poker sites the most as their US players will be siphoned off by the newly legal sites. Don't see sports betting being legalized any time soon. Doesn't seem to change the offshore industry that much. Seems to give the offshore books an out, as bank transactions will be banned only from sites on the list. They just have to stay a couple steps ahead of the list.

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-07-10, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by gafl

As it says in the first post "Play on unlicensed sites will not be illegal for players".

play on unlicensed [poker] sites will not be illegal for players.

it appears to me they are saying (in the next sentence) other forms of online unlicensed gambling (i.e. sportsbetting) will be illegal.

oh well, its all speculation until something does/doesn't happen this week.. and i highly doubt the govt tries to go after a bettor anyway.

**jgray** · 12-07-10, 09:16 PM

Can we look at this sort of like the BCS? Any sort of movement toward a playoff (+1 for example) is a good thing. If they legalize some aspects of internet gambling it would seem that it becomes easier legalize other parts. I might be naive, but this is just a money-grab. Why would they leave other potential tax sources on the table?

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-07-10, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by jgray

Can we look at this sort of like the BCS? Any sort of movement toward a playoff (+1 for example) is a good thing. If they legalize some aspects of internet gambling it would seem that it becomes easier legalize other parts. I might be naive, but this is just a money-grab. Why would they leave other potential tax sources on the table?

More than likely most states won't even opt in for poker if this is passed.

**gafl** · 12-07-10, 10:37 PM

Looks like the way it is now. The Feds will not go after the player, but if given the chance will prosecute the books and the people connected to them to the fullest. Rudy, this is how I read it the first time. After reading it several more times, it is hard to tell if they are talking about the player or book. I'm sure that this will be batted around for awhile until we finally find out what the final outcome will be. The US should realize by now that prohibition doesn't work. If gambling is so bad, why legalize some aspects of it or allow it to be run legally in some parts of the country and not others.

**hunterwrot** · 12-08-10, 11:26 AM

Way too much wording for me to read.

**Nookx** · 12-08-10, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by gafl

Looks like the way it is now. The Feds will not go after the player, but if given the chance will prosecute the books and the people connected to them to the fullest. Rudy, this is how I read it the first time. After reading it several more times, it is hard to tell if they are talking about the player or book. I'm sure that this will be batted around for awhile until we finally find out what the final outcome will be. The US should realize by now that prohibition doesn't work. If gambling is so bad, why legalize some aspects of it or allow it to be run legally in some parts of the country and not others.

All state that allow current instraste igambling in the form of poker will be not be able to opt out.

**Nookx** · 12-08-10, 03:37 PM

Edit

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-08-10, 06:48 PM

word is coming out this bill will not be attached...how legit is that word? fukk if i know

**Waz** · 12-08-10, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by RudyRuetigger

word is coming out this bill will not be attached...how legit is that word? fukk if i know

Rudy, do you have a link?

**fsugolf** · 12-08-10, 07:13 PM

multiple sources said it got removed....http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...agenda-934729/

**jgray** · 12-08-10, 07:28 PM

Assuming the bill is not enacted (which seems to be the case) we are left with the status quo. While that's inconvenient, it's not that bad. Onward we march.

**RudyRuetigger** · 12-08-10, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Waz

Rudy, do you have a link?

2p2 is where i heard as well