General Reprimanded in Tillman Investigation

ShamsWoof10 · 07-31-07, 07:50 PM

His tightly clustered bullet wounds suggested that to some investigators that Tillman was shot on purpose.

No one knew this...? Well Duuhh.. This is old news.. but still sad... 3 years and 3 moths ago..? mmmhmmm ...look back fokes..it "BY CHANCE" happened the week of the NFL Draft... My ***** G.W. was gettin' some heat big time then... If I was G.W. I would have done the same thing... Call up the Fed. Reserve and tell them to put more cute ink on paper ($400K) and send it to his parents with a heroic story about how he was a hero and yada yada...

I did some helmets with the Tilman tribute decal and the WTC ones kick it's as*.. much cooler lookin'...

remmy358 · 07-31-07, 08:12 PM

with all due respect to pat tillman, because in my eye's he is a hero and a role model...but...

i'm sick of hearing about this. no other fallen troop would ever receive this amount of time, effort, and energy to investigate death..

i understand that there were 'lies' and 'concealing' and what not, but i always look at situations with a goal in end.

we're spending millions of dollars, with what end in sight?

the men with him have told their side of the stories.

people will always wonder...

let's put this to rest...

Pat T. would NOT WANT THIS if he were alive...he'd be ashamed. He didn't want this publicity.

Dark Horse · 08-01-07, 01:47 AM

Do I think it possible that an administration that steals an election, orchestrates 9/11, cooks up evidence to invade Iraq, outs a CIA agent who's husband criticized that evidence, advocates torture, assigns itself the right to imprison anyone indefinitely without trial, pardons the prison time for the fall guy in the above CIA leak, and can't turn a single corner without wiping its ass with the Geneva convention and the US Constitution, would even blink at taking out a high profile critic of the war?

Nah...

Was Hero Pat Tillman Murdered by Neocons?

by James Buchanan

Pat Tillman walked away from a three million dollar football contract to fight terrorism. He was a genuinely patriotic American. Afghanistan had a large al Qaeda presence and Osama bin Laden was rumored to be there. Tillman joined the Special Forces and was fighting al Qaeda over there. But then, George Bush declared war on Iraq. Tillman didn’t believe that Iraq had anything to do with the 911 attack. Tillman was ordered to serve a tour of duty in Iraq and was eventually sent back to Afghanistan, where he was killed. The original report claimed that Tillman was killed by enemy fire. Five weeks later it was admitted that he was “accidentally” shot in a friendly fire incident.

The parents of Tillman were outraged that the Bush administration had lied to them. It seemed at first that the neocons were trying to build up Tillman as a bigger hero for propaganda purposes and did not want the public to know he died in a pointless accident. Some additional information however has been revealed that would provide a strong motive for the neocons to have Tillman assassinated so that he would not embarrass the Bush administration by going public as a “hero-turned-dissident”.

One news article reports “the San Francisco Chronicle examined more than 2,000 pages of testimony, as well as interviews with Tillman’s family members and soldiers who served with him. Sunday’s article by Robert Collier said the newspaper ‘found contradictions, inaccuracies and what appears to be the military’s attempt at self-protection.’ The Pentagon belatedly confirmed that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire last year in Afghanistan. His family hopes a new inquiry launched by the Pentagon in August will answer some of their questions, for example, why testimony was changed and why the military waited five weeks to notify the family of the friendly-fire aspect. ‘There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,’ his mother, Mary Tillman, told Collier. ‘There are too many murky details.’ The files the family received from the Army in March were heavily censored.”

The same article continues “The Chronicle also revealed that interviews ’show a side of Pat Tillman not widely known — a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought, and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author.’ The massive Chronicle article contains the testimony of a colleague who watched him die: ‘I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, ‘Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit.’ Tillman said this over and over until he stopped, having been hit by three bullets in the forehead. After 9/11, Tillman decided to give up his career, saying he wanted to fight al-Qaeda and help find Osama bin Laden. A colleague who served with Tillman for more than a year in Iraq and Afghanistan, said: “We were outside of (a city in southern Iraq) watching as bombs were dropping on the town. … We were talking. And Pat said, ‘You know, this war is so f— illegal.’ And we all said, ‘Yeah.’ That’s who he was. He totally was against Bush. Another soldier in the platoon said Tillman urged him to vote in the 2004 election for Sen. John Kerry.”

The San Francisco Chronicle article reports “…other Tillman family members are less reluctant to show Tillman’s unique character, which was more complex than the public image of a gung-ho patriotic warrior. He started keeping a journal at 16 and continued the practice on the battlefield, writing in it regularly. (His journal was lost immediately after his death.) Mary Tillman said a friend of Pat’s even arranged a private meeting with Chomsky, the antiwar author, to take place after his return from Afghanistan — a meeting prevented by his death.” In an age of Big Brother, Carnivore and a government that spies more on its own citizens than on terrorists, it seems likely that the Bush administration caught wind of the meeting between Chomsky and Tillman. This situation would almost certainly lead to a massive publicity incident with headlines of “Hero Condemns Iraq War and Bush.” This pending disaster for the neocons may have driven them to take extreme measures.

Obviously the neocons didn’t want a war hero turning against George Bush (who evaded serving in the Vietnam War when it was his turn to fight). The big question is: “Would the neocons order the assassination of a disgruntled war hero to avoid a publicity fiasco?” We have seen how much political damage one determined person can do in the Cindy Sheehan case. Early in her peace vigil outside Bush’s ranch, Mrs. Sheehan was threatened by a crazed neighbor of Bush who fired a gun into the air. There were rumors circulating that Cindy would be arrested early during her Crawford vigil. Whoever started these rumors obviously intended to scare her off. If an American mom could be treated this badly, how would the neocons deal with a war hero, who was thinking of going public?

Pat Tillman’s Special Forces unit split into two groups to try to encircle enemy forces. While it’s easy to imagine a poorly trained National Guard unit firing on itself, the Special Forces soldiers spend thousands of hours training and are extremely unlikely to make this mistake. During the incident, in which Tillman was killed, he had called on the radio for the other soldiers to cease fire. The fact that he was shot three times in the head AFTER pleading on the radio for a cease fire is highly suspicious. Whoever shot Tillman was close enough to shoot him in the head, which implies they had a good look at him. The Afghan rebels typically have beards and turbans –quite a contrast from a US army helmet. An assassin could have been laying in wait for Tillman’s unit to pass by or may even have been a corrupted member of Tillman’s unit. The fact that the neocons lied about Tillman’s death when it was first announced to the public, suggests they have something to hide. Were they hiding an embarrassing friendly fire incident. or an assassination?

tacomax · 08-01-07, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by remmy358

with all due respect to pat tillman, because in my eye's he is a hero and a role model...but...

i'm sick of hearing about this. no other fallen troop would ever receive this amount of time, effort, and energy to investigate death..

Maybe not (as in it maybe wouldn't have made the same amount of coverage as Tillman) but does it make it wrong? If someone has given their life to serve their country, irrelevant if they were a former NFL player or not, doesn't their family deserve a truthful explanation as to how they died. I think so. Maybe your point of view differs.

Originally posted by remmy358

Pat T. would NOT WANT THIS if he were alive...he'd be ashamed. He didn't want this publicity.

How do you know that?

Originally posted by http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=10036 17692

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Tchocky · 08-01-07, 01:30 PM

"Friendly fire" is really a ambiguous term. Apparently this fire wasn't very friendly.

Willie Bee · 08-01-07, 02:35 PM

The fact the military/govenment covered this up and lied about it is not surprising at all. I don't generally subscribe to a bunch of conspiracy theories either way.

What is surprising to me is that the NBC affiliate in Chattanooga can't do any better than a complete nitwit with about a 3rd-grade education to write/edit/post this story for their website. Geez Louise!

ShamsWoof10 · 08-01-07, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Willie Bee

conspiracy theories

Could you please give me "YOUR" definition of this..?

Please no wakakin-whatever's....

remmy358 · 08-01-07, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

Do I think it possible that an administration that steals an election, orchestrates 9/11, cooks up evidence to invade Iraq, outs a CIA agent who's husband criticized that evidence, advocates torture, assigns itself the right to imprison anyone indefinitely without trial, pardons the prison time for the fall guy in the above CIA leak, and can't turn a single corner without wiping its ass with the Geneva convention and the US Constitution, would even blink at taking out a high profile critic of the war?

Nah...

hey dickhead you live here? if so, get the fux out if you feel this way - go somewhere else that has a better administration that's more to your liking or shut up. in some countries you get hung for saying crap like that...

Dark Horse · 08-01-07, 07:25 PM

Your obvious lack of manners aside...

In this country you can be locked up for anything this administration deems a threat, without a right to trial. So why should I go somewhere else to be hung? Judging from your reply, I believe there are still informants enough to point people like me out.

Who do you think are the protectors of freedom? Those who stand up for freedom, in the face of intimidation, or those who, in the name of 'patriotism', hand it over to a fascist administration?

Truth begins where belief is destroyed. But most people are so identified with their beliefs that they consider the destruction of those beliefs a personal threat, rather than a necessary process.

remmy358 · 08-01-07, 08:01 PM

manners?

you obviously don't realize how offensive it is to say 9/11 was orchestrated, ever think that people lost loved ones there? it's disrespectful and disgraceful.

i don't buy what the govt tells us 100%, and im not even positive someone at some level didnt plan explosives in that bldg....but it's ludacris for you to say what you said.

blah blah blah the govt the govt the govt...

bottom line is you wake up in the morning and you can do as you wish - you should learn to appreciate that, and it's thanks to all the men that have fought for our country.

try living in the middle east or elsewhere where you don't have the freedom to sit on your computer and gamble your life away.

there are a lot of things i dont like about our govt...i think people in most countries feel the same...but that's life. in reality we can do as we wish and are free as can be.

Dark Horse · 08-01-07, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by remmy358

manners?

you obviously don't realize how offensive it is to say 9/11 was orchestrated, ever think that people lost loved ones there? it's disrespectful and disgraceful.

So, because people lost loved ones it's offensive to realize it was an inside job? An interesting belief...

Hitler understood the sentiment well, when he said: "the greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.”

If you want facts, this video is a good starting point. If you prefer beliefs, enjoy the slumber party.

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=mysteries+9%2F11&total=561&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

ShamsWoof10 · 08-01-07, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by remmy358

manners?

you obviously don't realize how offensive it is to say 9/11 was orchestrated, ever think that people lost loved ones there? it's disrespectful and disgraceful.

i don't buy what the govt tells us 100%, and im not even positive someone at some level didnt plan explosives in that bldg....but it's ludacris for you to say what you said.

blah blah blah the govt the govt the govt...

bottom line is you wake up in the morning and you can do as you wish - you should learn to appreciate that, and it's thanks to all the men that have fought for our country.

try living in the middle east or elsewhere where you don't have the freedom to sit on your computer and gamble your life away.

there are a lot of things i dont like about our govt...i think people in most countries feel the same...but that's life. in reality we can do as we wish and are free as can be.

The psychology is interesting here... In comparing sheep to humans it is easy to see how humans are easier to maintain control of then sheep... In a collection of sheep there are always those few that try and go against the grain.. The sheepherder has to use his stick to keep them in line... Humans are easier because they can keep each other in line..

This is a fascinating example and a common one... He preaches about one having the freedom to speak their mind but when one does he attacks them because he does not agree with their belief... After attacking one will even go as far to say "you're in a free country to say whatever you wish but if you say things like that you can just leave.." Furthermore people like this piggy back off of the ones that really did fight for the freedom because what they had to do to get the freedom is frowned upon by the freedom piggy backers...

Read this guys posts again and decide for yourself if he is not running in circles... Not only one the point I mention about freedom but he says he can believe that explosives were put there by someone at a high level..(inside job) but not that it could be planned totally... The two points have one thing in common and that is THERE IS NO CORRELATION IN THOUGHT WHATSOEVER...

By the way the fact that you think one has no freedom in the middle east is a clear indication that you believe 100% what is told to you... With the exception of S. Arabia... THIS STATEMENT IS PROGRAMMED HORSESH*T...

Dark Horse · 08-01-07, 09:26 PM

Forgot to add illegal wiretapping to the long government list. Add it all up and you can clearly see the contours of a dictatorship.

Shamswoof, some people run in circles all their lives.

Originally posted by remmy358

hey dickhead you live here? if so, get the fux out if you feel this way

Remmy himself feels free to insult, and yet is very sensitive about others saying something that might possibly insult .., well, others. How could one not appreciate the contradiction?

Originally posted by remmy358

you obviously don't realize how offensive it is to say 9/11 was orchestrated, ever think that people lost loved ones there? it's disrespectful and disgraceful.

In the very next paragraph Remmy joins the disrespectful ones, at least in his own book, by being open to the idea of controlled demolition.

Originally posted by remmy358

im not even positive someone at some level didnt plan explosives in that bldg....but it's ludacris for you to say what you said.

If that wouldn't be so ludicrous, that is. For me to say it, I think...

Willie Bee · 08-02-07, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by ShamsWoof10

Could you please give me "YOUR" definition of this..?

Please no wakakin-whatever's....

Shams, buddy, I thought you knew what a conspiracy theory was. My definition isn't any different than most others. And my belief is they happen far less often than other people think they do. Pretty simple, actually.

What the hell is a wakakin?