Gambling Professionally?

Breaker · 09-22-07, 04:26 AM

To go pro you need to beat the juice consistently.
If you bet -110 type sports the break even point is 52%, to do well you need to get better than 55% at least, long term.

See if you can do that first, see if you can handle the incredible ups and downs that come with it.
If you can average above that for a few years without going nuts you have a chance.

One way to achieve that might be joining Statfox and sticking to one cathegory that works for you.

Good luck.

SBR_John · 09-22-07, 05:02 AM

Dont waste your time. By the time you figure out an angle to cap winners the books will counter and set the line so accurate that God wouldnt even know which side to play.

Finish school. Read books on running a website and open a sports gaming site or go work for a book in Costa Rica so you really know whats going on.

You can spend half your life learning what Im telling you is true. I already wasted half of mine figuring it out.

Arilou · 09-22-07, 05:08 AM

I'm always dismayed when someone wants to be a pro; most of the time it will end badly, especially if you skip school. Don't be in a rush. But once you do get into the picture, don't get caught in the -110 trap: Pinnacle still has the -105 and exchanges allow you to do even better when they're available, plus there are other line types. You need to be prepared to do what it takes to get access to non-USA sites.

VegasDave · 09-22-07, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by Arilou

I'm always dismayed when someone wants to be a pro; most of the time it will end badly, especially if you skip school. Don't be in a rush. But once you do get into the picture, don't get caught in the -110 trap: Pinnacle still has the -105 and exchanges allow you to do even better when they're available, plus there are other line types. You need to be prepared to do what it takes to get access to non-USA sites.

Don't mean to give a life story but I do want to clarify why I am asking.

I know that being a pro is a bit of a pipe dream... and I'm sure I won't actually go through with it.

I would however like to keep my options open and not completely shut it down as a possibility.

I hate school... I've hated it my entire life. I also hate work. I know that everyone does... but I feel a serious emptiness inside me when I work full time, and it effects my livelihood outside of work. I'm less interested in doing things that normally make me happy.

I've been thinking for the past year or so, without rest, what do I want to do with my life? And the sad thing is that even if I close my eyes and try to imagine a wild fantasy world, where schooling and salary play no role and I could be doing anything I want for a living, I still can't come up with anything. There isn't anything I can see myself doing for 40 hours a week and even remotely enjoying.

The only exception is handicapping. Even when I don't have the money to gamble, I still spend hours a week handicapping for a free football picks newsletter that I send out and some college picks I broadcast on youtube. Just because I love it.

So going by the theory you should do what you love... I should most definitely be a gambler.

pico · 09-22-07, 05:42 AM

i love coke, but i don't think being a professional coke head is a career opiton for me

jjgold · 09-22-07, 06:48 AM

You will ruin your life Son,look at all the examples here. Listen to SBR John's post, I could of not of said it better.

I think your looking to make money easy, it won't happen, secondly the lines are too sharp now along with sports being more unpredictable due to equal talent on all sides .

Son I am in the foothills of CR picking up money, I am a bum and all started out like you.

BuddyBear · 09-22-07, 09:01 AM

It's a dead end lifestyle for almost eveyone who tries it. Best thing is to finish school. find a career that interests you, and bet on sports on the side for recreation or if you want to be a serious gambler do that just make sure you have something else.

If you are interested, read The Odds by Chad Millman and see if you are still interested in being a professional bettor.

Zeroed · 09-22-07, 09:04 AM

as others said, you never should skip a real job or school for betting sports. But if you want to get into it, 2 things are most important: Discipline and line shopping.

You should always get the best line that is offered, no matter how strong your play is (in your opinion).
You should always think matemathically, and not with your heart. AND you should immediately stop if it starts getting to you.

raiders72002 · 09-22-07, 09:25 AM

really good posts on the subject here so I'm not saying anything new here.

Do not under any circumstances drop out of school.

Gambling is a very enticing thing to do professionally. You get to set your own hours, you can take a vacation any time that you want and no one tells you what to do.

The problem is that it's almost impossible for most to do. 1% or 2% are winning gamblers but it's not nearly that much that are pros.

Most guys ruin their lives trying to gamble full time. Don't get caught up into that trap without a back up plan.

Fezzik's an actuary that made good money but quit that field to gamble full time. Get set up with what's considered a real job first while you are gambling.

If you can then beat the game, go pro.

Doc JS · 09-22-07, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

I also hate work. I know that everyone does... but I feel a serious emptiness inside me when I work full time, and it effects my livelihood outside of work. I'm less interested in doing things that normally make me happy.

You have gotten some really good advice here from people who know of what you speak.

My advice is a little less warm and fuzzy...

It's called the Peggy Lee Syndrome, "Is that all there is?".

The answer is YES.

Grow up and deal with it.

Zeroed · 09-22-07, 09:32 AM

I also find it important to not just cap and bet straight.
If you use a line service and see a good scalp - take it.
It is free money, and if you don´t do only thatmost books wont care. Same thing with bonuses and other offers, don´t be too proud to take a little extra. Even if it might not be much for you, it is a mental boost to get some free stuff.

Justin7 · 09-22-07, 09:33 AM

Finish school. Get (and keep a job). Gambling has a 2-3 year learning curve IF you focus on learning. Start with a small bankroll - $500 - and practice discipline. If you can't limit your bets to $5 with that bank, you won't fare better when you have real money.

Never quit normal work until you have at LEAST 50-100k saved up as your gambling bankroll.

Focus on props and smaller sports. Don't try to beat Vegas at NFL or NBA, at least not at first. Instead, focus on Div I-AA football, Swedish B-league soccer, or even underwater basket weaving if someone will put a line on it. My winning hold on obscure stuff is much higher. You won'y always be able to make your earn on this stuff - you'll want more than $500 limits... but it's a good way to sharpen your teeth.

WestsidePete · 09-22-07, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by picoman

i love coke, but i don't think being a professional coke head is a career opiton for me

awesome post picoman...and Scarface one of the best movies as well but things didn't end up too good ....too much stress being a top coke man I guess...

raiders72002 · 09-22-07, 09:45 AM

The only things in life that I am passionate about are sports, horse racing, and gambling.

Also, if you are serious about about trying to go pro quit the horses.

Unless have inside info of are moving money you aren't going to make money here.

I gave up the horses many many years ago. I'm not even sure what the hold is anymore. It use to be between 17% and 25% but that's just a guess.

durito · 09-22-07, 10:57 AM

You'll have to work a lot more than 40 hours a week.

LargeMouthBass · 09-22-07, 11:03 AM

Listen, if you really like sports that much, go get a job at ESPN or Fox Sports West... Start out in the mail room and if you are determined, they will find a spot for you. I had this opportunity but my ego got in the way and didn't want to work in the mail room. Now I look back and realize that most start at the bottom. Don't get in to sports betting as your profession unless you have to...

Dark Horse · 09-22-07, 12:17 PM

Study the field very seriously, beginning with proper money management. After some years you should have a number of strong angles that are yours. Play those only. Discipline is your best friend. Unless you understand streaks, you will remain vulnerable to big losses. If you do understand streaks, you can be like a card counter in blackjack.

Chances are that if you like sports betting you have the mindset of an investor. Why limit yourself to gambling only? Diversify. The stock market is the same game as sports betting. But a whole lot easier to beat, because the market, in the long run, always goes up. That's like having the wind in your back all the way, instead of the wind against you as in sports betting.

homedog · 09-22-07, 12:59 PM

It completely amazes me that this question comes up so much in the forums.

Get an education and then a job. If you like to gamble, do so as a hobby with minimal funds.

Quit bullshitting yourself about becoming a pro gambler. It sounds like you are lazy to me and are looking for a free way out.

There are no free rides son.

JELLYBEAN · 09-22-07, 01:12 PM

Follow your dreams kid.........and when you go broke...get a real job

A footnote:

If you don't like working 80-100 hours a week..pro gambler is not for you

Wheell · 09-22-07, 01:34 PM

If I may, let me disagree with the "Peggy Lee Syndrome." We work because we have to. The question for you is: Do you have to? The answer is yes, one way or another. You clearly enjoy the details of analyzing football games and possibly other sports. There are plenty of ways to earn a steady paycheck with those skills. The problem with trying to make a living as a gambler is that it is a "zero sum game." You have to beat the sportsbooks which means you have to be sharp enough to either beat the opening lines, or, worse, be sharp enough to beat the lines after the early guys have hit them and the vig has dropped (ie, instead of 3 books having lines, everyone has lines and matchbook has liquidity).

I should quote Larry Hite hear (Wall St. trader, among other things): "There is nothing in Wall St. that rewards you for difficulty. The business rewards sagacious laziness."

You clearly would benefit from a job that rewarded that. I would recommend either trying to join a team or a sports publication (or even a sports related website).

I cannot stress enough how hard it is to make a living as a professional sports bettor. You can be right and lose thousands.

Good luck whatever you choose. And wear sunscreen.

EJandV · 09-22-07, 04:40 PM

You would be insane not to get your college degree , a straight up sucker . Even if you won a million dollars in the lottery next week it would be less than actually getting your degree .
The reason for school is not for you to be able to name all the presidents or know some math that I can't pronounce .
The biggest reason for completing school is to create discipline and create character , it shows you can stick with something and finish it with success .
Half the battle in someone being able to hold a job is SHOWING UP . When you get there then the day seems to take care of itself .
REAL COLLEGE atheltes finish school instead of taking the millions ealry .
I would bet most of those guys feel better truly inside because they got their college degree , as a person .
The only way most people could pull offwhat you are talking about is if you had a very very big bankroll to start and always had someone backing you , benefactor .
Who knows how good you are ? There really is no true answer because no matter how good you are , you are not on the field or on the court , on the the ice determing anything .
In this business no matter what you try and say , you are always AT THE MERCY OF HOW OTHERS PERFORM AND OOH YEAH AT THE MERCY OF REFS AND UMPIRES ........ETC
Roller coaster rides are fun , but you would not want to ride a roller coaster every day and then not be able to get off .
All that was stated in this thread are truths .
Exceptions to every rule , but most cant hack it , unless they are rich or have alot of experience and are not alone in their business / without all the addictive things , if it is a business truly , it can work , but you will work the same hours as any other job except you will work more (if you are passionate about your work) because you will always be thinking about this and that maychup coming up , if not consciously , subconsciously . WORK IS WORK .

Bill Dozer · 09-22-07, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

Don't mean to give a life story but I do want to clarify why I am asking.

I know that being a pro is a bit of a pipe dream... and I'm sure I won't actually go through with it.

I would however like to keep my options open and not completely shut it down as a possibility.

I hate school... I've hated it my entire life. I also hate work. I know that everyone does... but I feel a serious emptiness inside me when I work full time, and it effects my livelihood outside of work. I'm less interested in doing things that normally make me happy.

I've been thinking for the past year or so, without rest, what do I want to do with my life? And the sad thing is that even if I close my eyes and try to imagine a wild fantasy world, where schooling and salary play no role and I could be doing anything I want for a living, I still can't come up with anything. There isn't anything I can see myself doing for 40 hours a week and even remotely enjoying.

The only exception is handicapping. Even when I don't have the money to gamble, I still spend hours a week handicapping for a free football picks newsletter that I send out and some college picks I broadcast on youtube. Just because I love it.

So going by the theory you should do what you love... I should most definitely be a gambler.

It's tough to prepare for something when you don't know what that something is. I remember being told that the odds of me actually using the Spanish I would learn in high school where very high. Had I pictured myself in CR I would have probably earned good grades. Instead, I need the other SBR guys to help me with the restaurant menu.

22 is young but get the degree just to have it in the holster. Then, do what you want. If you are athletic, get a job at the gym. Like the social scene? Take a bartending class. Outdoors and the beach? Plenty of jobs for that too. If you don't have a lot of debt coming out of college you can bum it and see what you like.

Sports betting is a lot of work and if you are making a living at it the exciting parts that come with gambling fade away. Most pros either only bet moving lines or are great at math.

raiders72002 · 09-22-07, 05:29 PM

Homedog- That's what I like about you. You've always been a straight shooter.

HedgeHog · 09-22-07, 06:23 PM

I wish I had this advice when I was 21; a lot of sharps giving you great tips. Finishing school is the best idea and take math electives, especially those covering probabilty and other statiscal analysis would help (sounds complicated, but not so much). Saving up about 50k and spreading it out among 8-10 A & B Books is smart. Look for different types of Books (some at -105, some at free 1/2 point, some with a ton of props/futures and so on). And plan on working about 80 hours a week at handicapping, not counting the time you enjoy watching the games.

There's so much more, but I give you credit for asking the question. So many 21-year olds think they know it all, as do 50 year olds. Good luck to you the rest of your life, and be careful what you wish for.

jolub · 09-22-07, 07:08 PM

Maybe you should consider becoming a porn star. The pays not that good but the hours are short and I think you'd like the work.

MrX · 09-22-07, 07:14 PM

Ah, this takes me back.

I was in the same situation in 1993. I was just finishing up an environmental engineering degree and coming to terms with the fact that I hated environmental engineering. What I did like was poker. Finishing school was a no-brainer, since I only had one semester to go, but after graduating I decided to give poker a shot.

I made a go of it with $500 and a run-down Ford Tempo. One month later when the Tempo broke down, I got a job at a Mail Boxes Etc. For six months, I worked 40 hours a week and played poker 30 hours living with 5 friends in a 2-bedroom apartment. After six months I had a more reasonable bankroll saved up and I left the job to play full time again.

That was over 13 years ago and I haven't had a 'real' job since. The last few years, I've only worked six months out of the year, and traveled the other six. That would never have been a possibility the first 7 or 8 years, but I wasn't often working 80 hours a week either. I always had a full social and family life, in fact much more so than I could have maintained with a 9 to 5 job.

I have several friends with similar stories, but I've also witnessed my share of train wrecks. I'm sure everyone on here tries to steer you away from attempting to be a professional not because they really believe it is a 100% dead end, but because the potential for screwing up your life, and sometimes the lives of those close to you, is much higher if you go into gambling vs a more conventional profession.

I must say I have serious doubts about your being able to go directly into professional handicapping. As a student, you are most likely seriously under-bankrolled for such a venture. Unlike poker and some other gambling niches, it's nearly impossible to make a decent wage on a modest bankroll betting on sports without a strong likelihood of going bust.

My advice to you would be:

a) Really examine your life to find something other than gambling that would be fulfilling to you. Have you really exhausted all other possibilities, or just the ones that have been pushed on you? There are so many things to do with your life that fall outside what most people ever think to do.

b) If you still think gambling is it, understand that although there is a chance that you will make a great life of it, most likely you will fail. Nobody will be lining up to offer you positive opportunities, you have to find them in a world full of decks that are stacked against you. The smaller your bankroll, the bigger chances you will have to take just to pay the bills and make headway. When your bankroll is small, you can go bust doing everything right, just due to bad luck, lack of opportunities, or unexpected expenses.

c) Devour everything you can on the game of poker. It's your best chance to make a living with a limited bankroll, and it's everywhere. Good gambling opportunities come and go, but poker is always there. It's also a very good way to learn about many things that will apply to other forms of advantage gambling.

d) Don't go into debt. Seriously, don't keep a balance on your credit cards, and don't borrow $50 bucks from a friend while gambling is your source of income. The second you don't have enough real money to gamble with, get a job. Any job. If you were the victim of bad luck, and you think you can still make it gambling, work hard, save money, and try again. Otherwise find something else to fulfill your life. It's out there somewhere.

Good luck whatever you choose to do. It sounds like you won't be content to go into a life that will be miserable for you. That's very good, but just don't assume that gambling is the answer.

curious · 09-22-07, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by usckingsfan31

I am 21 years old (22 in January), and everyone keeps telling me that it is perfectly natural to not know what to do with my life at this point. Maybe it is. But I've taken multiple breaks from USC (despite being a straight A student in high school, college has not treated me well), I've worked multiple jobs and have disliked them all. The only things in life that I am passionate about are sports, horse racing, and gambling.

I have been working on my handicapping skills for years now, but I was wondering about taking things to the next level. I know that there are professional gamblers out there and I'm sure some (or many?) of you guys are.

So my question is, how do I get to that level? What books should I read, how would I get started, what can I do?

Thanks for any and all information.

I am a professional gambler both in blackjack and in sportsbetting. You already tell me that you don't have what it takes. Being successful at gambling takes a LOT of dedication, and study, and discipline, and patience, and knowledge. If you don't have the discipline and dedication to focus on the college studies that you made a committment to do, how in the **** are you going to put in the thousands and thousands of hours of dedicated study it takes to be successful at gambling? Short answer is, you aren't.

If you are really serious about this, then stop ****ing around and focus on college and take calculus, statistics, graph theory, probability theory, psychology, econometrics, and any other tough college course that will help you deal with the really tough math and playing conditions you have to deal with in order to have any chance at this. You have to be able to use the Kelly Criterion to figure out how much to bet. You have to be able to calculate your E.V., the list goes on. Find some of Ganches posts where he discusses something like figuring out what a point is worth in football.

To have any chance at succeeding at sportsbetting you have to become an expert at it. You have to learn forensic statistics. What stats are important? Why are they important? how do the stats help you determine the outcome?

You will need a good job to even think about doing this. Because you have to have a good bankroll. The variance in sportbetting is very high, so no one of your bets should be greater than 2% of your bankroll. So, if you are going to make your living on betting, you need a bankroll of at least 100 large. And you cannot continually take money out of your bank to pay your bills.

I do this professionally and I keep my "day" job because I don't want to have to take money out of my bankroll to pay living expenses.

If I were you I would start with college football. Find a conference where the teams are not bet that heavily. An obscure conference. And learn everything there is to know about all the teams in the conference. And I mean everything. Go watch some of their games in person. Sometimes the lines in these obscure games are way off from true probability. If you can't spot an edge in these obscure conference games, you won't be able to spot an edge anywhere.

I'm not going to wish you luck because your odds of succeeding at this are pretty much zero.

m3vr6 · 09-22-07, 07:23 PM

winning is the first half of the game and getting paid is the other half. it's useless if you win and don't get paid. so find a book that pays! also you need to be very discipline! DISCIPLINE!! and money management. save your winnings for a bad day or bad week and don't go out blowing it on a lot of cheap hookers.! also you should be very good in math and know the numbers associated with THE　LINES! and most importantly you should have a back up career. Also don't take out your bad days on the people around you.!!! gambling will **** you up if you're not grounded. but look at the good side!!! it's one of the healthiest drugs out there

and it's the only drug that you can't go to jail for

m3vr6 · 09-22-07, 07:28 PM

also stay away from horses!!! it's hard enough trying to pick outcome of team A playing B. how the hell are u going to pick a winner out of 10+ horses? if your taste is casinos. you should only play Poker or BJ. and stay away from any other tables. what game do you see the most when u walk into a casino? SLOTS! so therefore casinos makes most of their profits from SLOTS.

durito · 09-22-07, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by curious

I am a professional gambler both in blackjack and in sportsbetting. You already tell me that you don't have what it takes. Being successful at gambling takes a LOT of dedication, and study, and discipline, and patience, and knowledge. If you don't have the discipline and dedication to focus on the college studies that you made a committment to do, how in the **** are you going to put in the thousands and thousands of hours of dedicated study it takes to be successful at gambling? Short answer is, you aren't.

If you are really serious about this, then stop ****ing around and focus on college and take calculus, statistics, graph theory, probability theory, psychology, econometrics, and any other tough college course that will help you deal with the really tough math and playing conditions you have to deal with in order to have any chance at this. You have to be able to use the Kelly Criterion to figure out how much to bet. You have to be able to calculate your E.V., the list goes on. Find some of Ganches posts where he discusses something like figuring out what a point is worth in football.

To have any chance at succeeding at sportsbetting you have to become an expert at it. You have to learn forensic statistics. What stats are important? Why are they important? how do the stats help you determine the outcome?

You will need a good job to even think about doing this. Because you have to have a good bankroll. The variance in sportbetting is very high, so no one of your bets should be greater than 2% of your bankroll. So, if you are going to make your living on betting, you need a bankroll of at least 100 large. And you cannot continually take money out of your bank to pay your bills.

I do this professionally and I keep my "day" job because I don't want to have to take money out of my bankroll to pay living expenses.

If I were you I would start with college football. Find a conference where the teams are not bet that heavily. An obscure conference. And learn everything there is to know about all the teams in the conference. And I mean everything. Go watch some of their games in person. Sometimes the lines in these obscure games are way off from true probability. If you can't spot an edge in these obscure conference games, you won't be able to spot an edge anywhere.

I'm not going to wish you luck because your odds of succeeding at this are pretty much zero.

you've sure learned a lot in two weeks

curious · 09-22-07, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by durito

you've sure learned a lot in two weeks

Not sure what your point is. Maybe you could put the crack pipe down and say plainly what you are trying to say?

Zeroed · 09-22-07, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by homedog

It completely amazes me that this question comes up so much in the forums.

Get an education and then a job. If you like to gamble, do so as a hobby with minimal funds.

Quit bullshitting yourself about becoming a pro gambler. It sounds like you are lazy to me and are looking for a free way out.

There are no free rides son.

very true, and prolly the best you can do for such a youngster - telling him the truth without nice words

EJandV · 09-22-07, 08:36 PM

Free rides please !!!!

Originally posted by homedog

It completely amazes me that this question comes up so much in the forums.

Get an education and then a job. If you like to gamble, do so as a hobby with minimal funds.

Quit bullshitting yourself about becoming a pro gambler. It sounds like you are lazy to me and are looking for a free way out.

There are no free rides son.

There are in fact free rides in this world , the % is not so microscopic that it is not true . Some people in fact do get a free ride . Many different ways of this in the world , esp in this big loot , modern world we have now .......
But of course if you were going to land in that category you probably would not have asked the question that started this thread . lol

homedog · 09-22-07, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by EJandV

There are in fact free rides in this world , the % is not so microscopic that it is not true . Some people in fact do get a free ride . Many different ways of this in the world , esp in this big loot , modern world we have now .......
But of course if you were going to land in that category you probably would not have asked the question that started this thread . lol

There is no free ride you dipshit.