how many beleive in the devil

[muldoon]

Spirituality and religion fill in the blanks (and oftentimes provide an insurance policy for those who lead empty/shitty lives).

I'd personally prefer that people who believe we're in "end times" not have any vote or say on things like military or environmental policy however.

[rook]

MIkail funny))

[Goat Milk]

"divine truth" is a concept as well. Who is to say that a person can not achieve inner peace from the accumulation of facts? It's how a person internalizes these facts and the importance they place of them that decides the meaning.

Let's say you have a social issue you want to discuss with someone. It is an issue about an individual you were close to and trusted, and then he betrayed you.

Who would you consult to find an answer to this hypothetic problem?
A) A Scientist
B) A Philosopher

[tunaguitar76]

hard to say.. "social issue" is kind of vague. More than likely neither, based on those qualifications. Unless I had a previous relationship with these people and felt they could provide insight from having a similar experience of their own. In that case it would be more a choice of my views of that person and not their profession. I would prefer to stick to looking for a resolution with the other person involved. The insight I would be seeking is more likely to come from the person who betrayed me and my relationship with them than a person who was not involved.

[thebayareabeast]

Should have created a poll with this fw

[WileOut]

God is real. If you have any kind of rational mind at all, you would realize that humans, water, trees, oxygen produced by plants, chemical bonds, mitochondria, its all impossible without an original energy starting the process.

Things don't get moving unless somebody starts the movement.

Where did the first cell come from? Where did the first atom come from? Where did the first THING come from? There is no other explanation but God.

[WileOut]

Spirituality and religion fill in the blanks (and oftentimes provide an insurance policy for those who lead empty/shitty lives).

Then explain why 77% (and rising) of all Americans are Christian. And I'd say that probably half of these people are very happy and/or make very good money and live lives most would envy. In my immediate family alone, I have 2 doctors, a pharmacist, pharmacy owner, nuclear plant manager with very high clearance, aeronautical engineer who develops future fighter jets for the government. They are all Christians and they all have IQs in genius range. They all live lives I would do anything to live. And that is just my family.

I'd personally prefer that people who believe we're in "end times" not have any vote or say on things like military or environmental policy however.

How could anyone believe we are in the end times? One of the first things God does in the end times is to take all Christians into heaven with him. that has not happened yet. So who would think we are in the end times? No Christians I know believe this.

[tunaguitar76]

God is real

maybe, maybe not. you have the same amount of proof as a person that says there is no god.

most of what makes up the known universe is yet unexplained... it could be anything.. the answer could be there.. it could be god.. it could be something else.. who knows.

like john lennon said... "whatever gets you through the night, it's alright"

[chilidog]

Where did the first cell come from? Where did the first atom come from? Where did the first THING come from? There is no other explanation but God.

Your reasoning makes no sense. You are basically saying that matter did not just exist, that God created it. Well, if matter did not just exist, and something had to create it, then your argument holds true for God as well. God could not just exist, the same way you say that matter could not just exist, therefore, something had to have created God.

I know you won't do so, but study up on some physics, and you'll learn that, indeed, something can come out of nothing. It happens all the time. Just google "vacuum fluctuations" to get you started.

[JW Cash]

maybe, maybe not. you have the same amount of proof as a person that says there is no god.

most of what makes up the known universe is yet unexplained... it could be anything.. the answer could be there.. it could be god.. it could be something else.. who knows.

like john lennon said... "whatever gets you through the night, it's alright"

John Lennon also said

" God is a concept by which we can measure our pain "

------------------------------

God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that's reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I'm reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I'm John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over

[chilidog]

In my immediate family alone, I have 2 doctors, a pharmacist, pharmacy owner, nuclear plant manager with very high clearance, aeronautical engineer who develops future fighter jets for the government. They are all Christians and they all have IQs in genius range. They all live lives I would do anything to live. And that is just my family.

Makes me wonder how do all these geniuses in your family feel about kneeling before an ancient medieval torture device on the day of Ra (the Egyptian sun god).

[saintjames]

i believe every bookie is the devil in disguise

[beach nut]

The devil is a fictional character.

[yisman]

No intelligent discourse can come from a thread like this one.

Fruit of the poisonous tree.

[sickler]

God, The Devil, Heaven, Hell

Learn it, know it, live it

[muldoon]

Then explain why 77% (and rising) of all Americans are Christian.

86% in 1990, 76% in 2008 - SOURCE

You call that climbing?

How could anyone believe we are in the end times? One of the first things God does in the end times is to take all Christians into heaven with him. that has not happened yet. So who would think we are in the end times? No Christians I know believe this.

Princeton Research Associates conducted a poll in 1997 and found that 45% of American Christians in general (78% of Evangelicals) believed in Armageddon as described in the bible, and that 47% of those (averaged) believed that the Anti-Christ was already on Earth and that we were in end times.

Just because your family clings to tradition and buys into some of the myth, and not all of it, doesn't mean there are those in power who don't buy the whole fairytale.

Many of these people believe that it's Gods Will that the end of times begins in the area around Israel. Do you really want these people dealing with Mid-East or Peace matters?

[Goat Milk]

John Lennon also said

" God is a concept by which we can measure our pain "

------------------------------

I guess we should all just listen to Lennon then. There's our answer

[Goat Milk]

Then explain why 77% (and rising) of all Americans are Christian. And I'd say that probably half of these people are very happy and/or make very good money and live lives most would envy. In my immediate family alone, I have 2 doctors, a pharmacist, pharmacy owner, nuclear plant manager with very high clearance, aeronautical engineer who develops future fighter jets for the government. They are all Christians and they all have IQs in genius range. They all live lives I would do anything to live. And that is just my family.


How could anyone believe we are in the end times? One of the first things God does in the end times is to take all Christians into heaven with him. that has not happened yet. So who would think we are in the end times? No Christians I know believe this.

It sounds as if you a devout christian. Do you remember in Mathiew where Jesus says "[beware], false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." Jesus also predicted natural disasters, wars, famine, and persecution by those who worship him.

Jesus also says that "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: when its branch…puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, at the very doors" in another book of the Bible. The Book of Revelations points to specific warning signs (wont get into them). it elicits he corruption of man, and how it would lead to our downfall. Man is more corrupt today than ever.

Of course, these are just sentiments from religious books. The Quran also warns man of this day. Judgement day. In Christianity "God will come again to judge the living and the dead"- Muslims also believe God will judge you based on the 5 pillars of Islam.

There are several things I chose and chose not to believe in my Catholic Religion. I do not agree that Jesus is God. Jesus is NOT God. I cannot agree with this philosophy. It is impossible for someone to be the son of the God and God himself, even if they are considered one entity, the mere creation of Jesus from a Virgin takes the work of a separate entity.

[Goat Milk]

There is no scientific explanation for the intricacy of the human brain. The potential of the human brain is extraordinary. It is not a product of evolution. And even if it were a product of evolution, that process of evolution would have to be engineered so precisely. Everything around it would have to be manipulated to perfection for evolution to even OCCUR. The conditions must be optimal. The air, the climate, the tools around us, why is it that we've always had everything necessary around us to subsist? Even going back to the Homo Erectus days.

The changes that take place in other species are usually physical only, improvement of defense mechanisms, etc.
The development of humans is our brains. We are able to internalize sentiments. we have emotions. Emotions are not a product of evolution otherwise all species would have it. Darwin's theory of evolution loses credibility here because he is not able to effectively answer any of the questions.

[adamsutton]

the problem is not how many beleive
but does devil eexist?

[BrentCrude]

Ever been to the real sin city''Washington DC''?

Just go to Washington DC ''Sin city'' and on every street corner they have Korean women manicursits that have big signs in their windows for,we do horn grinding here.It takes about 40 days for horns to start re-sprouting where they need regrinding but there is a breed of devils from Chicago that need it every few days.

[GonzosDirtyTrail]

The devil does not exist.

[THE PROFIT]

God is real. If you have any kind of rational mind at all, you would realize that humans, water, trees, oxygen produced by plants, chemical bonds, mitochondria, its all impossible without an original energy starting the process.

Things don't get moving unless somebody starts the movement.

Where did the first cell come from? Where did the first atom come from? Where did the first THING come from? There is no other explanation but God.

wileout, thats great if you want to believe that, everyone has the right to believe anything they want, no matter how ridiculous, and I respect that.

But why is everything that can't be explained & even things like the origin of life that can be explained to a certain extent with better accuracy, always the work of an invisible all seeing all knowing diety in the sky who had a zombie son that was born to a virgin mother? Which sounds more absurd?

[Albert Pujols]

wileout, thats great if you want to believe that, everyone has the right to believe anything they want, no matter how ridiculous, and I respect that.

But why is everything that can't be explained & even things like the origin of life that can be explained to a certain extent with better accuracy, always the work of an invisible all seeing all knowing diety in the sky who had a zombie son that was born to a virgin mother? Which sounds more absurd?

It just comes down to natural vs. supernatural. Was the miracle that is this universe, and the pocket that we are in where life can exist.....could that have just happened? It's much more logical to me to recognize that there has to be a supernatural element.

I mean........not only does it exist, but we can see it. How? Vision. What is vision? How can there be eyeballs and a brain that work together to give us the visual image of the world without a creator?

[muldoon]

I mean........not only does it exist, but we can see it. How? Vision. What is vision? How can there be eyeballs and a brain that work together to give us the visual image of the world without a creator?

Just because your mind can't get around concepts like eyes or vision (or magnets for ICP fans), doesn't mean they can't be explained. Explain color to a blind person, or sound to someone who is deaf. Science has an excellent grasp on how color is interpreted, yet try to explain it to a person blind from birth - good luck. That doesn't make color supernatural.

The belief that "well, we can't explain it, it must be God" has held back scientific discovery for centuries.

[Albert Pujols]

Just because your mind can't get around concepts like eyes or vision (or magnets for ICP fans), doesn't mean they can't be explained. Explain color to a blind person, or sound to someone who is deaf. Science has an excellent grasp on how color is interpreted, yet try to explain it to a person blind from birth - good luck. That doesn't make color supernatural.

The belief that "well, we can't explain it, it must be God" has held back scientific discovery for centuries.

It makes the ability to see supernatural. There is nothing to discover scientifically without a creator.

[chilidog]

It makes the ability to see supernatural.

su·per·nat·u·ral   [soo-per-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl]
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

You think that eyesight is abnormal, or not natural?

There is nothing to discover scientifically without a creator.

As I stated earlier in the thread, you are implying that matter could not exist without something creating it. Therefore, by your very definition, god could not exist, without something creating it.

[muldoon]

Therefore, by your very definition, god could not exist, without something creating it.

No need to read back the numbers. We have a BINGO.

[Albert Pujols]

su·per·nat·u·ral   [soo-per-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl]
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

You think that eyesight is abnormal, or not natural?



As I stated earlier in the thread, you are implying that matter could not exist without something creating it. Therefore, by your very definition, god could not exist, without something creating it.

God could not exist within the laws of this universe, correct. I can't explain how God does not have a beginning, but it's much easier to accept that there's a God then try to explain how a million things have happened to create order on their own.

[Albert Pujols]

If you don't believe in God, fine. You may very well be intelligent and come to that conclusion. Just don't say that all creationists are morons. I'm very intelligent and I have no doubts about the existence of a creator.

[chilidog]

God could not exist within the laws of this universe, correct. I can't explain how God does not have a beginning, but it's much easier to accept that there's a God then try to explain how a million things have happened to create order on their own.

It may be easier to make that assumption, but that does not make it correct.

Matter can create itself out of nothing. It is not difficult to understand. I would rather research something and learn about the scientific explanations for things, rather than chalk it up to 'god did it', simply because I chose to take the easy route and not try to educate myself further.

Many people need a crutch to get through life. They are not strong enough to do it on their own. They have to give the problems away to their god. I believe that prayer is purely psychological. You create your own destiny.

[chilidog]

I'm very intelligent and I have no doubts about the existence of a creator.

A creator that requires that you worship him, and tell him how awesome he is, and how much you love him and need him, and you must follow his 10 sacred laws, or else you suffer pain and torture for all of eternity. As George Carlin said "but he loves you..."

[Albert Pujols]

It may be easier to make that assumption, but that does not make it correct.

Matter can create itself out of nothing. It is not difficult to understand. I would rather research something and learn about the scientific explanations for things, rather than chalk it up to 'god did it', simply because I chose to take the easy route and not try to educate myself further.

Many people need a crutch to get through life. They are not strong enough to do it on their own. They have to give the problems away to their god. I believe that prayer is purely psychological. You create your own destiny.

You have much more faith than any religious person could ever have.

[DwightShrute]

He's in the White House

[chilidog]

You have much more faith than any religious person could ever have.

Faith in what?

On one hand, you have science. Science can be proven/disproven. There is factual evidence to back this up.

On the other hand, you have religion. A story passed down from generation to generation. No factual evidence to back this up. Just because something is accepted by the majority, does not make it correct. It was once common knowledge that the world was flat.