For the Amusement of All but Me

isetcap · 01-16-06, 12:59 PM

The last time I contacted them prior to this was around Christmas...I told them that they had ruined the holidays for me and my family and that I was crying. The poor CS guy felt terrible.

juuso · 01-16-06, 01:44 PM

What a bull shit from them! Really crooked behaviour. Some of these playtech outfits are really not very trustable, same low class rogue tactics like some of the worst RTG ones. I found a interesting thread at casinomeister message board about these guys: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...african+palace

Good luck getting your money. I don't know if you have thought about making a complaint about them at casinomeisters site. He is resolving player issues on casinos pretty much like Bill Dozer does with sportsbooks. He may be able to help, or maybe not. But probably wouldn't hurt to try...

I also play at casinos and stuff like this really makes me angry. Good luck retrieving your funds!

natrass · 01-16-06, 01:47 PM

I think you're being too nice with the CS guy. He must know he goes to work every day to work to help stiff people. That makes him a de facto con artist as well. He then is part of the scam.

To say he is just doing his job is what the Nazis used to say.

As for African palace, everyone knows they are a rip off now but good luck.

isetcap · 01-16-06, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by natrass

I think you're being too nice with the CS guy. He must know he goes to work every day to work to help stiff people. That makes him a de facto con artist as well. He then is part of the scam.

To say he is just doing his job is what the Nazis used to say.

As for African palace, everyone knows they are a rip off now but good luck.

I'm just being nice with him to have some fun with the situation. I like to take a different approach each time I contact them.

To compare his job to that of what Nazis used to do is to undermine and dilute the atrocities against humanity they performed. I prefer to limit the extent of my hatred for rogue operations to strictly the principles.

natrass · 01-16-06, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by isetcap

To compare his job to that of what Nazis used to do is to undermine and dilute the atrocities against humanity they performed.

No, I wasn't comparing the deeds but the rationale. For someone to say 'I am just doing my job and don't make the decisions' is no excuse if you know the work you are doing is unjustifiable. Thus, the comparison for an employee lying and helping a scam book steal and the 'workforce' of a fascist regime are correct in that sense. Maybe worse, in that this guy is just doing it for cash (your cash) whereas at least politicos believe what they are doing is for some sort of good (even if we know different).

I did assume you knew I wasn't accusing him of being an accomplice to genocide. Maybe I was wrong. Or maybe you like arguing moot points. Either way, it looks like your not going to get your money my friend.

isetcap · 01-16-06, 02:44 PM

You're right about the analogy but wrong about my money.

natrass · 01-16-06, 02:57 PM

I hope so actually. Make them sweat.

tacomax · 01-16-06, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by isetcap

Erik: Have they been closed for 4 months?

HAPPY BOY · 01-16-06, 05:20 PM

When I read crap like this it brings back my trama with ESB. They would tell me " our accounts are back logged, you will get paid." Fvck!!! If your gonna pay then pay don't string people along. I feel your pain Isetap. I hope you get every cent due to you, but this is smelling pretty bad. God bless all the decent books out there. Nothing worse than beating the odds and then getting stiffed by a bunch of assholes.

DamianDunlap · 01-16-06, 08:23 PM

There no reason, why you have not gotten paid.

SBR_John · 01-16-06, 08:29 PM

Mr D., if you have any inside with these guys and can help please say so and post an address where this guy can write to. I have no idea who these guys are.

halix · 01-16-06, 08:42 PM

I would suggest to do the following things:

1) "Pitch a bitch" at the Casinomeister's website
CM is by far the most powerful casino watchdog - and with his PAB section he offers some kind of mediation and is able to put pressure on the casinos.

Just a moment...

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.html

2) Read through the African Palace thread there - probably useful info there:

Just a moment...

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casino-poker-complaints/9040-african-palace-casino-stole-my-money.html

3) Using the Playtech Dispute Service, although it is more or less useless (in contrary to the 'dispute channels' of two other software providers, RTG and Microgaming)

Playtech

http://www.playtech.com/

Playtech is a leading technology company to the gambling industry providing over 25 years of unparalleled expertise across the globe.

--> Contact us --> Player inquiries

pags11 · 01-17-06, 04:37 AM

isetcap...this totally stinks...I'm sorry that you have had to go through this...

slacker00 · 01-17-06, 06:58 AM

Where do you guys find these oddball books? SBR doesn't have a rating for African Palace, unless it's listed under a different name. Noobs: Play at SBR B+ or higher books.

imgv94 · 01-17-06, 07:18 AM

I wouldn't play poker at an african palace..

Santo · 01-17-06, 08:02 AM

It's a Casino, not a sportsbook.

nikosgr · 01-17-06, 08:37 AM

Isetcap i m really sorry for your lost money, but how could you trust your funds to that African Palace Casino?I mean...the name of that casino itself is suspicious.Not rated, no nothing.

natrass · 01-17-06, 09:55 AM

African palace is quite apt as that is probably just where everyones cash is right now.

Its so easy to start an online casino now. If anyone fancies it ... I can supply the brains if you can supply the cash. The no's below.

marc · 01-17-06, 12:50 PM

GIve danny a ring later today, and find out how his "conversation" with the acocunts manager went.

isetcap · 01-17-06, 11:54 PM

I can't believe I haven't received a message from their accounts department yet!

isetcap · 01-18-06, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by nikosgr

Isetcap i m really sorry for your lost money, but how could you trust your funds to that African Palace Casino?I mean...the name of that casino itself is suspicious.Not rated, no nothing.

It's an operation that uses Playtech software and typically anything Playtech is legit. I have been paid by them on 3 previous occasions. I put in a limited amount of my own money and went on a great run.

I've dealt with 24 different groups of Playtech casinos. There are 2 groups with which I have had problems and this is the first one that hasn't paid me within 3 months. The other group I had trouble with consists of Black Widow/Grand Banks/Sterling House. They are notorious slowpayers. African Palace and Indio make up the other bad group.

bigboydan · 01-18-06, 12:13 AM

LOL@isetcap

call them up again in the morning again, and see what excuse they use then.

i just hate to see people in these types of situations.

slacker00 · 01-18-06, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by bigboydan

LOL@isetcap

call them up again in the morning again, and see what excuse they use then.

i just hate to see people in these types of situations.

BBD, I agree.

isetcap, I'd just plan on calling them every day, then post on here about it. Maybe they'll get sick of you calling them all the time. Take down names and notes on the phone calls. Keep asking for a higher manager. If you make yourself enough of a pest, maybe they'll give up and pay you. I'm not sure what other recourse there is. Just try to be tactful, yet urgent and insistent without being insulting.

tacomax · 01-18-06, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by isetcap

African Palace and Indio make up the other bad group.

If my memory serves me correctly, these were previously Futurebet sites which left the group and left behind a large number of unpaid players. SportsbookUSA eventually took over the accounts, gave them a 10% bonus and imposed a 10x rollover. That didn't go down too well in the gaming community.

halix · 01-18-06, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by isetcap

It's an operation that uses Playtech software and typically anything Playtech is legit.
...
I've dealt with 24 different groups of Playtech casinos.

If you compare Playtech casinos with no-name brands - Playtech may be legit.

But from all the major casino software providers (Microgaming, RTG, BossMedia, Cryptologic, + Playtech) I would call Playtech by far the worst:

- some notorius and known slow-/no-payers (Grand Banks group, African Palace group)
- player bans left and right (+ account blocking)
- hundreds of complaints (mostly about bonus rules and bonus cashins; refused and stolen bonuses)
AND:
- Playtech refuses to take any kind of responsibility for their licensees (unlike RTG, **, Crypto) and their dispute channel is a joke

slacker00 · 01-18-06, 07:39 AM

But from all the major casino software providers (Microgaming, RTG, BossMedia, Cryptologic, + Playtech) I would call Playtech by far the worst:

Gawd, that is one sorry list to be on the bottom of.

isetcap · 01-18-06, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by halix

If you compare Playtech casinos with no-name brands - Playtech may be legit.

But from all the major casino software providers (Microgaming, RTG, BossMedia, Cryptologic, + Playtech) I would call Playtech by far the worst:

- some notorius and known slow-/no-payers (Grand Banks group, African Palace group)
- player bans left and right (+ account blocking)
- hundreds of complaints (mostly about bonus rules and bonus cashins; refused and stolen bonuses)
AND:
- Playtech refuses to take any kind of responsibility for their licensees (unlike RTG, **, Crypto) and their dispute channel is a joke

In terms of legitimacy RTG does not belong in that list at all! RTG has become the most rogue of all the major software providers and it's a shame because their gameplay is spectacular. You are correct that Microgaming, Boss and Cryptologic never have problems. The problem is that of those providers, only Microgaming offers many casino choices. In terms of bonuses, Playtech far excels them all.

HAPPY BOY · 01-19-06, 05:14 PM

whats wrong with say Golden palace. Ive heard nothing but good things about them?

isetcap · 01-19-06, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by HAPPY BOY

whats wrong with say Golden palace. Ive heard nothing but good things about them?

Nothing is wrong with Golden Palace if you are a legit player. They'll lock your account in a second if you're not though.

isetcap · 01-19-06, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by slacker00

Gawd, that is one sorry list to be on the bottom of.

You think so? I think all those groups are quite reputable. In fact I have extensive firsthand experience that bears that out for me. If you have money in a Microgaming licensee, you will be paid. Same with Boss and Cryptologic. Those guys are absolute. The gray area begins with Playtech and RTG is like the wild wild west.

slacker00 · 01-20-06, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by isetcap

You think so? I think all those groups are quite reputable. In fact I have extensive firsthand experience that bears that out for me. If you have money in a Microgaming licensee, you will be paid. Same with Boss and Cryptologic. Those guys are absolute. The gray area begins with Playtech and RTG is like the wild wild west.

Well, I'm speaking from the perspective of a poker player. I've passed thousands of dollars through the Crytpo, Microgaming, and the BOSS networks. I've always gotten paid. But, I had to jump through some hoops a few times, contacting customer service, waiting, contacting them again, waiting, etc. I finally got fed up with the shit and just quit playing. It's a real headache. Plus, the poker games are kinda drying up at all of these places.

isetcap · 03-09-06, 04:15 PM

Time for an update...

I took my concern to the fabled Casinomeister and here is what I filed:

Who have you contacted at the casino about this problem? online support, phone support
Problem in detail: Approximately 4 months ago maybe longer, I played with African Palace and put together a decent win for which I requested a withdrawal. After a month, I hadnt received my funds so I contacted them via their chat service. They told me they would investigate and contact me about the problem. I received no email. In fact, in the subsequent 4 chat sessions with them since then, they have always told me the exact same thing yet I have never received any emails other than those of a promotional nature so they have my correct email address. I have one particularly exciting session documented if that is of interest to you. Today I contacted them by phone and was told the system was down but that they would investigate and contact me later. I think I know what the outcome of that will be.
What do you want me to do about this?: I am aware of the difficulties that the African Palace/Indio group is experiencing. My withdrawal is for approximately 2500 and I would be willing to allow them to put me on a payment schedule. If you could make that arrangement for me, I would be quite appreciative. If they are ultimately unable to pay me then I would push to have them back on the Rogue list. There is no justification for this situation to take place and players should be advised they are a deposit only operation.Thank you in advance.

To have an opportunity just to log this complaint, I had to sign up for Casinomeister's crap newsletter and his junk forum. After 3 additional emails and no responses from Bryan Bailey (The Casinomeister) for over 3 weeks, he finally responded by saying:

Hi Erik,
This is one casino group I don't deal with at all. They wouldn't give me the time of day much less answer any of my emails. Please contact Playtech on this one. Sorry.
Sincerely,
Bryan

Fairly unimpressive results by the Casinomeister. I contacted CS at African Palace again today, and surprisingly they said the accounts department wouldn't be in for another 15 hours. Dammit, I just missed them!

My next move is to follow up with Playtech but I wonder if anyone would like to take up my plight or offer advice on another source that can apply pressure.