The RichCoast aftermath. What lesson did we get?

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:00 PM

The lesson learned is to never tell SBR anything in confidence.

**Halifax** · 12-30-05, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Their reason was noble, trying to work a deal, but still you have to come public with news like this.

I guess your decision to take this approach came AFTER Blue Marlin went down ?

**magnavox** · 12-30-05, 11:10 PM

LOL.

**Bill Dozer** · 12-30-05, 11:10 PM

Raiders,

Stop pretending you know something. BookTheBet called and told us to inform players he is bailing out their accounts and gave us the terms. He was quoted and it was as simple as that.

There was no mystery or "behind the scenes" deals being worked out.

TOW was in a bad place because they lead the players to the bad situation and refused to warn others afraid it would be at the expense of the players already there. Thats the kind of situation promoting crappy books puts you in as you are aware.

TOW didn't warn that player or any players who deposited in the last couple weeks and was handing out "Speedy Payout Awards".

Adding:
When a player contacts us, especially if it is only one player, our first priority is getting THAT player his money which is why you may see downgrades wihout a wire. However, when 3 players contact us and two want to share, that third player has to accept the fact that he is in a bad situation that is public.

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:13 PM

Dozer- Let's make a bet on that. You are wrong again as usual. You got late word on this.

**natrass** · 12-30-05, 11:13 PM

The betonsports thing has maybe been silly (if they are cash solvent). The RCS thing ... well, you can't expect the company itself to spread panic .. no company would ... you get it every day even with blue chip companies trying to supress bad quarterlies, etc ... you can't expect a company to not be protective.

However, this has a bad smell of panic written all over it. Its as though they have waited and waited until they need to to face an almost crisis situation. In UK law, directors can be sent to jail if they trade frauduently ,,, and one definition of that is to carry on incurring debt when a "prudent" person would believe you wont, in all probability, be able to pay your creditors. That is deemed fraudulent (eg ordering more stock when you have zero ability to pay for it or taking players money when you have no funds to pay already accumulated debts).

This is what RCS and others may have done. If punters have to swallow any rollover then they indeed have.

So, from a books perspective, it would be preferable to keep things quiet and only tell when you absolutely have to.

From a players perspective, for the reasons above, knowledge is king and so I would say the watchdog sites have indeed done the right thing.

At the end of the day, all RCS has done has been in its own best interests. Players need protection from this I feel.

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:14 PM

You just talked to Tony for the first time today. TOW will let you know what happened later. I'm not a rat.

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:17 PM

Hal keep in mind we did not know BM was going down. We knew they were for sale and speculated they were in trouble. We downgraded them and thats about all you can do without direct knowledge. We would handle that situation exactly the same. There is a huge difference in an educated guess and knowing.

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:19 PM

John- You told us that a book was going down but you aren't going to disclose the book. When it went belly up you said that you knew it all along. Thanks for filling the players in.

**TOW** · 12-30-05, 11:20 PM

Dang ! John, its more appropriate to say that you had promised not to reveal the name of the book (Blue Marlin) in exchange for reliable info, which you indeed received.

It was between me and you, recall

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:21 PM

In UK law, directors can be sent to jail if they trade frauduently ,,, and one definition of that is to carry on incurring debt when a "prudent" person would believe you wont, in all probability, be able to pay your creditors.

Thats a good point. They kept merrily taking deposits even after they were done.

**Bill Dozer** · 12-30-05, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

You just talked to Tony for the first time today. TOW will let you know what happened later. I'm not a rat.

yea huh? lol, I am psychic?

12.27.2005 (12:29 PM CST)
SBR Bill Dozer reports: BookTheBet(SBR rating D-) owner, Tony Block, tells SBR he is "bailing out" RichCoastSports(SBR rating D). Mr. Block states that RichCoast is currently migrating to his office in Escazu and players will be informed of new wagering requirements on their balances today via email.

Tony has called SBR many times going back to when you and Roberto were accusing him of being with Marty Kidd.

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:24 PM

I recall well. Reggie was trying to sell you BM. And? SBR took appropriate action and downgraded them. That situation comes up regualry.

**TOW** · 12-30-05, 11:26 PM

Well well..I still have reggie's email, the one I forwarded to you. He was openly stating he was desperate, he had half a mil in liabilites, 25K in the bank and no one to sell to....

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:26 PM

raiders were you even born when BM went down? LOL

Are you involved in RichCoast Sports somehow?

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:26 PM

It was between me and you, recall

Looks like Roberto told you something in confidence and AK claimed that he told you something too. You're a RAT in my book if true.

**tacomax** · 12-30-05, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

John- You told us that a book was going down but you aren't going to disclose the book. When it went belly up you said that you knew it all along. Thanks for filling the players in.

Ah, bless. It would be touching to know that you care so much about the player were it not for the fact that you knew about the financial troubles at PTS two weeks before they went belly up. And what did you do in those 2 weeks? Fill in the players?

Nope, you just made sure you were the first in line to get your balance out. Unlike the rest of the players, some of which haven't seen a penny of that money to date.

Most of the book's post up clientele had been built by an internet tout known as "Raiders". This gentleman relentlessly touted PTS as "the eight wonder" of the gaming industry.

The tout later admitted that he had been aware of the status of financial distress for at least two weeks prior to PTS becoming officially insolvent on June 22nd. He also admitted his vested interest in the operation and his attempts to be first in line to collect his own earnings from the failed operation.

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:27 PM

roberto, and? we downgraded them. Did you downgrade RichCoast when you found they were broke?

**raiders72001** · 12-30-05, 11:28 PM

John- Why did you hide information the last time but feel the need to disclose info on RCS that you received in confidence?

**TOW** · 12-30-05, 11:31 PM

Hold your horses John. Have a good night sleep. Tomorrow, after my third cup of coffee I will start putting down the chain of events of this short crisis.

My young friend Bill seems to lack a substantial chunk of info..

Oh...you recall you had BM on wait list for the recommended list 5 days before they folded ?

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:32 PM

Oh you cant say now if you downgraded them as soon as you found out they were broke?

**RPM** · 12-30-05, 11:33 PM

he doesnt lack info. he knew exactly what he was saying. and EVERYTHING is coming out tomorrow.

this whole deal makes me SICK!

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:37 PM

I'll help you, save you time:

1.Took on broke book as an advertiser, made good cashola.
2. Stinking book went broke, couldnt even make it to the frigging superbowl
3. Wasnt much cash so I worked some side deals to save the (c)rookie project..err...I mean RichCoast
4. Then I started figuring out who I could blame and tried that
5. Now I will present my BS tomorrow and hope I can save the (cr)rooky Project. Raiders and AK and RPM will help.(phew! bs'd my way out of that pickle)

**TOW** · 12-30-05, 11:37 PM

John ....you sound like a novice to the industry when you say these kind of things.....

Lets say this..beginning 2004...I could have said "BJM is BROKE!" ....damn..they lost over a mil their first year...every new venture, in any industry, is in red the first year. This is not being broke, its called start up losses. Now, going back to BJM...Spiro didn't suffer a heart attack so BJM could continue to benefit from his financing partner.

But again on the BJM example.....I could have said BJM is broke mentioning their start up losses....just a negative spin to a normal situation with every newer company. Likely BJM would have incurred in a lot of withdrawals, up to the point that Spiro might have even said ...FVCK it...I pull the plug.

If you think this way of managing information is responsible...so be it.

**RPM** · 12-30-05, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

I'll help you, save you time:

1.Took on broke book as an advertiser, made good cashola.
2. Stinking book went broke, couldnt even make it to the frigging superbowl
3. Wasnt much cash so I worked some side deals to save the (c)rookie project..err...I mean RichCoast
4. Then I started figuring out who I could blame and tried that
5. Now I will present my BS tomorrow and hope I can save the (cr)rooky Project. Raiders and AK and RPM will help.(phew! bs'd my way out of that pickle)

john,

nice try but i dont need bullshit or spin like what you are trying to do tonight. i dont know if you were part of all this or not, but i know i have ALL THE FACTS and if you really don't know what's up, then you are going to be PISSED tomorrow.

If you do know all the facts already, then you sir, are a scumbag.

and anyone who knows me, knows i dont do a lot of name calling, so for me to say that.....

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:42 PM

No. I think like everyone else: you should stop promoting these dangerous books. ALL the rest is just a diversion. be a man and take your medicine. You rolled out RichCoast not Bill not Sting, not me YOU. Quit pointing fingers and take a good look in the mirror.

**SBR_John** · 12-30-05, 11:45 PM

rpm - grow up or better yet... get lost. You guys are spinning and playing games trying desperately to save face. Be men. People have money to lose and all you are worried about is saving face.

**RPM** · 12-30-05, 11:45 PM

i did promote rich coast. and i would do so again in a heart beat.

and tomorrow everyone will know why.

for now i'm going to bed. Work hard on your spin tonight. you will need it tomorrow.

JC · 12-30-05, 11:46 PM

What lesson did we get?

The unfortunate answer for most is not a thing.

The sad thing is there is nothing new here, all of this could have been avoided. There are two parts to this, the failure and how it was handled.

RCS failed because they were undercapitalized and giving away the store. Giving away the store is hard enough in a good football season let alone one like all the books have just been through. So two old lessons there, nothing new.

(I believe the guy did have a heart attack and I am sorry, but if it was a well capitalized organization it wouldn't have made a difference, even if it was being sold.)

Part two, communication with the players. First it was technical difficulties, then being sold, then nobody knew. Clerks were answering the phones, then they weren't, different stories everytime. An announcement is imminent, then it's tomorrow, then it's the day after tomorrow. I could go on and on. Be open and honest, not a new lesson there either.

The lesson of the bigger picture that many will fail to learn. Stop playing at glorified wire rooms with turn key software. Most of these places are insolvent, meaning they can not pay out all of their players tomorrow. This unfortunately is by design, they plan to operate off of customer deposits. Legitimate businesses do not operate in that fashion. Add in the fact that many of these places are operating at a negative theoretical edge or close to zero and you have the recipe for a disaster. It's no trick selling dollar bills for 90 cents. Nothing new there either.

The final lesson to the "watchdogs" is, if you are going to take on these unknown operations, (which I don't think you should), do more than play golf with them and dine out. Look at their books, including their customer records and their bank accounts. Not the bank accounts of the "backers" but of the businesses. If they don't have enough money to cover all of the deposits and then some, move on. Once again, nothing new.

Reminds me of an old Calvin and Hobbes strip, "Live and don't learn, that's us."

In a few months or weeks, we will see the same mistakes made, sadly by some of the same cast of characters.

**TOW** · 12-30-05, 11:48 PM

Well, let me say what this situation teaches. The entire industry that lives and prospers outside of the U.K. or Australia is subject to the weakness imposed by the semi clandestine nature of the beast.

The US does not bless, rather prosecutes those citizens that invest or manage sports books. This means that the vast majority of offshore operation is subject to the risk of collapse if a financing party is taken out of the picture for whatever reason.

JC · 12-30-05, 11:50 PM

It's amazing. I can't believe the amount of irrelevant finger pointing that went since I started typing my last post and when I hit submit.

Can't you people stay on topic? You should all work in politics. Change the subject and attack.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.

**RPM** · 12-30-05, 11:52 PM

jc,

i respect you more than you could know, but when the facts come to light tomorrow, you will understand my posts, and my pm's to you...

JC · 12-30-05, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by TOW

This means that the vast majority of offshore operation is subject to the risk of collapse if a financing party is taken out of the picture for whatever reason.

This is where you have it all wrong. Legitimate companies do not rely on the good graces of one of their owners or financing parties to cover customer deposits.

A well run company starts with money in the bank, takes in customer deposits, and operates. If things go south and they burn through their operating capital, they raise more money through equity dilution or selling debt. They do this BEFORE they have dipped into customer funds.

This scenario where some owner controls all of the money as opposed to the company itself has got to end.

JC · 12-30-05, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by RPM

jc,

i respect you more than you could know, but when the facts come to light tomorrow, you will understand my posts, and my pm's to you...

I look forward to it.

But, even if they are not broke, you have to admit that there has been a serious breakdown in communication. And whether you want to admit it or not there are people who have not had access to their funds for several days now.

I too have heard that this will all work out. That's great!

There was probably not a lot of money involved and it may be a chance for some second tier book to look like a hero for a relatively cheap price. In a way, RCS players may end up being lucky to be the first minor catastrophe of the year. After two or three of these, it will get harder and harder to find places to pick up the pieces.