Is Neteller Totally Safe for the Non-NorthAmericans

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  • Newguyintown
    SBR Sharp
    • 12-24-05
    • 348

    #1
    Is Neteller Totally Safe for the Non-NorthAmericans
    So what is the current state of Neteller,

    Is Neteller working smoothly for the non-NorthAmericans? And now that the Americans have been paid in full has all question been removed about the safety of funds?


    New Guy
  • SBR_John
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 07-12-05
    • 16471

    #2
    My opinion would be yes.

    They held a lot of SBR's money hostage for what seemed like forever so I'm not a big fan. But I do think they are safe.
    Comment
    • 20Four7
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 04-08-07
      • 6703

      #3
      my opinion is yes. I would be back there in a minute if they opened back up to canadians. I don't belame neteller for what happened with the americans but their own government. I belame them for the state of neteller with canadians too. I just hope after 2 years we get neteller back.
      Comment
      • Ortho
        SBR High Roller
        • 06-09-06
        • 175

        #4
        I am non-US and have not had one minute of problems with them before or after the US rules changed.
        Comment
        • bigboydan
          SBR Aristocracy
          • 08-10-05
          • 55420

          #5
          Didn't they postpone the sentencing hearing of one of those two guys they busted in this whole Neteller mess? I thought it was suppose to be originally scheduled for Oct. 29th.
          Comment
          • nikosgr
            Restricted User
            • 08-26-05
            • 218

            #6
            Neteller is great, as always.
            Comment
            • robzilla
              SBR MVP
              • 10-25-07
              • 3556

              #7
              I was pissed off when Neteller cut off service to Canadians! I can understand cutting off Americans, cuz of the gaming law.... but canadians have no law...online gaming isnt even a gray area in most canadians eyes.

              It also sucks cuz thier call center is based in Calgary. So they use our land but wont give service to the country they work out of? that's gay!
              Comment
              • 20Four7
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 04-08-07
                • 6703

                #8
                Originally posted by robzilla
                I was pissed off when Neteller cut off service to Canadians! I can understand cutting off Americans, cuz of the gaming law.... but canadians have no law...online gaming isnt even a gray area in most canadians eyes.

                It also sucks cuz thier call center is based in Calgary. So they use our land but wont give service to the country they work out of? that's gay!
                It's not gay, it's what Neteller had to do to settle the American issue. To many yanks were getting a Canadian Bank account and a canadian address via Mailbox's etc and a Canadian cell phone to take phone calls and still using neteller. It's due to the US government that Canadians have no neteller. I know it's unfortunate but we got stuck in the middle.
                Comment
                • robzilla
                  SBR MVP
                  • 10-25-07
                  • 3556

                  #9
                  Originally posted by 20Four7
                  It's not gay, it's what Neteller had to do to settle the American issue. To many yanks were getting a Canadian Bank account and a canadian address via Mailbox's etc and a Canadian cell phone to take phone calls and still using neteller. It's due to the US government that Canadians have no neteller. I know it's unfortunate but we got stuck in the middle.
                  What you just wrote was totally gay!

                  You dont cut off service to a country because of a few people in the US. Americans use the same reasoning for fighting "terrorists" in Iraq. Just cuz people from Saudi Arabia come to Iraq to fight doesnt mean Iraqis should pay for it. Cut them off at the source!

                  Just cuz some Americans (terrorists) get canadian shit, doesnt mean all canadians should pay the price.... Cut off americans in america.

                  Americans claiming to be Canadian isnt Netellers fault.

                  Anyways, **** YOU GEORGE W BUSH...i ****in hate you!
                  Comment
                  • bigboydan
                    SBR Aristocracy
                    • 08-10-05
                    • 55420

                    #10
                    I came across this one while doing a Google search for something, and I remembered your question about NT. Anyways, I thought I'd share it with you in case you might have either missed it or care.

                    Code:
                    [URL="http://www.hemscott.com/news/rna/item.do?newsId=52587579834666"]NETeller PLC - Q3 Trading Update[/URL]
                    
                    RNS Number:0846H
                    NETeller PLC
                    06 November 2007
                    
                    
                                                  NETELLER Plc
                    
                    
                            THIRD QUARTER TRADING UPDATE SHOWS CONTINUED SOLID PROGRESS
                    
                    
                    Tuesday, 6 November 2007 - NETELLER Plc (LSE: NLR), the world's leading
                    independent global online payments business, today announces its trading update
                    for the three months ended 30 September 2007.
                    
                    Highlights
                    
                    
                      * Continued progress to be pre-eminent provider of online gaming sector
                        related payments solutions
                    
                    
                      * Active customers (ex North America) up 14% to 94,925 in Q3 2007 from
                        83,627 (Q3 2006)
                    
                    
                      * Total revenue in Q3 2007 was $16.9m - fee revenue ex-interest increased
                        25% from Q3 2006
                    
                    
                      * European revenue in Q3 2007 grew 19% to $8.4m and Asia Pacific revenue
                        grew 41% to $3.0m both compared to Q3 2006 figures (ex-interest)
                    
                    
                      * Gross margin in Q3 2007 was 60%, compared to 55% in H1 2007
                    
                    
                      * Loss before tax in Q3 2007 was $145.9m due to US forfeiture and related US
                        expenses
                    
                    
                      * Cash at 30 September 2007 was $149.4m; $40m paid to US authorities on 15
                        October 2007
                    
                    
                      * Cash flow from operations positive in Q3 2007
                    
                    
                    Ron Martin, President & Chief Executive Officer of NETELLER, said 'The third
                    quarter has demonstrated the resilience of the NETELLER business and the results
                    from our European and Asia Pacific businesses show that we are regaining the
                    trust of customers and continuing to deliver innovative solutions to our
                    merchants.  Geographic diversification remains a key part of our growth strategy
                    although the Board continues to be mindful of regulatory concerns in certain
                    markets.
                    
                    
                    Our strong presence at EiG in Barcelona reiterated our commitment and focus to
                    the online gaming sector and I believe we are progressing well in one of our
                    core mission objectives, to be the pre-eminent provider of payment solutions for
                    selected markets in the online gaming sector.  The launch of the first phase of
                    our global card programme is proceeding as planned and we are on track to offer
                    additional card-related services during the first half of 2008.
                    
                    
                    The Board remains confident about prospects for the business for the full year
                    and beyond.'
                    
                    
                    Enquiries:
                    
                    NETELLER Plc                  (for 6 November at Citigate)  + 44 (0) 207 638 9571
                    Ron Martin          President & CEO
                    Doug Terry          CFO
                    Andrew Gilchrist    VP Communications                      + 44 (0) 7824 385 829
                    
                    
                    Daniel Stewart & Co Plc                                    + 44 (0) 207 776 6550
                    Paul Shackleton
                    
                    Citigate Dewe Rogerson                                     + 44 (0) 207 638 9571
                    Sarah Gestetner / Sebastian Hoyle / George Cazenove
                    
                    
                    Notes to Editors
                    
                    About the NETELLER Group
                    
                    
                    The NETELLER Group operates the world's leading independent online payments
                    business and specialises in providing innovative and instant payment services
                    where money transfer is difficult or risky due to identity, trust, currency
                    exchange or distance. Being independent has allowed the Group to support
                    thousands of retailers and merchants in many geographies and across multiple
                    industries.
                    
                    
                    NETELLER Plc is quoted on the London Stock Exchange's AIM market, with a ticker
                    symbol of NLR. NETELLER (UK) Limited is authorised and regulated by the
                    Financial Services Authority (FSA) to operate as a regulated e-money issuer. For
                    more information about the Group visit [url]www.netellergroup.com[/url].
                    
                    
                                                            * * *
                    
                    
                    This discussion and analysis contains forward-looking statements relating to
                    future events and future performance.  In some cases, forward-looking statements
                    can be identified by terminology such as 'may', 'will', 'should''expects', '
                    projects', 'plans', 'anticipates', and similar expressions.  These statements
                    represent management's expectations or beliefs concerning, among other things,
                    future operating results and various components thereof or the economic
                    performance of NETELLER. The projections, estimates and beliefs contained in
                    such forward-looking statements necessarily involve known and unknown risks and
                    uncertainties, which may cause the actual performance and financial results in
                    future periods to differ materially from any projections of future performance
                    or results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.
                    Accordingly, readers are cautioned that events or circumstances could cause
                    results to differ materially from those predicted.
                    
                    
                                                        * * * *
                    
                    
                    Operational and Financial Highlights
                    
                    All financial figures in US$ unless otherwise noted.
                    
                    Customers and Sign ups
                    
                    The Group's active customer base in Q3 2007 increased to 142,153 from the
                    117,056 active customers recorded in Q2 2007.  The Q3 2007 figure included
                    47,150 active customers in North America whose only 'active' transaction was a
                    withdrawal of funds from their NETELLER e-wallet.  The number of non-North
                    American active customers at the end of Q3 2007 was 94,925, an increase of 14%
                    from the end of Q3 2006.  The regional distribution of active customers included
                    72,849 in Europe (an increase of 12% over the corresponding period in 2006) and
                    17,638 in Asia Pacific (up 21% from the same period in 2006).  These results
                    demonstrate the Group's continued focus on the markets of Europe and Asia
                    Pacific.
                    
                    The table below sets out our active customers by region:
                    
                    Active customers                      Q3 2007         Q3 2006       Q3 '07 vs         Q2 2007       Q3 '07 vs
                                                                                         Q3 '06 %                        Q2 '07 %
                    Europe                                 72,849          64,964             12%          76,964             -5%
                    Asia Pacific                           17,638          14,533             21%          15,792              4%
                    Rest of World                           4,438           4,130              7%           4,460              0%
                    Total ex North America                 94,925          83,627             14%          97,216             -2%
                    Total customers ex North              895,334         555,259             61%         815,910             10%
                    America
                    
                    
                    The Group's total customer base (including North American customers) at end of
                    Q3 2007 was 3,839,807.  The total, excluding North America, was 895,334
                    customers, an increase of 61% from the figure at 30 September 2006.
                    
                    Average daily receipts from customers were approximately $295k during Q3 2007
                    (Q3 2006: $5.31 million). The decrease of 94% was principally due to the
                    withdrawal from the North American market during the first quarter of 2007.
                    Total receipts from customers during the period totalled $27.2 million.
                    
                    
                    Average daily sign-ups of new customers was 900 during Q3 2007 (Q3 2006: 3,218)
                    representing a decrease of 72%. Again, this decrease was almost entirely
                    attributable to the withdrawal from servicing the North American market during
                    Q1 2007. In Q2 2007, 937 new customers per day signed up for the Group's
                    e-wallet.
                    
                    
                    Revenue
                    
                    
                    Revenue for the third quarter of $16.9 million represented a decrease of 75%
                    from $66.7 million for Q3 2006.  Excluding North America, fee revenue, which
                    includes charges paid by individual and merchant customers of both the e-wallet
                    and Netbanx, increased 25% from $10.8 million to $13.5 million in Q3 2007.
                    Interest revenue of $3.4 million was significantly lower compared with $5.3
                    million in Q3 2006 due to the repayment of over $75 million in funds owed to US
                    customers under the Distribution Plan.  Interest revenue is expected to decline
                    further during Q4 2007 following the initial payment of $40 million to the US
                    authorities on 15 October 2007 from the Group's cash resources.
                    
                    
                    During Q3 2007, Europe accounted for approximately $8.4 million in revenue
                    before interest (an increase of 19% over $7.1 million in Q3 2006), and Asia
                    Pacific accounted for $3.0 million during Q3 2007 (an increase of 41% over $2.1
                    million during Q3 2006).
                    
                    
                    The table below sets out our fee revenue by region and revenue from NetBanx and
                    interest income:
                    
                    
                    Revenue                   Q3 2007     Q3 2006    Q3 '07 vs     YTD 2007      Q2 2007  Q3 '07 vs    Q1 2007
                                                                       Q3'06 %                             Q2 '07 %
                    ($ millions)
                    Europe (ex NetBanx)           8.4         7.1          19%         26.5          8.7        -3%        9.4
                    Asia Pacific                  3.0         2.1          41%          8.4          2.9         2%        2.5
                    Rest of World                 0.4         0.3          17%          1.5          0.5       -30%        0.6
                    Total Fee revenue            11.8         9.5          24%         36.4         12.1        -3%       12.5
                    NetBanx                       1.8         1.3          36%          4.9          1.6        10%        1.5
                    Interest                      3.4         5.3         -35%         11.7          3.9       -12%        4.3
                    Total                        16.9        16.1           5%         52.9         17.6        -4%       18.3
                    North America (1)             0.0        50.6        -100%         14.9          0.5       -98%       14.4
                    Total                        16.9        66.7         -75%         67.8         18.1        -6%       32.7
                    
                    
                    (1)     Some residual revenue was earned from North American operations during
                    H1 2007 prior to the Group's withdrawal from the US and subsequently Canada.
                    
                    
                    Gross margin
                    
                    
                    Due to recent events and the resulting significant change in market
                    concentration, gross margin has decreased to 60% (compared to 71.8 % during the
                    same period in 2006).  This is flat compared to Q2 2007 (60%) and represented an
                    increase from the 51% recorded in Q1 2007.  Q1 2007 margin was lower due to
                    increased bad debt incurred on the withdrawal from North America.
                    
                    
                    Customer support costs continued to represent the largest proportion of direct
                    costs at 15.6% of revenue, as the strength of the Canadian dollar vs the US
                    dollar continues.  Website maintenance costs were 10.6% of revenues.  Both
                    expense categories are largely fixed being labour-related expenses principally
                    focused in our Calgary operations.  Deposit and withdrawal fees decreased to
                    11.1% of revenue compared to 13.6% in Q2.  Although the Group incurred certain
                    charges in returning funds to its US customers, it has been successful in
                    reducing processing costs and local banking fees, particularly in Europe.  Bad
                    debts and collections represented 2.4% of revenues in Q3 2007, a reduction which
                    was anticipated following the withdrawal from the North American market and
                    cessation of Instacash products.
                    
                    
                    Operating expenses and restructuring costs
                    
                    The Group incurred an operating loss before tax of $145.9 million.  This
                    includes the forfeiture to the US authorities as announced earlier this year of
                    $136 million which was taken through the profit and loss account in this
                    quarter.  General and administrative expenses increased to $7.5 million up from
                    $7.4 million in Q2 2007.  This was largely due to a strong Canadian Dollar,
                    higher professional fees in the quarter and costs related to the launch of the
                    Group's European debit card program.
                    
                    
                    The Group announced in its interim results statement of 23 August 2007 that
                    reorganisation and restructuring costs (including professional and legal fees
                    incurred in the resolution of the US situation) and write-downs of assets
                    directly relating to the North American business were expected to total between
                    $35 million and $40 million. Included in this estimate is a charge of
                    approximately $2 million paid during Q3 2007 in relation to the cessation of a
                    significant supply contract.  However, this will have a positive ongoing impact
                    as the related monthly expenditure will be reduced.
                    
                    
                    Share option expense is included in general and administrative expense.  For Q3
                    2007, the share option expense was $2.2 million.  As stated in the Company's
                    announcement of 1 November 2007, the Group is looking to cancel a significant
                    number of out-of-the-money options and replace them, subject to the agreement of
                    certain executives.  This will likely result in a further write-off in Q4 2007
                    but will substantially reduce the ongoing cost of the options in the profit and
                    loss account going forward in 2008.
                    
                    
                    The Group sold its property at 41st Avenue, Calgary, in September 2007 for $3.3
                    million.  The sale resulted in a loss on disposal of fixed assets of $216,336.
                    The Group continues to progress discussions regarding the sale of its principal
                    property at 27th Avenue in Calgary and hopes to achieve a sale in line with
                    previous estimates in the first quarter of 2008.
                    
                    
                    Cash position of the Group
                    
                    
                    The total amount of cash available to the Group totalled $149.4 million at 30
                    September 2007 which is stated after deducting the $60 million of funds seized
                    by the US authorities in January 2007 and thereafter, which forms part of the
                    resolution with the US authorities announced in July 2007.  Under this
                    resolution, the Company agreed to forfeit a total of $136 million to the US. The
                    Group made a scheduled payment of $40 million on 15 October 2007, and the
                    remaining balance (approximately $36 million) will be paid on or before 17
                    January 2008.
                    
                    
                    As part of the US resolution, the Group implemented the Distribution Plan to
                    return approximately $94 million of funds owed to US customers.   The Group has
                    to date repaid approximately $78 million of this amount owing.  Any unpaid
                    amounts are currently held in trust accounts with the Group's European bankers.
                    
                    
                    Business highlights
                    
                    The Group made progress in Q3 2007 with its product development programme and
                    also in furthering its payment options.  A key update introduced at the end of
                    the quarter was a simplification of the sign up process designed to improve new
                    customer conversions.  Other developments have included a flexible merchant rate
                    plan, additional customer funds top up features, and a pilot of an affiliate
                    programme (developed from the successful 'Refer-a-friend' programme NETELLER
                    already offers).  The Group's 'Ludicrous' marketing promotion has been
                    successful in generating additional revenue during the traditionally quieter
                    summer months.
                    
                    
                    The Group has successfully migrated its Japanese site to the core e-wallet
                    platform, and further integration between the e-wallet and the NetBanx
                    operations continue to improve internal payment processing capabilities.  A key
                    element of NETELLER's diversification into financial services, the launch of the
                    Group's debit card scheme in early Q3 2007 has seen a strong take up of the new
                    cards, with over 18,000 new pre-paid debit cards being issued to customers to
                    date.  Further progress is expected in the first half of 2008.
                    
                    
                    The $4 million investment in Centricom in July demonstrated the Group's
                    commitment to delivering innovative payment solutions to its customers.  The
                    Group continues to examine investment opportunities in line with its strategic
                    vision.
                    
                    
                    Current trading
                    
                    
                    Since the end of September trading has continued to show positive growth trends
                    in both sign ups and average daily receipts, in line with typical seasonal
                    variations.  Average daily revenue has been in the region of $100,000 per day
                    and unadjusted fees for October are expected to be approximately 7% higher than
                    September.  The Group is continuing to introduce new product features as
                    scheduled and the development pipeline for the fourth quarter should further
                    enhance the offering to both merchants and customers.  The Board remains
                    confident about prospects for the business for the full year and beyond.
                    
                    
                    Third Quarter 2007 Unaudited Financial Information
                    
                    
                                               Q3 - 2007  9 months 2007    Q3 - 2006  9 months 2006      Q2 -2007   2007 to 2006     2007
                                                    US $           US $         US $           US $          US $    Q3      YTD   Q3 to Q2
                    
                    Revenue                   16,945,542     67,790,011   66,671,914    185,566,463    18,180,298   -75 %   -63 %     -7 %
                        Direct Costs         (6,730,292)   (29,812,715) (18,784,956)   (52,322,452)   (7,201,988)   -64 %   -43 %     -7 %
                    Gross profit              10,215,250     37,977,297   47,886,958    133,244,011    10,978,310   -79 %   -71%      -7 %
                    
                        General and Admin    (7,489,513)   (24,665,858) (10,367,105)   (28,562,310)   (7,423,138)   -28 %   -14 %      1 %
                    Operating income           2,725,737     13,311,438   37,519,853    104,681,700     3,555,171   -93 %   -87 %    -23 %
                    
                    Other income
                    (expense)
                        Foreign exchange          19,192      (661,123)    (231,456)         71,995      (375,963)
                        gain
                        Management bonus       (300,000)    (1,012,657)            -    (1,949,710)      (337,878)
                        Depreciation and     (1,805,629)    (6,584,272)   (3,040,454)   (7,977,411)    (1,920,405)
                    Amortisation
                        Stock option         (2,224,016)    (6,672,049)  (1,774,135)    (4,348,951)   (2,224,016)
                    expense
                        Impairment loss                -              -            -              -             -
                        Restructuring        (2,039,535)   (4,761,146)             -              -   (1,951,620)
                    costs
                        Asset write down               -   (13,014,866)            -              -   (1,003,098)
                    
                        US related costs     (6,066,595)   (14,956,502)            -              -   (6,310,946)
                    
                        US forfeiture      (136,000,000)  (136,000,000)            -              -            -
                    
                        Loss on disposal       (216,336)     (216,336)            -              -             -
                    of assets
                    Income before tax      (145,907,182)  (170,572,514)   32,473,808     90,477,623  (10,568,755)
                    
                        Income taxes           (612,037)     (451,639)   (1,713,599)      3,840,006     1,089,757
                    
                    
                    Net income after tax   (146,519,219)  (171,024,153)   30,760,209     86,637,617   (9,478,998)
                    
                    
                    Daily sign ups                   900          1,208        3,218          3,239           937   -72 %   -63 %     -4 %
                    Total customers (at        3,839,807      3,839,807    3,188,650      3,188,650     3,756,983    20 %    20 %      2 %
                    period end)
                    Total active                 142,153             nm      619,550             nm       117,056   -77 %      nm     21 %
                    customers (in
                    quarter) (1)
                    Revenue per active             $ 119             nm        $ 108             nm         $ 155    10 %      nm     -23%
                    customer
                    Average daily                295,365        764,984    5,314,631      4,892,434       339,314   -94 %   -84 %    -13 %
                    receipts from
                    customers
                    Total customer            27,173,582    208,840,583  488,946,070  1,335,634,373    30,877,606   -94 %   -84 %    -12 %
                    receipts
                    
                    (1)        An active customers are defined as a customer whose e-wallet account
                    balance has changed during the quarter.
                    
                    nm   not meaningful
                    
                    
                                          This information is provided by RNS
                                The company news service from the London Stock Exchange
                    Comment
                    • Newguyintown
                      SBR Sharp
                      • 12-24-05
                      • 348

                      #11
                      thanks as always Dan- you are The Man.


                      NG
                      Comment
                      • bigboydan
                        SBR Aristocracy
                        • 08-10-05
                        • 55420

                        #12
                        NP NG,

                        In fact heres an article that might help answer all your questions on this subject.



                        Neteller suffers from US gambling restrictions, looks forward

                        After forfeiting $136 million to the US Department of Justice last year and losing huge percentages of its US customer base and revenue, Neteller has posted 3rd quarter losses but expects business to keep improving as it builds relationships in other parts of the world.

                        Europe and Asia accounted for approximately $8.4 million and $3 million respectively of third quarter revenue. Though numbers in Europe have declined slightly, numbers in Asia are on a steady trend upward.

                        Compared to third quarter numbers for 2006, the US effect has resulted in a 75% drop in revenue, from $67 million to $17 million, while the amount of the average daily receipts fell from $5.3 million to less than $300,000.

                        Despite it all, Neteller CEO Ron Martin sounded positive about the company, saying, “The third quarter has demonstrated the resilience of the Neteller business and the results from our European and Asia Pacific businesses show that we are regaining the trust of customers and continuing to deliver innovative solutions to our merchants.”

                        Neteller stocks here.
                        Comment
                        • NeedProtection
                          SBR High Roller
                          • 02-25-07
                          • 113

                          #13
                          You guys need to quit lying and making stuff up.

                          No one knows why they stopped servicing Canadians. It was probably because their lawyers feared a similar action from the Canadian government.

                          I'm sure it had nothing to do with US Citizens opening canadian bank accounts, getting fake canadian IP address and physical street address so they can bet where exactly??

                          Seriously, is everyone that posts a ****ing moron or is it my imagination.
                          Comment
                          • robzilla
                            SBR MVP
                            • 10-25-07
                            • 3556

                            #14
                            I feel your pain bro! I hate Neteller too, as do alot of Canadians. I dont care what americans were doing. To have service shut off to us canadians was a slap in the face i will never forgive Neteller for it.
                            Comment
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