Sharpest Book Lines...Matchy or Pinny?

[the sink]

Pinnacle was taking $250,000 a side on the world cup and you think they are just copying somebody's line? In most small markets Pinnacle is the only place offering a line. Who are you comparing Pinnacle too...please let me know who Pinnacle is copying their lines from and which sport it is?

u dont know much u...
pinnacle does not put the lines up first for soccer, they follow the Asian books, sbobet,12bet,ibc and 188bet, and everytime the asians move the line pinnacle has to take the game offline to se how the asians move it and then put it back up

[dice]

Pinnacle offers "market value lines." Matchbook offers an alternative to "market value lines" for hedging purposes or to seek out better odds. Pinnacle almost always equates to a transaction, Matchbook does not. The sharper odds should be with the contrarian gambler who does not accept the "market value line," but makes an offer on Matchbook.

[Shonner]

I know that some of the math guys are going to hate this, but I don't really believe that a sports betting market is efficient, and the stock market is def. not efficient. I think the EMH hypothesis is a complete bunch of bullshit.

My proof is this: the financial crisis. EVERYONE kept thinking the market was efficient, it wasn't. Proof is in the pudding my friends.

Look up Jeremy Grantham he will tell you all about it.

As a matter of fact, many popular economists and financial leaders are backing away from the EHM

[Max009]

Pinnacle offers "market value lines." Matchbook offers an alternative to "market value lines" for hedging purposes or to seek out better odds. Pinnacle almost always equates to a transaction, Matchbook does not. The sharper odds should be with the contrarian gambler who does not accept the "market value line," but makes an offer on Matchbook.

To say some offer for 1k on Matchbook is dictating to Pinnacle which is taking millions of dollars most likely on the same event and has been for days prior is just silly. You people are obviously confusing cause and effect. You guys are under the impression that the tail is wagging the dog.

With this logic your using how is it Pinnacle is able to survive the rest of the time when MB doesn't have any lines up since they only have liquidity on major sports about 4 hours before the game starts and that is on major sports, forget NCAA or anything else.

I understand the love for MB but to make it seem like Pinnacle is just a bunch of line copying boneheads which is what we are getting in this thread is just laughable.

By the way if you want to bet the over at MB for tomorrow's NFL you can only bet $534 because that is the entire liquidity. But your right that is the sharpest $534 offer in the world. I think I will put an offer up on the Parlaymakers exchange right now that is one cent better than that so I will be the sharpest player in the world....are you listening Pinnacle...you had better change the line.

[JustinBieber]

I know that some of the math guys are going to hate this, but I don't really believe that a sports betting market is efficient, and the stock market is def. not efficient. I think the EMH hypothesis is a complete bunch of bullshit.

My proof is this: the financial crisis. EVERYONE kept thinking the market was efficient, it wasn't. Proof is in the pudding my friends.

Look up Jeremy Grantham he will tell you all about it.

As a matter of fact, many popular economists and financial leaders are backing away from the EHM

Lolol, please get a clue before talking about things you dont understand.

[Dark Horse]

MB lines change when somebody enters a hundred dollar offer. Thank goodness Pinny lines are not that sensitive. If the MB line has several thousands on each side, and on each progressive point (e.g. -107 versus +106, -108 versus +105, and -109 versus +104) then MB is sharper. But all those little offers at MB are meaningless static. So Pinnacle for all practical purposes, until there is high-paced bidding for substantial amounts at MB. Then the 1 cent MB line, like a pencil-sharpener, will bring greater focus (to the Pinny line).

[Mudcat]

I don't understand how Matchbook can be considered sharp. At least for NFL/MLB/NBA, it usually has the best line available on both sides of every full game bet. I end up placing ~80% of my bets there because they have a better line and are more beatable than all the square books out there.

Maybe people define sharp differently but when an out is the easiest to beat, I don't call it sharp.

[Dark Horse]

nm.

[sportsbetwin]

Anybody grab part of that NC St +7.5 +115 $20,000 offer during in-game betting?

Who do you think was making that offer?

[DaddyWarBuck$]

i can't beleive you guys are still arguing this.. it's so funny.

how about you see for yourselves.. next time you see a great line at matchy that is 8 cents better than pinny, bet it.. then watch roughly 6 min later, pinny will follow matchy and it will no longer be a good bet. This happens very frequently.

will that prove to you who is sharper, or do you still want to say pinny is sharper??

no need to argue any longer..

Pinny

[Nicky Santoro]

wow, you guys are still arguing this.. man, you boys don't give up..duh

[Monte]

Nicky...it is most certainly Pinny themselves who put up those large amounts at MB.
There are several reasons for this, first they know they will move the line soon, and want to tempt lurkers into taking a line at MB that looks very good compared to the Pinny line. Or the other way round, take the line at their own book coz it looks very good now.
To balance action, or maybe they just want to have fun? lol who knows.

So how sharp is the MB line in that case? The truth is noone knows, because you don't know why Pinny moves...how would you know which line is sharper, the one Pinny had before or after the move?

So of course Pinny is "sharper", MB is a muppet of them

[Winner_13]

yes I read somewhere on this forum I think, Pinny has an MB account ( henry probably)

[roasthawg]

I tracked this one for a month or so awhile back and it was clearly Matchbook at the time.

[wrongturn]

Generally Pinny is sharper. But when you see Matchy having big offers (or matched offers) with a price like Nicky said, you got to pay attention, because a syndicate can start taking as much as they can on Matchy without causing big line movement. If they start at Pinny, it will be different.

[ABEHONEST]

in large markets I think Pinnacle is the most sharp book in the world(they have to be)

I would have to question that statement?

What I have seen of Pinnacle, they change their lines a penny here and a penny there so frequent, I feel like I am on a merry-go-round trying to grasp a "solid" number!

[KGambler]

Nicky...it is most certainly Pinny themselves who put up those large amounts at MB.
There are several reasons for this, first they know they will move the line soon, and want to tempt lurkers into taking a line at MB that looks very good compared to the Pinny line. Or the other way round, take the line at their own book coz it looks very good now.
To balance action, or maybe they just want to have fun? lol who knows.

So how sharp is the MB line in that case? The truth is noone knows, because you don't know why Pinny moves...how would you know which line is sharper, the one Pinny had before or after the move?

So of course Pinny is "sharper", MB is a muppet of them

If this is true, then the MB lines are sharper. After all, the MB lines are up to date, while Pinnacle's lines would be behind. In other words, you say that Pinnacle already knows they are going to move the line, but put up large offers on MB first; therefore, the large offers on MB are sharper.

What Nicky is saying is definitely true for MLB. Large offers for MLB will appear and later Pinnacle's line will move in that direction. Today's example is AZ/SF. Pinnacle had the game as +189 / -202. Meanwhile, large offers were available on MB for +200, +199, +198. About a half hour later, the line at Pinnacle was +194 / -207. Large offers on MB almost always anticipate a line move on Pinnacle. Even if this is for the reason you state (Pinnacle is the one making the offer), it still means that the large offers on MB are sharper than the current Pinnacle lines.

[Monte]

Even if this is for the reason you state (Pinnacle is the one making the offer), it still means that the large offers on MB are sharper than the current Pinnacle lines.

Nah, they don't always aim for the "sharpest" line, just like every other book they want to balance their action on games where they do not have a strong opinion. It's not like Pinny are Gods...

[Nicky Santoro]

What Nicky is saying is definitely true for MLB. Large offers for MLB will appear and later Pinnacle's line will move in that direction. Today's example is AZ/SF. Pinnacle had the game as +189 / -202. Meanwhile, large offers were available on MB for +200, +199, +198. About a half hour later, the line at Pinnacle was +194 / -207. Large offers on MB almost always anticipate a line move on Pinnacle. Even if this is for the reason you state (Pinnacle is the one making the offer), it still means that the large offers on MB are sharper than the current Pinnacle lines.

that's exactly what i'm saying.. yesterday night was best example.. 10 min before post, if you put up offer of OAK +125, it would get matched and you would be happy cause pinny had a crappy line on OAK.. 5 min later, OAK was +133 at matchy

if you put up Cubs +154, it'd get matched. you were happy as hell cause pinny was crap.. 3 min later, CUBS are +162 at matchy..

This happens in almost every game. if you put up an offer and it gets matched, line will go way up and you'll be depressed later.

If your offer never gets matched, it's because line went your way. it's a lose lose situation. matchy is very dangerous. they are that sharp. if you keep putting up offers like this, you will get eaten alive and more often than not, end up with a crappy #.

no one touches matchy when it comes to sharpness... no one...

[JohnnyC]

Nicky I thought you played at Matchy?

[Nicky Santoro]

Nicky I thought you played at Matchy?

i do and always will. but if you constantly make offers, you will get hammered..

but if you play your cards right, you will still end up with the best # offshore, but you must be very cautious and play smart.


they are also great for scalping..

[rfr3sh]

nvm

[Peeig]

rabid anti-dentite itt

[lakerboy]

I would say matchy myself overall. Pinny for certain events.

[ABEHONEST]

I don't understand how Matchbook can be considered sharp. At least for NFL/MLB/NBA, it usually has the best line available on both sides of every full game bet. I end up placing ~80% of my bets there because they have a better line and are more beatable than all the square books out there.

Maybe people define sharp differently but when an out is the easiest to beat, I don't call it sharp.

I don't know how you got the name MUDCAT because you see better than most gamblers?
I agree with you, but what I've seen of Pinnacle[ or Penny] , they are very irritating with those penny changes every 30 seconds. I think they stink for a Book.

[jjgold]

Pinnacle takes more volume on MLB in one night than match does all week

Discussion over

[testudo]

The best thing to do in the US is to beat a slow moving book to a number that Pinny is already at/

[gags]

For me Matchbook. I am up all time at Pinny, and I think I've lost more at Matchbook then any other book.

That's because Matchbook's liquidity is proprietary