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Last edited by Bluehorseshoe; 07-02-25, 03:30 PM. -
Thx for the note. Insane. Any semi-serious gambler knows how tight the margins are in gaming:
*Sports: You want to seek out 16-cent juice. Anything > 20-cents is outrageous.
*Poker: Spokesman Daniel Negreanu has talked about how tough it is to carve out a consistent profit. Rake/fees need to be small. Can't keep ripping $$ off the table.
Will see how this plays out. If the fees/taxes are too much, reasonable minds will go elsewhere.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
Great video by Galfond. The language on gambling-law has always been poorly worded.
Surely there are lawyers getting ready to protest this bill.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
It was not clear who lobbied for this provision to be included in the bill, or why. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the new gambling tax provision would raise $1.1 billion over eight years.
Dina Titus, a Democratic Congresswoman from Nevada, wrote on X, “Buried within the BS Republican Budget bill is a provision that harms poker players and those who gamble by limiting loss deductions. I’m working on a legislative fix that fairly treats gaming losses in the tax code.”
Insanely stupid if this passes. The question is if this is only for itemized deductions or if it will affect people who are actually filing as professionals and doing a schedule C.
Go Dina Go!
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Props on the replies in this thread. A few follow-ups:
1) How desperate is the US govt for new income streams?
2) This law defies logic and destroys accounting basis for tax payments.
3) If it DOES pass, good luck enforcing this. Follow Galfond's example. If a guy clears $200k Net, the law would tax on $700k. 40% * $700k = $280k. So, he couldn't even pay if he wanted to.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
I'd also like to understanding the logic for taxing 100% of wins and only 90% of losses.
There has to be a math reason to justify it?.Comment -
Basically, if you are below 50% hit rate on sides at -110, this has no impact. If you are 50% or better, this hurts.
Say you make 200 plays and hit 50% (win 100 bets, lose 100 bets) and you bet 110 to win 100.
100 x 100 = +10000
-110 x 100 = -11000
You lose -1000 in actuality. But you can only deduct 90% of the -11000, so you can only deduct 9900 of losses, so they want to tax you on a $100 gain even the you lost $1000.
WTF
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Dina Titus is the typical lying politician. She has not done one thing for gamblers in her state and across the country.
You can lose 25 thousand dollars (total for the year) and still have to pay taxes on winners over 1200 dollars. So you hit for 15 thousand in taxable winners on machines and still have to pay income tax on this 15 thousand as part of your yearly income. Despite the fact you lost that 15 thou. back, along with the original recorded 25 thousand dollars.
This is a ''federal law''. But she and all the politicians in Nevada both sides of the isle will not challenge it because the Casinos donate so much of our money to them. This law is over 50 yrs old.Comment -
That's not true. You can deduct losses against the W-2g reported wins. There is a standard of proof for substantiating the losses, but they can be deducted. The one issue is that it forces you to itemize deductions, so if you wouldn't normally itemize, you can get screwed a bit that way if your non-gambling itemized deductions are less than the standard deduction.
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I will ask my tax guy about this. I do not have an itemized tax statement. But I will say that the days of picking up discarded losses from the sports books and claiming them on your tax are long gone.
This I know. I pay the taxes right there after a win so it is not added on to my total income (dividends, stocks, s.s. 401K, and any other income I show; even though I show a loss in gaming for the year.Comment -
Somebody is happy.Comment -
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I would like to see any politician lobbying for the abolishment of all taxes on end user gambling.
It's a form of double taxation as it is..Comment -
Wheres all the Trumps supporters now lolComment -
After 22 years on the grind I stopped playing poker for a living and got a regular job on Monday. Then on Tuesday this crap passes. I ran good on my timing, but seriously, wtf.
Any day-in day-out grinder will barely be able to make a living now. And forget scalping. Every scalp will show a loss. The only way to make it is a gambler now is to blatantly cheat on your taxes. This bill/law is horrible. Elections matter.Comment -
It’s a crime that the senator or senators who snuck in this provision into the bill is not publicly known.Comment -
Salud, Ian. Didn't know you were a poker-grinder.
I normally spend one week in Vegas every year playing the summer tournaments. I would cross paths with the grinders that you referenced. Guys who carve out a small edge and accumulate over the tournament series.
If you're ever inclined, would love to hear your observations in the Poker forum. If poker is a study of human-behavior, then I feel like I have some very specific observations. A human is a creature of habit, and that doesn't change.
I have a few poker-buddies, I send them hand-reviews. I used to post some similar hand-reviews here on SBR. If I'm unsure about a hand, I run it thru SOLVER.
A few starters that are hard to disagree with:
1) The game is now VO (Value Only). If you think your Opponent is playing a hand creatively, you're giving him too much credit. He's playing his hand, don't think differently until proven otherwise.
2) If it looks like your Opponent discovered plutonium...it's because he did. I call this the Exploding Bet Ratio. If Opponent thought his hand was worth a $30 limp pre-flop...but is now Raising it to $600 on Turn, it's because he now holds a monster (Premium hand: 2Pair+).
3) I rate my game as pretty good on most streets. I feel like I generate a good amount of Fold Equity by opening Speculative hands (in addition to Premium hands). Big Blind defense is now terrible, Opponents give up the BB for a song. Flip-side is that I hate calling down river bets, b/c that's (almost) always Value.
Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
they did something similar back in 2006 to some Ports Act bill and that really screwed up offshore sports betting. I literally just moved to Curacao and in month or so that was it. Many books, like Pinnacle and VIP.com stopped taking US players. No more c redit cards, Neteller, *******. Heck you could send as much as you wanted back them. 2,500 via western union? No problem. Those were the days.
I don't know if its gonna be the same as it was back in 2006 with this bill, probably not. Too much happening with the domestic books now. Tins on money being invested. I think its too late to stop it. We will see. Its more than likely a political stunt to make a deal of some kind. We'll see. But with crypto now, offshore is a great way to bet. More than ever. Just deal with a book with a good reputation.Comment -
Your timing is impeccable Ian. Great to hear.
As one of the long time sharps here, it was clear that you had a ton of experience from somewhere. It certainly showed. Too many logical plays to be luck. Well played over the years sir.
Gotta love politics. Bribery at its finest.
All the racetrack betters should abandon all triples, pick 3’s4’s’6’s , whatever. The take out is so high it was barely at bet worth it before now, and after that bombshell hidden in that , whatever the heck someone wants to call it , which I will call a pile of corruption , it is a loser’s play and only the professional players will have any chance which will be slim with those high takeout tax withheld exotics.
If anyone goes to the track, bet to win or maybe exactas. That’s it.
All the best with your new gig Ian.
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The poker industry — including those who play for a living, online and in casinos — could be in serious trouble due to a provision that will eat into the profits of those who make money gambling.Currently, gamblers can deduct their losses before paying taxes on their winnings. Under Trump’s bill, though, they’ll be able to deduct just 90% of their losses. For example: Win $100,000, but lose $80,000? You’ll have made $20,000 but owe taxes on $28,000.
“This new amendment to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act would end professional gambling in the US and hurt casual gamblers, too,” professional poker player Phil Galfond said on X. “You could pay more in tax than you won.”Comment -
This tax is in the BBB which is Trump's tax bill. So yeah, it has everything to do with Trump. And Crapo's fully supports the BBB according to his X post...
Workers and Main Street win with One Big Beautiful Bill:
No taxes on tips
No taxes on overtime
Tax relief on auto loan interest
Permanent small business deduction
Permanent full expensing for domestic R&D
Permanent, enhanced Opportunity Zone program
Historic tax relief for the working class and small businesses.Last edited by Headsterx; 07-04-25, 01:32 PM. Reason: Don't know what the deal with those big arrows... lolComment -
But Trump needs to sign this bill next week, right? As it can't be enforced without his signature. So what would Trump do if he doesn't agree with it? Send it back to remove this gambling disaster? Because if he signs it he authorizes it. This is why they say always read everything before you sign something.Comment -
Every American should be appalled at the fact that the truth about what is in a “ bill” is not made public until after it is voted on.
Congress then immediately closes up shop for the summer and they simply wait until most people forget about it before reconvening.
Seriously ?
We the people … are looked at like the suckers we are all played to be by everyone that partakes in this stuff.
Not their employees. Them.
And the “ party” has nothing to do with it.
To say this is because of Republicans, well that’s exactly what congress wants you to do so the fact that all that partake in this process know full well what is going on.
Divide and conquer folks. When you stop being for a party and start being a voting citizen, it doesn’t take long to realize that the entire system is flawed.
Every law should be voted on standing alone. If the budget goes over a set percentage amount, in a year, an election should be set for all new congressmen or women. A reset from the top down.
That might actually fix things. Instead , fingers will be pointed and people will take sides. There it is … divided again, just the way they want it.
I’ll post this here and not in the political forum. That place is too busy hating one another and bleeding for their side to realize what is going on. Hopefully, some in here do.
Gl folks.Comment
