Man, if you own California Bonds, you are fukked

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  • statnerds
    SBR MVP
    • 09-23-09
    • 4047

    #1
    Man, if you own California Bonds, you are fukked
    well, maybe not yet. but you had better be nervous. gotta love when government and union mixes togehter

    State pension shortfall totals $535 billion

    By Troy Anderson, Staff Writer
    Updated: 04/05/2010 07:36:50 PM PDT


    California's public retirement plans are underfunded by more than a half trillion dollars, equal to about $36,000 per household and far exceeding previous estimates, according to a report released today by Stanford University.
    In the policy brief, the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research warns $360 billion would have to be injected into pension and health care benefit systems immediately just to have an 80 percent chance of meeting 80 percent of the obligations in 16 years.
    The report also predicts there is a 44 percent chance the California Public Employees Retirement System (CalPERS) alone will have a shortfall of more than $250 billion over the next 16 years.
    Joe Nation, co-author of the report and director of the graduate student practicum in public policy at Stanford, said the magnitude of the shortfall is much greater than what many economists had expected.
    "It is such a gargantuan number," Nation said. "If you have a state budget general fund of $85 billion, and you are short a half a trillion dollars, it's going to be very tough to make up that shortfall."
    In recent years, California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility, which has spearheaded several pension reform measures, has estimated the shortfall for government pensions and health care benefits

    is about $300 billion. But foundation President Marcia Fritz said Stanford's estimate is probably more accurate because elected officials have boosted benefits while underfunding the systems for decades.
    Fritz said the $535 billion shortfall estimated by the Stanford report means every household in the state is on the hook for about $36,000.
    "That's how much they owe to government workers for their retirement benefits," Fritz said.
    "It's not like they will have to send a check to pay for it. But they will see it in higher classroom sizes, roads that aren't repaired, parks that are closed, fewer policemen, far fewer firefighters and government offices that are probably going to be closed even more than we are seeing today."
    Representatives from CalPERS and the California State Teachers' Retirement System (CalSTRS) did not return calls for comment.
    Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, said he isn't surprised by Stanford's estimate.
    "This is the ticking time bomb that fiscal conservatives have been identifying for a decade now," Coupal said. "As soon as (former Gov.) Gray Davis granted those enhanced pension benefits, we've been like the Cassandra who warns everybody, but whose words are not heeded.
    "And still, even right now, the Legislature is returning from its Easter break and they should change the rules by statute today. But they won't because there are too many powerful special interests invested in the status quo."
    In the brief, Nation and five of his graduate students wrote that the CalPERS, CalSTRS and the University of California Retirement System had an adjusted funding shortfall of $425 billion in July 1, 2008. Since then, the funds have lost an additional $110 billion in value.
    "The study found that previously published figures about California's pensions really don't tell the truth of the story of how underfunded the pension systems are now," said Cameron Percy, a Stanford graduate student and co-author of the report.
    As a way to begin addressing the shortfall, the authors recommend elected officials take several steps, including steady contributions, rather than the erratic ones some funds have chosen; managing assets in a way that limits volatility; and setting sustainable benefit levels through a hybrid 401k/defined benefit plan.
    "As pensions take up a larger and larger share of the general fund, that means there will be less money for everything else," Nation said. "Everything else will be squeezed out. If you care about higher education, the outlook is grim. If you want more money for environmental protection, it will be tougher because of these pension pressures.
    "These pension obligations will squeeze out all these other things that people care about."
  • MartinBlank
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 07-20-08
    • 8382

    #2
    And who would be buying California bonds?

    I mean, this isn't exactly "news" that California is broke.

    They have been broke for a very long time.
    Comment
    • Chi_archie
      SBR Aristocracy
      • 07-22-08
      • 63172

      #3
      do they sell Michigan bonds?
      Comment
      • Boner_18
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 08-24-08
        • 8301

        #4
        Yeah Michigan raises money via debt obligations, all states do. However, if you live in IL the interest payments (or amortization of the OID) might not be tax deductible on you state income taxes. New York only exempts New York muni's.
        Comment
        • MilfDriller
          Restricted User
          • 11-23-08
          • 10186

          #5
          California will become Mexico pretty soon. The great thing about California is that if you own a bar-installing business (for restaurants, houses, shops, etc), your business will prosper.
          Comment
          • GELATINOUS CUBE
            SBR MVP
            • 08-09-09
            • 4534

            #6
            Who cares about other stuff besides pensions. I guess cal will have less brand new toll roads.

            But maybe they could fire all the administrators who work at the state buildings and school district, and keep all the teachers, cops, and firemen. That would save a lot.

            But they should keep like 1 lady at each office, to answer the occasional phone call and hand out checks.
            blog '09-'10: 37-16: +$31,900
            mlb 2010; 16-12: +$4,540
            gellyhoops 2010: 10-6 +$3,150
            overall: 63-34 +$40,290
            Comment
            • Facepunch
              SBR MVP
              • 11-17-09
              • 2090

              #7
              I thought that Bonds got paid before all else, including Pensions etc?
              Comment
              • Boner_18
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 08-24-08
                • 8301

                #8
                Yeah FP, I bet they do. Everything else is generally subordinate to the senior debt, here the muni's. However, that doesn't mean that the risk of default on those bonds wont force a workout or other modification on the terms of that debt. While I don't see a default as a high risk, you had better be willing to hold these instruments for a long time as they will likely be exchanged, modified, bought out, subordinated, etc. in some major ways over their life.
                Comment
                • MilfDriller
                  Restricted User
                  • 11-23-08
                  • 10186

                  #9
                  Do you realize how much Cali has changed in the last 20 years? Imagine 20 years forward.

                  W/ the hispanic dropout rate >50% and the hispanic female pregnancy rate at >50% before 20yo, plus the influx of more illegals.... tick tock, tick tock...

                  In 20 years nothing will work anymore. The whole thing will deterioate and sink into 3rd world-osity.
                  Comment
                  • Facepunch
                    SBR MVP
                    • 11-17-09
                    • 2090

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Boner_18
                    Yeah FP, I bet they do. Everything else is generally subordinate to the senior debt, here the muni's. However, that doesn't mean that the risk of default on those bonds wont force a workout or other modification on the terms of that debt. While I don't see a default as a high risk, you had better be willing to hold these instruments for a long time as they will likely be exchanged, modified, bought out, subordinated, etc. in some major ways over their life.
                    I know this is an old subject (long dead) but you have to think that the bondholders will be ok because California will need to sell more bonds to get out of this mess. You can not bite the hand that feeds you, I would say that serious Pension cuts are going to be made, it is the largest unfunded liability that California has right now. I fear for the pensioners more than the bondholders in this situation. I would say that corporate and top bracket taxes will also go up, and I am not sure that it will really have an adverse effect. A lot of people think that companies and people will move because of the taxes I really do not think so.
                    Comment
                    • PAULYPOKER
                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                      • 12-06-08
                      • 36581

                      #11
                      I got private stock in their marijuana trade
                      Comment
                      • HenPrivilege
                        SBR MVP
                        • 01-10-09
                        • 1720

                        #12
                        If you owned bonds from the city of Vallejo those are junk bonds. The city actually went bankrupt.
                        Comment
                        • Doug
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 08-10-05
                          • 6324

                          #13
                          Maybe Obama will bail them out ?
                          Comment
                          • DwightShrute
                            SBR Aristocracy
                            • 01-17-09
                            • 103654

                            #14
                            Originally posted by MilfDriller
                            Do you realize how much Cali has changed in the last 20 years? Imagine 20 years forward.

                            W/ the hispanic dropout rate >50% and the hispanic female pregnancy rate at >50% before 20yo, plus the influx of more illegals.... tick tock, tick tock...

                            In 20 years nothing will work anymore. The whole thing will deterioate and sink into 3rd world-osity.
                            How did they let it get this bad? Why did they just stand by and watch it happen?
                            Comment
                            • Chi_archie
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 07-22-08
                              • 63172

                              #15
                              unreal
                              Comment
                              • Grandmaster B
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 09-05-09
                                • 6035

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Doug
                                Maybe Obama will bail them out ?
                                if he does that...then he will have to bail out EVERY state that asks for it

                                not going to happen

                                California is like its own country

                                Arnold eats $1000 dinners nightly but takes money from the schools and disabled

                                real class act you got going there

                                he must be Republican
                                Comment
                                • PAULYPOKER
                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                  • 12-06-08
                                  • 36581

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by PAULYPOKER
                                  I got private stock in their marijuana trade
                                  Tommy Chong hooked me up
                                  Comment
                                  • Facepunch
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 11-17-09
                                    • 2090

                                    #18
                                    Arnold is pretty indicative and representative of the current republican Party,

                                    Rinos, Not Conservatives.

                                    Progressives
                                    Comment
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