[RudyRuetigger]

Disney and the Seminoles tricked voters. thanks

It actually makes it more difficult now.



Read this one first:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...aming-industry



Now this one:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/07/disn...amendment.html



To be honest I'm not sure if this would affect the expansion of sports betting to existing casinos, but I'm almost positive Disney will fight that too.

i barely have the attention span to read your post

what are the cliff notes archie?

[Hman]

i barely have the attention span to read your post

what are the cliff notes archie?

Disney and Seminole casinos were/are against gambling expansion in the state, for both of their obvious respectful reasons.

So they pushed the support of Amendment 3 on the voters ballot, which gives voters the power to push expansion through, instead of the state's courts.

Voters took that as a compliment.

But the truth is the numbers say it's more difficult to get 60% in favor of such, vs Florida politicians simply doing as they wish.

Disney and Seminole Casinos were very sneaky and crooked with all of this in tricking voters.

If you read link #1 it explains them pushing it before the vote.

In link #2 it explains how it's a victory for those two.

[CarolinaDaze]

Double edged sword. Got enough fuks clogging the roads down here as it is. Price we pay to live in paradise

This

[bonzaii]

Shit is so easy to pass. Put someone like me in office and Ill have it legalized in less than a week. Politicians are pathetic.

[Optional]

Disney and Seminole casinos were/are against gambling expansion in the state, for both of their obvious respectful reasons.

So they pushed the support of Amendment 3 on the voters ballot, which gives voters the power to push expansion through, instead of the state's courts.

Voters took that as a compliment.

But the truth is the numbers say it's more difficult to get 60% in favor of such, vs Florida politicians simply doing as they wish.

Disney and Seminole Casinos were very sneaky and crooked with all of this in tricking voters.

If you read link #1 it explains them pushing it before the vote.

In link #2 it explains how it's a victory for those two.

I doubt they would be moving forward so fast suddenly, and wasting the time on it at all, if a deal had not already been done with the Seminoles.

[MinnesotaFats]

Sucks they banned dog racing. I love hitting the dog track

Naples group tearing down track here anyway to build giant poker center- prepping for sportsbook

Dog racing dead anyway

[firedawg]

Dog racing been dead for years


Tracks ghost Towns

[Shute]

Too much traffic
Too hot in the summer
Too many old people
Too many murders
No thanks

[Miz]

derby lane has a decent crowd still. They still handle 300k a night. West palm handle is bigger than many horse tracks. Last time i hit naples track on a friday or sat night and it was boomin. Their handle is much lower though overall. I gotta drive up to jax soon.

races every 15 min, much better than tampa bay downs. 45 min between races

[Hman]

I doubt they would be moving forward so fast suddenly, and wasting the time on it at all, if a deal had not already been done with the Seminoles.

This could be the case Opti

But also where Disney & Seminoles who were once allies in all of this, will be on opposite sides.

No way ever ever ever Disney gives in to gambling expansion easily.

It's all about the $

[floridagolfer]

The Florida Legislature is the most inept group of politicians in the history of the universe. I'll believe this when I see it; there's no way it has the ability to do this correctly.

[jjgold]

The dog tracks probably be replaced with Sportsbooks in about a year and half

Too many states are going to have it so they have to be competitive

[Sam Odom]

can hardly wait... may spend last days in Wewahitchka, Florida. Fishing on Dead Lakes

[tblues2005]

This would be great there.

[firedawg]

The dog tracks probably be replaced with Sportsbooks in about a year and half

Too many states are going to have it so they have to be competitive

Dog tracks already converted to poker rooms in some areas

[VegasStacker34]

I doubt they would be moving forward so fast suddenly, and wasting the time on it at all, if a deal had not already been done with the Seminoles.

Totally agree. They aren’t putting a bill together if the seminoles aren’t on board. They aren’t doing this for show.

[VegasStacker34]

The Florida Legislature is the most inept group of politicians in the history of the universe. I'll believe this when I see it; there's no way it has the ability to do this correctly.

I’d probably lay my money on NJ or Illinois as a big fav.

[Hman]

Well if they have a deal ahead of time solely with the Seminoles, that's probably a negative because books would probably be limited to their few locations.

[Optional]

Well if they have a deal ahead of time solely with the Seminoles, that's probably a negative because books would probably be limited to their few locations.

Lower their tax rate, let them have more slots and tables, something like that would be the buy off at a guess. Maybe a skim of the state taxes for a few years even.

The positive talk suddenly, after many people have said here FLA will never get it in recent months, just smells of backroom deal done to me.


Can Disney really do anything without the tribe to use to block legal changes?

[ronald]

Lower their tax rate, let them have more slots and tables, something like that would be the buy off at a guess. Maybe a skim of the state taxes for a few years even.

The positive talk suddenly, after many people have said here FLA will never get it in recent months, just smells of backroom deal done to me.


Can Disney really do anything without the tribe to use to block legal changes?

It all sounds quite doggy.

[Hman]

Lower their tax rate, let them have more slots and tables, something like that would be the buy off at a guess. Maybe a skim of the state taxes for a few years even.

The positive talk suddenly, after many people have said here FLA will never get it in recent months, just smells of backroom deal done to me.


Can Disney really do anything without the tribe to use to block legal changes?

Yes they definitely want more tables.

So leverage is there for both sides.

But it really doesn't matter what the two sides agree on because in the end it has to go through the voters.

And just like with Amendment 3 in which Disney helped sway voters (Tricked them actually), they will do all they can to get them to vote their way again.

They are very, very powerful.

If that hadn't of passed, then it would be much easier.

Like you said though Opti maybe stage 1 is already a done deal.

[jjgold]

I would think in 10 years at least 60% of states will have it

[gauchojake]

Siesta key
Long boat key
Right up the road
Both unbelievable

In siesta key

It's ok

[stevek173]

Oh nice

I am recruiting a ton of drivers out there

When this happens I will can into Gaucho's basement

[eaglesfan371]

I really don’t understand why in Florida the politicians are cucks to the Seminoles. Do they have a single ounce of backbone.

[stevek173]

18 year olds can play poker in Florida.

Bet there's a lot of hotshots out there fresh off the internet thinking they have everyone outsmarted.

Mark Ari swears by Magic City, and I believe him.

It's been a thought.

[eaglesfan371]

18 year olds can play poker in Florida.

Bet there's a lot of hotshots out there fresh off the internet thinking they have everyone outsmarted.

Mark Ari swears by Magic City, and I believe him.

It's been a thought.

You and everyone has had these thoughts. It’s become a very nit infested game. Certain parts like Hollywood, FL could be still good with many locations but spots like Tampa are nit fests.

Look up reviews / gather insight on twoplustwo forum if you actually consider moving somewhere for poker.

[stevek173]

Word.

[allabout the $$$]

Florida can't even get a damn craps game

[Hman]

Florida, the Seminole Tribe, and a still-contentious gambling deal
Dara KamNews Service of Florida
4/17/19



A proposed gambling agreement between the state and the Seminole Tribe might be a long shot, but the legal wrangling has already begun.

As Sen. Wilton Simpson and tribal representatives negotiate a new pact, backers of a constitutional amendment that requires voters to authorize gambling expansions are putting legislators on notice about a potential legal fight over sports betting and controversial “designated player” card games.

The constitutional amendment, approved in November, “requires a vote by citizens initiative” for “casino gambling” to be authorized in Florida. “Casino gambling” is defined as “any of the type of games typically found in casinos” and that are defined as “Class III gaming” under federal law. Class III games include slot machines, blackjack, craps and roulette — and sports betting.

Simpson, a Trilby Republican who is slated to become Senate president after the 2020 elections, has been negotiating with the Seminole Tribe on a new gambling deal that could lead to additional revenue for the state. A deal would have to be approved by lawmakers before the annual legislative session ends May 3.

Sources told The News Service of Florida this week that one of the elements of a potential deal could allow sports betting at the state’s pari-mutuel facilities — dog tracks, horse tracks and jai alai frontons — as well as at professional sports arenas. Under one scenario, the Seminoles could act as a “hub” for sports betting, which is on the table after a U.S. Supreme Court decision last May opened the door for states to authorize the popular activity.

In a letter Tuesday to Senate President Bill Galvano and House Speaker José Oliva,a lawyer representing backers of the amendment argued that allowing sports betting anywhere other than at tribal casinos would require voter approval. The same goes for popular designated player card games, now being offered at numerous pari-mutuel cardrooms throughout the state, according to the attorney, former appellate judge Paul Hawkes.

Sports betting meets requirements for voter approval under the amendment, according to Hawkes, because it is a “Class III game” and it is typically found in casinos.

“Before sports betting can be legalized in Florida, it must be authorized by a citizen initiative,” he wrote in Tuesday’s 16-page missive to the legislative leaders.
Galvano, a Bradenton Republican who was instrumental in negotiating and crafting a 2010 agreement with the Seminoles, has said he wants to address sports betting, a potential source of revenue for the state. Galvano’s spokeswoman said the Senate president is reviewing the letter but was not prepared to comment Tuesday.

Galvano previously has relied on a legal opinion by Daniel Wallach, a Broward County-based gambling lawyer who is a national expert on sports betting. Wallach argues that sports betting in Florida does not require voter approval.

The language of the constitutional amendment, which says “any type of games typically found in casinos,” rules out sports betting, because only a handful of casinos offered sports betting when 71 percent of voters approved the proposed amendment in November, Wallach said Tuesday in a telephone interview with the News Service.

But Hawkes argued that, at the time the amendment passed, sports betting was prohibited in most states.

“The proper inquiry is, where would a Florida voter expect to find lawful sports betting in November of 2018? Consequently, it is not a test of counting how many casinos offered sports betting, but it is really a test of venue,” he wrote. “It may not have been found often, but when legal sports betting was found, it was ‘typically’ found at casinos at the time Florida voters adopted Amendment 3.”

But Wallach accused Hawkes of trying to “white out the two most essential words in the definition,” referring to “typically found.”

“Their tortured interpretation does not hold up under any reasonable statutory interpretation,” Wallach said.

Only six of the 40 states that had casino gambling at the time the amendment passed allowed sports betting, Wallach said. And only three of more than 500 tribal casinos throughout the nation offered the gambling activity in November, according to Wallach.

“There’s nothing ‘typical’ about sports betting being found in a casino as of November 2018,” he said. “Clearly the Amendment 3 proponents will stop at nothing to try to twist and contort the plain words of the constitutional provision. The plain fact of the matter is the words are the words. They cannot be excised out of the Constitution.”

Hawkes also addressed controversial designated player games, which are at the heart of a lengthy legal dispute between the state and the Seminoles and would be a key element of any new deal. The Seminoles — and a federal judge — have maintained that the card games violate the 2010 gambling agreement with the state that gave the tribe “exclusivity” over offering banked card games, such as blackjack.

In the letter, Hawkes cited a state rule governing designated player games, which critics say improperly allow a player to serve as the “bank” or the “house.”

“Under this rule, the house decides who may serve as a designated player, sets the conditions, and defines the terms. For all practical purposes the house controls the bank,” Hawkes wrote, pointing to a decision by U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle, who sided with the tribe in a case centered on whether the designated player games violated the tribe’s exclusivity over banked card games. “Beyond dispute, banked games are illegal in Florida.”

Because no state law authorizes pari-mutuel cardrooms to conduct banked card games and because the activity falls within the definition in the amendment, “a citizen initiative would have to be adopted before the games could be authorized,” he wrote.

But John Lockwood, a lawyer who represents many of the state’s pari-mutuel cardrooms, disputed Hawkes’ analysis.

“Two different administrative law judges have concluded the games can lawfully be operated in the state of Florida. Any assertion otherwise is just absurd,” Lockwood told the News Service.

Hinkle’s ruling about the designated player games “is a contract case between the state and the Seminoles and has nothing to do with whether or not these games are operated in conformance with Florida law,” Lockwood said.

Hawkes’ legal analysis also addressed a third and equally controversial issue: whether pari-mutuels that are allowed to have slot machines can relocate their facilities.

According to Hawkes, that would require voter approval because a 2004 constitutional amendment authorized slots at pari-mutuels in Miami-Dade and Broward counties only at “existing, licensed pari-mutuel facilities.”

“This phrase is unambiguous, and the relevant noun is ‘facilities,’ not permit holders. Thus, the slot machines are tied, directly, to the location and not to license holders,” Hawkes wrote.

But Lockwood said the constitutional amendment is “game-specific, not location-specific.”

Lockwood said that means there’s nothing in the constitutional amendment that would prevent legislators from authorizing slot machines in the eight counties — Brevard, Duval, Gadsden, Hamilton, Lee, Palm Beach, St. Lucie and Washington — where voters have approved the machines in referendums.

“The Florida voters have already approved slot machines by citizens initiative, therefore the Legislature is free to authorize those games throughout Florida as they see fit,” Lockwood said.

[capitalist pig]

As a FL resident I’m sure the legislature in Tallahassee will fuk up anything and everything that they get their hands on. Even with the voters choice of medical weed here it’s been a back and forth cluster fuk for the patients. So I would expect nothing less with sports wagering even if it got the citizens votes which I seriously doubt they would get. I have not heard one thing about anyone even trying to get sports wagering on a ballot or any talk of it at all on the news here JMO

later

[frankthetank]

Indian Casinos and Disney tricked voters like Hman said. There will be no sports betting in the very near future. State is still loaded conservative old white people.

You can bet sports on the casino cruises though. One time, years ago, they had a kid with a printed sheet of lines from hours earlier manning the tiny sportsbook desk. I had to smash a few of the weak lines. Who wouldn't? Went on to lose it at the BJ table anyway. Break even day.

[eaglesfan371]

Indian Casinos and Disney tricked voters like Hman said. There will be no sports betting in the very near future. State is still loaded conservative old white people.

You can bet sports on the casino cruises though. One time, years ago, they had a kid with a printed sheet of lines from hours earlier manning the tiny sportsbook desk. I had to smash a few of the weak lines. Who wouldn't? Went on to lose it at the BJ table anyway. Break even day.

Frank, what were the limits on those cruise sportsbooks? Were the lines standard -110/-110 or badly juiced? Would appreciate input, have thought about taking a trip down there for poker and a possible evening cruise if I can bet sports.

[frankthetank]

This was a solid 7 years ago and word is that they leased the sportsbook position to a local business owner at that time. I went back a few years ago and they had sports betting kiosks where you feed money into the machine, bet the game at -110 and it prints a ticket. The lines are updated from the web and accurate. I didn't see any limits but I placed $330 bets no problem. The casino cruise left out of Cape Canaveral and once they got five miles out or whatever, people could then begin placing bets. I think it stays out at 5 hours a clip. Texas Hold Em tournament on top deck and bottom floor is card games. Slot machines on the middle decks. 3 Card Poker seemed to be the most popular game. Hope this info helps. Oh, I think the cruise is 15 bucks and the buffet was 10 bucks.

[Brooklyn Dick]

This right here is why this will move faster than people think.

When voters in Florida took to the polls last November, they signed off on the Voter Control of Gambling amendment, which puts the power over the industry squarely in the hands of the electorate.

This was a scam by anti-gambling. Now that this is in the hands of the voters it can never happen. The reason is they need 75% of the votes to get gambling. Yes, 75%. Never happen. But this was for casino gambling, so sportsbook may be different. And Disney supported this move..........