News Flash: Santa Claus's first visit is Wall Street!

[SBR_John]

Market poised for the largest opening gain in history. Of course drive for show and putt for dough meaning what will happen by the close? Looks like a huge day.

[SBR_John]

Up +250 after 8 minutes.

[jjgold]

Right nw just a decent day

Market internals are very weak still

[Tchocky]

Lots of guys were shorting the market after Fed announcement yesterday falling short of expectations. Duh!

[Dark Horse]

Not sure what to think about that opening. Had a somewhat artificial flavor. After yesterday, and the Fed's 'displeasure' (more like shock) at the market's reaction to the cut, I sort of expect the Plunge Protection Team back in full swing.

[BigBollocks]

I kept my mouth shut when I first saw this thread as I didn't want to be perceived as a buzzkill, but I too agree with some of the posts above. This will be a VERY shortlived celebration. I would strongly urge other SBR members involved in the market to consider pulling out soon if they're not in a specialized area in which they have some expertise. 2008 will bring a strong recession gents, and I absolutely hate to say so...

[RageWizard]

I kept my mouth shut when I first saw this thread as I didn't want to be perceived as a buzzkill, but I too agree with some of the posts above. This will be a VERY shortlived celebration. I would strongly urge other SBR members involved in the market to consider pulling out soon if they're not in a specialized area in which they have some expertise. 2008 will bring a strong recession gents, and I absolutely hate to say so...

I agree, I think that after the Chrismas rally and New Years, I will probably short the dow 30 stocks for about 3 or 4 months or until the crash I'm expecting to happen, happens. Then I'm gonna load up.

[Dark Horse]

How does a market open +250 pts and three hours later has given almost all of it back? If the PPT is still alive and kicking, this would be a good time to step in.

[DrunkenLullaby]

If this is the best Santa can do, I'll be expecting my usual lump of coal this year!

[Dark Horse]

This is going to be one ugly last hour.

[DrunkenLullaby]

I had predicted a crash today. Clearly gonna be wrong on that, but without the Fed liquidity infusion move I might have been right.

[ShamsWoof10]

You guys have been waiting for this thing to fall and it's not going to.(I don't mean in a day) If you keep shorting you'll pay dearly... I have posted many times that this thing should be over 14K by years end and it's not... I don't know why but it's not that far off...

You guys have terrible memories... In 02' things were far better then they are now and the market dropped from 10K to 7K and CRUSHING it's 2000 high...

Today housing is sh*t, the economy over all is worse, the credit crunch is taking hold, and jobs are an endangered species... HOW THE F*CK IS THE MARKET EVEN OVER 10K..?

Keeping thinking it's going lower and you will end up suckin' an old man off for housing...

Every year for the next AT LEAST 5 years it's going higher.. It may not in real terms but you guys are not talking about that... In actual terms it's going higher...

I really love when people talk about "THEY" as trying to hold this thing up... Please!!!!! It's doubled since 02'.. They didn't just keep it up they f*ckin' basket tossed it...

[Dark Horse]

This Fed is such a bunch of out-of-touch academics. If they had cut by 50 the Dow would be past 14,000 by now, without a question.

Now we're back to kissing 13K and they'll be forced to cut the other 25 pts soon anyway.

[ShamsWoof10]

This Fed is such a bunch of out-of-touch academics. If they had cut by 50 the Dow would be past 14,000 by now, without a question.

Now we're back to kissing 13K and they'll be forced to cut the other 25 pts soon anyway.

Well I can say one thing FOR CERTAIN... I don't think they are running the fed and we are posting because we are so much smarter then they are... This includes Ganch. and his calculators...

I feel they know exactly what they are doing but they don't do it on your/our time... They do it on their time...

The market has nearly doubled in five years under worse and worse conditions so OBVIOUSLY THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!!!

[DrunkenLullaby]

Shamsy, I fail to find any area of strength in the US Economy. I see a populace in debt up to their eyeballs, experiencing big depreciation in their only significant asset (their homes) and a severe tightening of the credit that they ultimately all rely on to survive from month-to month. And I also don't see any industry where we are widening any competitive advantage over the rest of the world.

Certainly the market CAN continue to defy that and go up, but I welcome any sound argument as to WHY it should go up.

Be careful with your long positions, my adversary.

[JC]

This Fed is such a bunch of out-of-touch academics. If they had cut by 50 the Dow would be past 14,000 by now, without a question.

Now we're back to kissing 13K and they'll be forced to cut the other 25 pts soon anyway.

Why is the Fed expected to prop up the market? I don't think that's part of their mission statement, although it's obvious that's what they are doing.

I wish they would stay out of the way and stop destroying the dollar.

[JC]

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/mission/default.htm

Mission

The Federal Reserve System is the central bank of the United States. It was founded by Congress in 1913 to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role in banking and the economy has expanded.

Today, the Federal Reserve’s duties fall into four general areas:

conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system

[ShamsWoof10]

http://www.federalreserve.gov/genera...on/default.htm

Mission

The Federal Reserve System is the central bank of the United States. It was founded by Congress in 1913 to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role in banking and the economy has expanded.

Today, the Federal Reserve’s duties fall into four general areas:

conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system

Really...????

[Dark Horse]

-

[BrentCrude]

Even if Dow hits 14K,it's the late 90's dollar value Dow 8K

Dow is nearing 14 K with an american dollar at about 60% it's value from just a few years ago.

Then you get no interest on putting money in the bank,so it goes into the stock market.

Then most of the rise in the stock market is due to institutional buyers which are allot of government type pension funds.That's just Keynesian makework funny money.

Then you have the stealth government funded plunge protection team buying stock.If you ask Bush about the plunge team he probably wouldn't know about it.hehe!Either that or he would say they don't exist and lie about it.

If the economy is sooooo good,why do they have to keep lowering interest rates where they want sucker young people to buy and consume on credit to prop up the economy?You can blame most divorces on families getting in over their heads with credit.Then you have chaos with dysfunctional families where the government has to start more programs and spend more tax dollars to cure this problem that they will just make worse.What a vicious circle!!!Then the national union of federal,state and county social workers will have a big pot of retirement money paid for by the tax payer with fiat currency to invest institutionally in the stock market to make the Dow go higher.hehehe!

I remember a guy I know that loves playing poker and he played a bit down in Brazil and Argentina I believe years ago.He said the money was devaluating so fast,they would set pot limits etc.higher as the night went on to keep up with devalued currency.

My heritage is half Yugoslav-Croation and it's a hoot hearing about all the calamity that took place there especially with finance the past couple hundred years.The proud bohunks in the family still speak so highly of the place like it was such a great place.hehe!I purposely bought some 1,000,000,000 dinara banknotes a few years ago for a few dollars on e-bay because it was the biggest bank note ever created I think.In old country commie bohunkville where my ancestors came from,you could be a land barron at one time with that amount of money.When it disolved a few years ago,you could probably buy a shot of Slivavitz ,plum liquor with it.


I'm not saying we are there yet,but that's the direction we are heading in.

Anyone ever read Ben Bernanke's, the fed chief's biography on Wickipedia?Pretty interesting bio.He's a Jew that grew up down south in South Carolina and or Georgia.That's unusal.He didn't come from super wealth but all his relatives seemed to be into business in theatre chains etc.The guy had ties to finances.He was valedictorian of his public high school,was self taught in physics and played the sax in the school band.I think he got a free ride to the Ivy League.Of course the guy is smart,but is he devious smart like Bill Clinton or just book smart and dumb in practical common sense?The guy wears expensive clothes but he looks like the bum Red Skelton played named Clem kaddiddle hopper.hehe!Or that guy Charlie,that was Wild Bill Hickock's schill on the series Deadwood that tried dressing up but was grubby.His claim to fame was telling Milton Friedman that it might be a good idea throwing money from helicopters into cities to prop up the economy.His nickname is the helicopter man.

P.S.I SEE SBR JOHN STARTED THIS THREAD.HEY SBR JOHN,WHY DID YOU DELETE MY THREAD ABOUT PRESENTS FOR TEENAGERS WITHOUT AN INCOME BEING GIVEN 1 MILLION SHARES OF PINK SHEET PENNY STOCK FOR $100?I DID MENTION GAMBLING IN THE HEADER AND TEENAGERS SO THAT WAS MY IDIOTIC MISTAKE.HEHE!IT WAS A GOOD POST AND MEANT TO INFORM PEOPLE WITH A FEW BUCKS HERE THAT IT'S SORT OF FUN TAKING A SHOT AT MAKING SOME MONEY WHERE A TEENEAGER CAN MAKE ABOUT 7K WITHOUT PAYING TAXES ON IT.

SHAMSWOLF,DO YOU EVER DABBLE IN PENNY STOCKS?YOU SEEM LIKE ALLOT OF GUYS I USED TO CHAT WITH ON RAGING BULL WHO USED TO BE IN PENNY STOCK.IT CAN BE HABIT FORMING BUYING PENNY STOCK AND FOLLOWING IT ON THE RAGING BULL FORUM.THE DAY TRADERS SEEM LIKE THAT'S ALL THEY DO IN LIFE IS HANG AROUND RAGING BULL FROM ABOUT 4 IN THE AFTERNOON TILL 3 IN THE MORNING.IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE MOST OF THE PENNY STOCK PEOPLE DON'T SPORTS BET AT ALL AND MOST SPORTS BETTORS AREN'T INTO PENNY STOCK AT ALL.THE TWO ARE VERY SIMILAR IN MANY WAYS.

[Dark Horse]

Why is the Fed expected to prop up the market? I don't think that's part of their mission statement, although it's obvious that's what they are doing.

I wish they would stay out of the way and stop destroying the dollar.

This is a private bank that, by my estimates, is entirely illegal.
They print money out of thin air, and charge the government, which should print that money itself, a nice chunk of interest on it.

I don't know why we accept this institution, but we can probably agree that the debate about the dollar is about a balancing act. Does the economy support the dollar, or the dollar the economy? Ultimately, the stock market is a reflection of our economy. Not to mention that the global economy is tied into ours (see yesterdays red figures around the world in response to the Dow).
If the markets tank, the dollar will turn out to be just what it is: a printed piece of worthless paper.


(Huh. Nice comeback by the market. Thank you Santa PPT!! )

[ShamsWoof10]

Dow is nearing 14 K with an american dollar at about 60% it's value from just a few years ago.

Then you get no interest on putting money in the bank,so it goes into the stock market.

Then most of the rise in the stock market is due to institutional buyers which are allot of government type pension funds.That's just Keynesian makework funny money.

Then you have the stealth government funded plunge protection team buying stock.If you ask Bush about the plunge team he probably wouldn't know about it.hehe!Either that or he would say they don't exist and lie about it.

If the economy is sooooo good,why do they have to keep lowering interest rates where they want sucker young people to buy and consume to prop up the economy?

I remember a guy I know that loves playing poker and he played a bit down in Brazil and Argentina I believe years ago.He said the money was devaluating so fast,they would set pot limits etc.higher as the night went on to keep up with inflation.

My heritage is half Yugoslav-Croation and it's a hoot hearing about all the calamity that took place there especially with finance the past couple hundred years.The proud bohunks in the family still speak so highly of the place like it was such a great place.hehe!I purposely bought some 1,000,000,000 dinara banknotes a few years ago for a few dollars on e-bay because it was the biggest bank note ever created I think.In old country commie bohunkville where my ancestors came from,you could be a land barron with that amount of money.When it disolved a few years ago,you could probably buy a shot of Slivavitz ,plum liquor with it.

I'm not saying we are there yet,but that's the direction we are heading in.

I totally agree.... Also when I say the market is going higher I do NOT mean the economy will get better... It will continue down and major inflation will happen as you say...

Drunkin' this has been the trend this decade and there is no reason to think it can't continue regardless of the pace...

[DrunkenLullaby]

Well, you (and Brent) came up with the one reason for stock PRICE escalation that I won't dispute - inflation.

However I still see no reason for the REAL value of the shares of most companies to do anything better than tread water in this economy.

[Dark Horse]

It's a global economy. Mistake to think of US as a separate entity. We can definitely navigate through the mine field with the help of the world (see Dubai investment that really helped turn things around last month). Invest in international companies.

[ShamsWoof10]

Well, you (and Brent) came up with the one reason for stock PRICE escalation that I won't dispute - inflation.

However I still see no reason for the REAL value of the shares of most companies to do anything better than tread water in this economy.

The "real value" of the larger companies share prices are NOT even treading water... When the indexes are pushed higher it's usually companies with smaller market caps... Since the index is an average it's easier to push it up using small market cap companies as opposed to larger ones...

I SPECIFICALLY remember GE being a hair over $30 a share when the Dow was 8K in the summer of 02'... What is it today...?

[THE HITMAN]

Santa's been very busy, delivering to evertone a Michael Vick jailing, and OJ & Barry Bonds indictments.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Santa's been very busy, delivering to evertone a Michael Vick jailing, and OJ & Barry Bonds indictments.

If you like that, you'll love tomorrow's baseball blotter. I can't believe no book has taken advantage of the opportunity to post "Will XYZ's name appear in the steroid report?" props. I'd love to get down on "yes" for the Rocket Man.

[DrunkenLullaby]

Guys, I really really hate touting anything, but I would seriously recommend picking up some gold on today's dip. It seems totally insane for it to drop in the wake of today's highly inflationary PPI numbers.

Good luck to all in this minefield of an economy.

[RageWizard]

Guys, I really really hate touting anything, but I would seriously recommend picking up some gold on today's dip. It seems totally insane for it to drop in the wake of today's highly inflationary PPI numbers.

Good luck to all in this minefield of an economy.

I think that Goldman will Sack you has been holding down the price of gold now for a while. When gold goes up everybody will think that inflation is rising. So the heavys at goldman have been pushing the gold prices down on you know whos orders. Eventually it would seem that the price of gold will have to increase if for nothing more than the value of the dollar dropping.

[DrunkenLullaby]

I think that Goldman will Sack you has been holding down the price of gold now for a while. When gold goes up everybody will think that inflation is rising. So the heavys at goldman have been pushing the gold prices down on you know whos orders. Eventually it would seem that the price of gold will have to increase if for nothing more than the value of the dollar dropping.

Well, given the choice I guess I'd rather have my investment artificially repressed than artificially inflated.