BetOnline

[SBR_John]

Dalton is not in Panama as far as I know. I've never heard his name mentioned there. Are you sure you are not confusing the BetPanAm computers? When I visited BestLines in 2002 they were in the old BetPanAm building which didnt sit to well.

Ricky BestLine I guess is listed because at one time it was a domain name owned by BoS. You can look at the indictment and see none of the guys involved with BetOnline are listed. Even if they were it would hardly be unusal. All the wsex guys are operating fine and there is no arguement that they are indicted.

Its good this book has some conspiracy theorists. Its a bad sign when no one cares. For me, I've seen first hand their new facility and the progress they have made over the last four years. Its their game to lose this football season. They have the team, a brand new facility and most importantly good payment processing.

[katstale]

and most importantly good payment processing.

As soon as Neteller and Moneybookers are added!!

[SBR_John]

As soon as Neteller and Moneybookers are added!!

Heres the skinny on that. They do plan to offer Neteller in the near future and might add Moneybookers too. They did have Neteller before. They said they were being cautious with Neteller due to Neteller's recent legal and possibly financial problems.

I would hope that the "near future" could be in the next month or two. Neteller is a low risk payment option despite their recent problems.

[bigloser]

none of the guys involved with BetOnline are listed. Even if they were it would hardly be unusal. All the wsex guys are operating fine and there is no arguement that they are indicted.

WSEX was/is a reputable organisation, most posters and mods and owners seem to agree that that was not the case with BOS. If any of the managment from the betonline BOS days is still with the company then this is a problem

[SBR_John]

They were not managers there. They had a book and sold it to BoS and left in 2002. SBR was the biggest critic BoS had bar none. Run a search on SportsbookReview.com. It should be obvious. They have been operating their own book for the past four years in Panama.

[bigloser]

SBR was the biggest critic BoS had bar none. Run a search on SportsbookReview.com..

My post states that SBR owners were BOS critics. See above.

Bestline bought more than the domain. Numerous posters have received spam calls etc from Betonline how did this happen ?

[aircoryell]

My post states that SBR owners were BOS critics. See above.

Bestline bought more than the domain. Numerous posters have received spam calls etc from Betonline how did this happen ?

it's common knowledge the BOS gear ended up at bestlines, and common knowlege they got a hold of their customer list. But I heard they bought all that stuff. who knows.

[ritehook]

it's common knowledge the BOS gear ended up at bestlines, and common knowlege they got a hold of their customer list. But I heard they bought all that stuff. who knows.

Correct. Who knows?

It does seem that in the final weeks the few people still answering the phones at BoS (and were assuring callers that they'd be paid, and so were eager to verify the mailing address) were preparing a solid and sellable list of offshore sports bettors for use or sale. (My experience in the list biz informs me that an up to date, quality list like that would be worth $5 to $10 per name to a book. And for a new-to-offshore bettor maybe even more. Premium stuff!)

They definitely were harvesting a quality list. I doubt it was the local employees, they wouldn't have the sophistication. I think the local workers were just trying to pick up one final paycheck.

But, here is what may be key: such lists are very seldom sold, they are "rented," ie, one time use only. The list seller does not give the list to the buyer, they simply send out his material.

And to maximimize profit they rent the list as many times as they can, to as many clients as they can find - in this case to the offshore sportsbook industry.

But I received at the test address ONLY A PROMO FROM BESTLINES. Nothing else, not from any offshore outfit, not from no one. Nada. Ninguna. Because i gave it out to no one else.

A one-time rental? Hmmm. Very very rare. Thus my conclusion that the list was being harvested specifically for a book that had a direct BoS connection. (And where in Panama did all that BoS techs stuff wind up? In the Panama City dump?)

Nevertheless, SBRs recommendation of this book is a big plus for them. I think they will be solid. Yes, I know SBR is not precisely the Consumers Union of the offshore betting biz, exactly, but it's the best we have IMO.

In fact, I wouldn't rule out posting up there, this year or next. Not as much as i would at Pinny were I able,, but for a few bucks.

In any case I wouldn't blame a produce section manager if the CEO of his supermarket decided to sell botulism-tainted tomatoes and strawberries.

If he went to work at a different market I wouldn't boycott it.

The soldiers and sub-officers who fight a stupid war aren't responsible for starting it.

[TheOffshoreGambler]

All I care about in a book is reduced juice a decent amount of options and do they pay. I started about two weeks ago after a 4 year stint at Pinnacle. Has there ever been any slow pays or anything like that. Thats whats important to me about a book.

[SBR_John]

My post states that SBR owners were BOS critics. See above.

Bestline bought more than the domain. Numerous posters have received spam calls etc from Betonline how did this happen ?

I dont think there is any doubt they are using the BoS database. You can buy it here in Costa Rica from several sources for $300. I got a BetOnline mailer and I was never on the BoS mailing list. All of these databases are floating around out there. Its a real problem. AK, kind of an infamous poster, buys and sells databases and is said to have all the major books in inventory.

[cloudagh]

Heres the skinny on that. They do plan to offer Neteller in the near future and might add Moneybookers too.

John,
With the current Neteller issues in Canada, I certainly would think Moneybookers has to be on their short list . I would post up a few dimes for NFL if I did not have to hassle with ** or wires. I am sure plenty of other Canadians would too.

[vanzack]

They were not managers there. They had a book and sold it to BoS and left in 2002. SBR was the biggest critic BoS had bar none. Run a search on SportsbookReview.com. It should be obvious. They have been operating their own book for the past four years in Panama.

From SBR:

2/12/2006 11:04 AM
BestLines Sports (SBR rating B-) controlling interest bought by former BoS executive. Look for BestLines Sports to move out of the old PanAm building within 60 days. The new partner told SBR in a meeting in Panama City that he intends to invest millions of dollars in a new facility, marketing and personnel. Although preferring to remain anonymous, this operator was one of the few well respected operators that came out of the Greg Champion era of BetOnSports.

[SBR_John]

From SBR:

2/12/2006 11:04 AM
BestLines Sports (SBR rating B-) controlling interest bought by former BoS executive. Look for BestLines Sports to move out of the old PanAm building within 60 days. The new partner told SBR in a meeting in Panama City that he intends to invest millions of dollars in a new facility, marketing and personnel. Although preferring to remain anonymous, this operator was one of the few well respected operators that came out of the Greg Champion era of BetOnSports.

Bill, you're fired.

That report is not completely accurate. If it was explained in finer detail it would read a former owner of a book that was sold to BoS. I mean think about it, would BoS pay one of their executives millions for a book they already owned?

We will all watch them. They are an A- book in our opinion. The guys involved are well known and we are comfortable with them. They are not a BetCris or even a 5Dimes yet. But I think that the players are going to score them highly this season.

[ritehook]

I dont think there is any doubt they are using the BoS database. You can buy it here in Costa Rica from several sources for $300. I got a BetOnline mailer and I was never on the BoS mailing list. All of these databases are floating around out there. Its a real problem. AK, kind of an infamous poster, buys and sells databases and is said to have all the major books in inventory.

John,

Anyone may be able to buy in CR what purports to be the BoS list - but I will guarantee you that it is NOT the primo BoS list, the up to date one(up to the time of their scram from CR)that BoS was paying a few locals to stay on the phone in the last weeks to compile.

I know that because at the "test address" I gave the last CR guy at BoS I still get mail from an offshore: namely BestLines, and now BetOnLine! I strongly suspect that the money to pay the last BoS phone workers came from the exec who wanted the primo mailing list - to take to the new company,

Got a BetOnLine promo mailing today, given me by the couple who now rent what at that time was an empty condo. They pass on ALL my mail - which isn't that much: only the promo stuff from, first Bestlines, and now BetOnLine. (Mailed from NY State)

If that primo list is being sold all over CR, why am I not getting from other CR sportsbooks any promo mail at that condo "test address" that I gave ONLY to BoS in the dying days.

And combined with the old post from SBR that VanZack just posted, one thing is clear: CASE CLOSED!

There is a direct connection between at least one former top exec (Dalton, most likely) at BoS and Bestlines/BetOnLine.

Indisputable now, I think. But as I've said, it doesn't really mean that BL/BoL is going to follow the same pattern, not at all. Kaplan is gone, and I doubt that Dalton or whoever is going to be doing stopovers in the U.S.

But I also understand why this key and respected exec would want very much to obliterate any connection between BoS and BL/BoL.

For me, if the exec in question were to come clean, show why he had nought to do with stiffing the BoS bettors, and maybe offered them a bigger than usual bonus to join BL/BoL, I'd be there right now. But that's just me, I appreciate candor and do not necessarily assess guilt by association. But I understand why they would want to cover their tracks -most bettors stiffed by BoS would likely be shocked and outraged.

In fact, I might put my money where my keypad is and post up with BetOnline. Not for big bucks, I do that only with books that have been conspicuously around for at least 6 years. If they stiff me - which I'm sure they will NOT - I'll come crying to SBR to get my bucks back

[katstale]

Makes for interesting reading, but I am with Cloud--get MB added as a deposit option (or Neteller) and I will be dropping some cash there to try them out.

I am simple. Reduced juice, good, free deposit/withdrawal options and pay me when I win = I am there!!!

[SBR_John]

Kats your request is in! Personally, yes Neteller was bad news with the DoJ and all but lets move forward.

We got word of another book dropping Neteller today which Bill is monitoring. Its silly and bad business. The books take very minimal risk dealing with Neteller. They need to butch up and provide the best service they can.

[ForgetWallStreet]

I plan on using BO as my #2 out to Matchbook for the upcoming football season. I don't like using 'newer' books, but reduced juice is the most important factor in selecting a book for me and Bet Online offfers higher limits than 5 Dimes. I will make sure to keep everyone up to date on my experience here.

[SBR_John]

The story of BetOnline is actually in this new online book "The Rise & Fall of BetOnSports". http://www.lulu.com/content/1102795

This is basically the rambling manifesto of BoS's ex-marketing guy. He basically outlines how BoS cheated anyone they could. Its a shame really. Without BoS the US might have well left internet gaming alone.

That is when I started to really establish a
great relationship with Charles Bauer the owner of Infinity Sports Book and
Casino, probably the smartest, most motivated online gaming owner in the
industry at the time. We certainly do not see eye to eye on everything
about the online gaming industry but we did agree on how to deal with
customers. Treat them as if they are your lifeline. Charles would leave
Infinity a few years later to help out his mother after his beloved father
passed. To this day I still believe in Charles and I know his followers and
employees believe in him as he is an advisor for www.BetOnline.com today
in Panama. He is also a young guy. He was in his late twenties when I met
him in 2000. Charles would regularly speak in person with his customers
and would not get off the phone with any unhappy customer until they were
happy. The offices of Infinity were small by comparison to NASA with
wagering clerks, sales, customer service representatives, and linesmen all in
the same room which was about 1500 square feet. Charles was the only
owner in the Mall San Pedro that paid me in full for my services. Charles
was everything that Gary wasn’t in a successful online gaming owner. He
was respectful, humble, and good to his employees, not to mention he loved
sports as much as I did. Ironically he isn’t even a citizen of the United
States but dang he loves college football, especially SEC football. His
employees were much the same, charismatic, happy, enjoyable to be around
and that is why when I wasn’t in the sales, VIP, or marketing offices of
BetOnSports, I spent quite a bit of time down on the 6th floor with the good
folks of Infinity who have mostly moved over to www.betonline.com.
As a matter of fact, I just spoke the other day with Andrew, the General
Manager of BetOnline.com. Andrew is a friendly Jamaican fellow that had
been around the Caribbean working for various online gaming companies.
He came immediately when Charles bought up BetOnline.com and reiterated
my thoughts in a phone conversation about Charles being the best
damn owner in the online gaming industry. What more would an employee

want than a boss that takes care of his employees while walking the walk
with hard work and getting the same performance out of his employees.
Charles might have been the most personable person in the office but he
was a workhorse also and didn’t always have time to spend out on the town
for a young fellow. He did go out occasionally but Andrew took the role of
leadership for Infinity when it came to going out on the town if Charles was
not present. He acted the part taking care of the hard working Infinity
employees by buying them drinks while hanging out at the All-Star café
across the street or at one of the many other establishments throughout San
Jose.
When anyone asks me about a good online gaming company to play with I
make sure to let them know www.BetOnline.com. Charles has a new name
at BetOnline.com as his buyout from NASA forced him to relinquish his name
because it was very strong with his customers. If you call betonline.com
with a problem there is a good chance you will be speaking with Charles and
if not you will speak with one of his employees that represents themselves in
the same manner Charles does with the utmost respect for each and every
person that might encounter a problem with their account.
I hate to say it but one person that I referred to Charles beat him for about
$23,000 while betting numerous money lines during the New England
Patriots run to their first Super Bowl title in January of 2002. The guy got in
and out quickly winning and never did give Infinity Sports Book and Casino a
chance to win it back but Charles paid the guy promptly upon request and I
never heard any complaints. A few months later I am sitting around my
friend’s apartment in Redondo Beach and he gets a personally signed letter
from Charles thanking him for his business. So that is exactly what you can
expect from www.BetOnline.com these days great service and a company
you can trust.
An example of good media and good business going hand in hand is
www.BetOnline.com and www.Gambling911.com. I have read some great
articles by Sting in favor of BetOnline.com and that is because it’s so damn
easy to talk about the truth as opposed to candy coating garbage. I have
done both. I candy coated BetOnSports.com till I couldn’t take it. As ugly
as BetOnSports could be there are great companies like BetOnline.com that
offers great online gaming entertainment

[aircoryell]

lot's of real good info in this thread.

somebody please correct me if I am wrong......but legendz luke's former right hand man D runs this place or used to ....no?

ps- got placed on post review at the RX recently for very politley questioning possible former BOS involvement at BOL....guess where theres smoke there is fire?

[durito]

I'm going through my mail from the last 4 months and I got a mailer from betonline. The form letter is from ceo Edward Robbins III.

I have no idea where they got my name. I might have had an account at betonsports 5-6 years ago for a few weeks. I deposited somewhere online with a cc, lost it all, and didn't get back into this for a couple years.

I'd have to see some indications that they welcome all players before I consider depositing there.

[aircoryell]

made 21 plays there since 8/1 at a nickel apiece, 2 for dimes and have gone 13-8 there on bases and NFL ps.....no problems at all.....fwiw

[Bill Dozer]

Makes for interesting reading, but I am with Cloud--get MB added as a deposit option (or Neteller) and I will be dropping some cash there to try them out.

I am simple. Reduced juice, good, free deposit/withdrawal options and pay me when I win = I am there!!!

Neteller is back as a transfer option at BetOnline today.

And was just told InstaDebit is back for Canadians for deposits only.

[katstale]

Neteller is back of as a transfer option at BetOnline today.

Are you guys good or what??

Now make the Canadians happy and give them MB!!

[Starbuckibm]

Just to let you guys know more about BetOnline.

I've had an account there for about three months or so. Requested a bank wire last Wednesday afternoon and it hit my bank this morning. They said it would take 3-5 business days and was only a $25 fee for this option.

Also they have two options once you go to request it. One is a bank wire and is $50 even. They also give you the option for an ACH payment/wire as well. Takes less time and the fee is less as well for the ACH option. Have not had a problem with them at all.

[SBR_John]

Thanks for the feedback Starbuckibm.

We are seeing a lot of players check out BetOnline. Hopefully they are able to handle the increased business. Panama's main negative is labor scalability. In countries like Costa Rica and even Curacao there are many experienced sportsbook ex-employees. Not so with Panama.

[mtx]

wow they have a lot of attractive bonuses... dont know if they can hold up with those