nolan arenado will be by the time he retires
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Mike SchmidtComment -
Deadball? Not buying that.
Great discussion on it here
The 70s and 80s (sans 81 strike) get a bad rap, but HR production and runs per game in line w rest of decades except the widely accepted 1963-1968 period when there was a heightened mound
you think the HR rates in Schmidt's years were in line with Beltres?
i'm not sure why you link something comparing just the HR leader from decades that don't include Beltre's playing era? that is talking about 60s,70s, and 80's
In Beltre's years the HR per team per game rate was basically exactly 1 HR per game 1.002
In Schimdit's years the HR per team per game rate was .77 HR per game
Beltre's era was a 23% higher home run rate, its not even close. It works out to 3806 more HR's a year in the league (standardizing for # of teams) But the eye test can tell you that. In Schmidt's era a guy there were years the league leader didn't hit more than 35 HR's In Beltre's era 50 Hr's was a thing, hell 60+ hr's was a thing in his era.
Again Schmidt is arguably a top 2-3 all time Power hitter against his era. Here is the list of times a dude led the league in HR's. How many times did Beltre do that?
it's a silly argument to say a very good longevity guy > a top 20 all time player at any position
Times Leading League in Hr's
1. Ruth 12
2. Schmidt 8
3. Kiner 7
4. Cravath 6
5. Killibrew 6
6. Ott 6
7. Rodriguez 5
8. Stovey 5Last edited by Chi_archie; 02-24-20, 09:37 AM.Comment -
Brooks,chipper,Schmidt,nettles,Scott Rolen,Brett,Ed Mathews and arodComment -
Hard to argue against Chipper as top 3Comment -
MVP share (my go-to for any argument now.. modern players only)... says.
schmidt dominant #1
brett comfortable #2
beltre distant #3 (i believe that's correct)... EDIT: oops, brooks robinson is actually 2nd, a little ahead of brett. and brett/beltre move down 1 spot.
fyi, schmidt, brooks, brett are #12, #19, #25 overall... #19 seems high for robinson..... 3rd base seems like underrated position. hard defensively and a good way to get another fairly big bat in the lineup.
they really need to back and do phantom MVP votes for old seasons..... barry bonds leads in MVP share at 7.9. scholars think babe ruth might have won 11 MVP's. even if you go 9 MVP's for Ruth, he probably finishes 2nd in those other 2 seasons...Comment -
chipper and beltre are effectively tied on the MVP share. i did miss chipper on my scanning of page.Comment -
I like MVP shares as well
It can be weird at times for very good but not great players that had a super long careerComment -
Michael Jack SchmidtComment -
best hitter: George Brett...
3 batting titles in 3 different decades.
took a .400 BA into late September in 1980...ended up w/a 390 BA
clutch hitting in playoffs
best fielder: Brooks Robinson...
16 consecutive gold gloves!Comment -
There's only one right answer and his name is Chipper penetrating Jones.
Why Chipper is undeniably the GOAT at 3rd Base.
1. Number 1 OPS all-time at 3rd with a massive .930. Schmidt has a .908, then Brett and Boggs at .858 and .857, Beltre at .819.
2. 8 straight seasons of 100+ RBI with 7/8 seasons batting over .300, .295 was his worst BA during that span. This stretch has never been matched in history by a 3b.
3. 14 straight seasons of 20+ HR. Incredible longevity. Mike Schmidt also had 14 straight 20+ Hr seasons, with 13 of the 14 being 30+ homer seasons which is truly remarkable.
4. Chipper Jones had 5 seasons of 1.000+ OPS, Mike Schmidt is the only one close with 2 1.000+ OPS seasons. Chipper Jones has a higher career OPS than Albert Pujols, and he could be passing Miguel Cabrera's .930 as it dips. That's how good this guy was.
5. Strikeouts, Chipper Jones never struck out 100 times in a season which is an unbelievable accomplishment, in comparison Mike Schmidt struck out over 100 times 12 times in his career and led the league in strikeouts 4 times in his career. Chipper was a more reliable hitter.
6. Switch-hitter. Enough said.
7. Number 1 in RBI and Runs among 3rd baseman
Schmidt has HR's, the accolades of 3 MVPs, World series MVP, all the gold gloves. But the reality is he had a .690 OPS in the postseason which a shit .234 BA and .300 OBP to Chipper's .287/.409 and excellent .864 OPS in 20 series. Better regular season hitter and better post-season hitter, numbers don't lie.Comment -
Kobe BryantComment -
Schmidt was the first thing that came to mindComment -
There's more to baseball than the home run
There were just as many players capable of hitting 40+ hrs/ year in Schmidt era, however teams were constructed differently and so were parks
You didn't see 2b, ss, cf, c hitting bombs, the mlb level transitioned to a defense mode w those positions as large multi use stadiums became the norm an emphasis was put on scoring runs w speed and defense.
It was the same baseball, similar runs per game, just less HR because 5 positions in the BO were occupied with guys like Ozzie Smith, Willie McGee, Wally Backman and Mike Sochia instead of Alex Rodriguez, Alphonso Sorriano, Mike Trout or Mike Piazza...and no DH till late 70s.
I played ball in early 00s with guys like Darrell Robinson who hit 40 hrs in aaa and didnt get the call and Mitch Zwolinsky who was the ACE of the aaa cubs rotation that included Moyer AND Maddux and Darren Knight the all time KO leader at UofM. They all say the same thing, the systems of the 70s and 80s had just as many big boppers as today, the clubs just prefered to play the game more conservatively....but there was still 4.5 runs per game
Again, nothing against Schmidt, he was great, but if I'm building a team and have to draft a 3b I personally take Beltre for the 15 consistent years of .290/30/30/90. The fact he didn't KO much means a ton when looking at options such as moving guys over, hit and run, forcing other team to did into the pen and field a ball in play, etc.
Also I never thought Chipper was better than Beltre, he got the benefit of playing on a stacked team for 20 years in a weak league w the best pitching on his team.Comment -
Michael Jack Schmidt
Brooks Robinson
1A and 1B however you want to sort them outComment -
Ron CeyComment -
Clayton KershawComment -
Mike Schmidt.Comment -
chris saboComment -
Yes, Runs
it's interesting that a big part of your argument before was that Schmidt didn't hit enough doubles compared to Beltre. but now that we established Schmidt had more extra base hits per year and of of the better (triple/HR) variety. XBH's don't matter as much now apparently.
but it really comes down to runs Produced
per year
Beltre 94 Rbi and 84 Runs
Schmidt 107 Rbi and 101 Runs in an era where runs were down about 7%
it's a no brainerComment -
As most of you know by now I'm heavy into analytics but this is a topic where I dismiss them.
The question is "who's the best third baseman of all time"?
Not who's the best fielding third baseman of all time?
If it was the answer would be Brooks Robinson hands down.
But it isn't.
Brooks Robinson was not nearly the hitter Schmidt or Nettles or Chipper Jones was but he was better than most give him credit for.
He holds pretty much every defensive 3B record in the books, that's not arguable, but he did hit .267 for about 1/4 of a century and did hit 20 or more HR's in six different seasons in a pitchers baseball era. But Earl Weaver did not need offense from Belanger or Brooks.
The question is who's the greatest 3B of all time.
Jones hit for a higher average, Schmidt hit for more power.
I'm dismissing Nettles in this argument because I feel he was a poor man's Mike Schmidt.
I still believe all things considered even though Jones did hit for a better average he didn't play a full season for almost the last decade of his career he wasn't quite the complete all around 3B that Schmidt was.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that Schmidt did win nine consecutive gold gloves and ten all told.Comment -
Chipper over Beltre?
Only difference between the 2 is Chipper has a slightly higher average whereas Beltre as the career advantage in all the other stats, and higher WARComment -
Bad road splits.
I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ Home 515 506 2188 1973 373 640 144 21 129 446 7 6 179 303 0.324 0.38 0.615 0.995 1213 65 12 0 23 31 17 0.327 121 Away 516 509 2169 1963 253 520 109 6 98 288 9 9 168 361 0.265 0.323 0.476 0.799 935 49 10 5 23 24 20 0.276 79 Comment
