When is a good time to surrender in blackjack?

[btraband]

stop when it gets cold

[JohnGalt2341]

FWIW, there's a difference in percent of hands won and house edge. I don't know the accuracy of the 42% figure, but I can say that the best blackjack games run roughly between 0.2% and 0.7% in favor of the house IF the player plays perfect basic strategy for that particular game. Doesn't seem like much of an edge, but it can become one over thousands of hands played. Proper advantage play (counting) at a countable BJ game can sway the edge between 1 and 2 percent towards the player. BOL

Please define a "best blackjack game". Also, where did you get the 0.2% to 0.7% house favor? A book? Run the test yourself for 10 thousand hands or so. I assure you that the house edge its AT LEAST 0.8%.

[BennyFang]

Just please tell me how much BlackJack experience you have. Don't put much into automatic shufflers. In fact I can get a better mix than an automatic shuffler and shuffle faster than an automatic shuffler. The main reason why Casinos use them is so there is no time wasted in between shoes. While the "Blue" cards are being dealt the "Red" cards are shuffling. There ARE dealers however that are just completely awful shufflers and they can be beat if you know what to look for. But like I said, even then it's difficult. How does one become a BlackJack legend like yourself? What is it that makes you so good? What's your specialty? Counting? Or are you psychic? Are you David Blaine by any chance?

It's good to see confirmation of this....from the player's side, I've always thought that the "best" dealers have the edge by manipulating the cards through shuffling (not cheating)......and by dealing faster (more hands played per unit time). Good insight.

[BennyFang]

Please define a "best blackjack game". Also, where did you get the 0.2% to 0.7% house favor? A book? Run the test yourself for 10 thousand hands or so. I assure you that the house edge its AT LEAST 0.8%.

Many two deck games on the strip in LV with the best rules for the player run at 0.19% house edge with basic strategy play (I think the best 6 deck games are around 0.6%). All this is from a website, I can't remember the name now because it's been so long since I've looked at it (don't play much BJ anymore).....essentially it's a spreadsheet where you plug in the number of decks and rules and it spits out the percent edge based on an infinite number of hands.

I wouldn't doubt the 42% figure but of course the 1.5:1 blackjack, double down, and split rules are all advantageous for the player if played correctly and bring the house favor down to roughly 0.2 - 2%.

[BennyFang]

Please define a "best blackjack game". Also, where did you get the 0.2% to 0.7% house favor? A book? Run the test yourself for 10 thousand hands or so. I assure you that the house edge its AT LEAST 0.8%.

Sorry forgot....by best blackjack game I meant games with most favorable rules for the player, for example:

double on any two cards
double after split
resplit aces
surrender
etc

[JohnAnthony]

Sorry forgot....by best blackjack game I meant games with most favorable rules for the player, for example: double on any two cards double after split resplit aces surrender etc

Do these kind of games exist at all Benny? thanks.

[Dunder]

Sorry forgot....by best blackjack game I meant games with most favorable rules for the player, for example:

double on any two cards
double after split
resplit aces
surrender
etc

Based on single deck blackjack with the most player friendly rules, books/websites tell you that the house-edge is 0.44%. I calculated it at 0.51% (it´s possible I made an error).

There is a casino in London than runs (a few) zero-edge tables which has rules which mean playing basic strategy is a net even proposition. Most people, of course, do not play basic strategy.

[JohnAnthony]

There is a casino in London than runs (a few) zero-edge tables which has rules which mean playing basic strategy is a net even proposition. Most people, of course, do not play basic strategy.

Name? I will be in London later this year.

[Dunder]

Name? I will be in London later this year.

The Casino at the Empire, John. Leicester Square.
It´s members only, AFAIK.

[JohnAnthony]

The Casino at the Empire, John. Leicester Square. It´s members only, AFAIK.

Damn..was the December for 10 days and fell in love. Might move there despite the high-costs...loose ladies as well. Are you a native Dunder?

[warriorfan707]

Just please tell me how much BlackJack experience you have. Don't put much into automatic shufflers. In fact I can get a better mix than an automatic shuffler and shuffle faster than an automatic shuffler. The main reason why Casinos use them is so there is no time wasted in between shoes. While the "Blue" cards are being dealt the "Red" cards are shuffling. There ARE dealers however that are just completely awful shufflers and they can be beat if you know what to look for. But like I said, even then it's difficult. How does one become a BlackJack legend like yourself? What is it that makes you so good? What's your specialty? Counting? Or are you psychic? Are you David Blaine by any chance?

You're a joke. You think you are some SPECIAL DEALER or something????? Are you fukkin kidding me? You have no manipulation on the game, you are required to play by a set of rules, I don't even know what you are trying to claim.

The funniest thing about this is I have also been a dealer as well, I have experience on both sides of the table.

What makes me so good is I know when to play basic strategy and when to differnetiate from it. I can have 8 beers in me, and still count using the +1-1 system.

I will own you from either side of the table, I would bet my life I can deal better than you, and I can also smoke you from the other side of the table.

Your claims about blah blah Im so good I challenge anyone, are among some of the most laughable things Ive ever read anywhere because what happens as a result of your dealing is pure luck as you are unable to make any decisions whatseover. Not sure what part of this you don't grasp.

[Dunder]

Damn..was the December for 10 days and fell in love. Might move there despite the high-costs...loose ladies as well. Are you a native Dunder?

Yes and no.

I was born on the UK (Edinburgh) but have spent most of my adult life in the Far East. I have been back in the UK (about 30 miles from London) for the last six years but am planning an exit when my kids finish schooling.

[JohnGalt2341]

I don´t play BlackJack (or any -EV game) for anything other than (very occasional) entertainment, John. I can do a Zen count at home but it would be obvious what I was doing to anyone within a 50 metre radius. Would nonetheless be interested to know what strategies/techniques you used to spot card counters.

Spotting a card counter is pretty easy actually. First off, if you're losing, the Casino doesn't give a rats ass if you're counting. Count away. Most counters lose most of the time anyway. However, anytime there's a lot of action at a table and a player is winning I can assure you there are people upstairs watching the table closely through the camera. If a player is betting somewhat erratically and he's winning his bigger bets there are people upstairs counting the table as well. The casino I worked at almost never threw out card counters. They were more concerned with people capping their bets and for good reason. It's much easier to lay(or take) a chip from your bet at a noisy crowded table then it is to be successful counting cards.

[warriorfan707]

spotting a card counter is pretty easy actually. First off, if you're losing, the casino doesn't give a rats ass if you're counting. Count away. Most counters lose most of the time anyway. However, anytime there's a lot of action at a table and a player is winning i can assure you there are people upstairs watching the table closely through the camera. If a player is betting somewhat erratically and he's winning his bigger bets there are people upstairs counting the table as well. The casino i worked at almost never threw out card counters. They were more concerned with people capping their bets and for good reason. It's much easier to lay(or take) a chip from your bet at a noisy crowded table then it is to be successful counting cards.

wrong again!

I sincerely hope noone is putting merit behind this nonsense

not sure what donkeys you have dealt you in the past

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

wrong again! I sincerely hope noone is putting merit behind this nonsense not sure what donkeys you have dealt you in the past

so you dont beleive casinos watch counters? what's wrong about his statement?

[Dunder]

It's much easier to lay(or take) a chip from your bet at a noisy crowded table then it is to be successful counting cards.

I can believe that. I watched a documentary once where a bunch of reformed hustlers succesfully pulled all sorts of stunts in various casinos. In one they actually got away with switching the shoe!

[warriorfan707]

so you dont beleive casinos watch counters? what's wrong about his statement?

Its much easier to profit substantially by counting than it would be by "pressing your bet" which will get you kicked out of the casino about 10 times as fast

[JohnGalt2341]

You're a joke. You think you are some SPECIAL DEALER or something????? Are you fukkin kidding me? You have no manipulation on the game, you are required to play by a set of rules, I don't even know what you are trying to claim. The funniest thing about this is I have also been a dealer as well, I have experience on both sides of the table. What makes me so good is I know when to play basic strategy and when to differnetiate from it. I can have 8 beers in me, and still count using the +1-1 system. I will own you from either side of the table, I would bet my life I can deal better than you, and I can also smoke you from the other side of the table. Your claims about blah blah Im so good I challenge anyone, are among some of the most laughable things Ive ever read anywhere because what happens as a result of your dealing is pure luck as you are unable to make any decisions whatseover. Not sure what part of this you don't grasp.

lol... you're hilarious man. First off, I'm not saying I'm a special dealer. I'm saying the reason why I would win is because of the rules of BlackJack favor the house. Do you really think BlackJack is 50/50 game??? It's not.... it's not even close really. Do you even understand odds or percentages even remotely? Let me ask you something simple... just so I know where you're at. If you bet on a TEAM and the odds are -110 what percent of the time do you have to win just to break even? I'm going to give you a hint, if you win only 50% of the time you are going to lose in the long run. Are you aware of this? In BlackJack, most players win 42% of the time simply because of the rules. Also, I'm not sure what thread you are reading but I never said "I'm so good". That was YOU that said that. Please quote me where I said that. I said I'll challenge anyone as long as I'm the dealer and I get house rules and I use 4 decks or more.

[warriorfan707]

Wow, this guy now is claiming that the best blackjack players in the world get nowhere near 50/50 odds, and that is simply put, blatantly wrong.

I'm done with this retarded argument because you have exposed yourself.

You are dismissing the fact that you don't even need to win 50% of your hands, even if you were right, which you aren't.

A great card counter can alter his bet as he pleases, double down, split, and in some cases surrender. Not to mention your views of the game itself are remarkably wrong for someone who claims to be a blackjack dealer.

[JohnAnthony]

Yes and no. I was born on the UK (Edinburgh) but have spent most of my adult life in the Far East. I have been back in the UK (about 30 miles from London) for the last six years but am planning an exit when my kids finish schooling.

May I ask why? I'm only intrigued because London seemed so..whole, from a tourist stand-point. I understand it can be very different for a citizen, but this bad..?

[JohnGalt2341]

Wow, this guy now is claiming that the best blackjack players in the world get nowhere near 50/50 odds, and that is simply put, blatantly wrong.

I'm done with this retarded argument because you have exposed yourself.

You are dismissing the fact that you don't even need to win 50% of your hands, even if you were right, which you aren't.

A great card counter can alter his bet as he pleases, double down, split, and in some cases surrender. Not to mention your views of the game itself are remarkably wrong for someone who claims to be a blackjack dealer.

I'm around 90% sure you were never a Dealer unless you're counting those 12 times you dealt at your friends house. Who's with me on this?

Secondly, I am well aware that counters can raise their bet at anytime. I never claimed I could beat a GREAT counter with 1 or 2 decks. I said 4 or more. With 4 or more decks I'll challenge anyone on the planet. Do you know why this is? If you were ever a dealer you would know why counters don't even bother with 4 or more decks. Someone help him out here. Also, what views of mine of the game are wrong?

[warriorfan707]

Wrong once again... wow.

I dealt at Konocti Vista Casino in Northern California, Lake County.

4 decks you can still count and win. The odds are'nt as good as single or doubledeck obviously, and you might not even always win.

But A GREAT PLAYER CAN IN THE LONG RUN CAN IN FACT WIN COUNTING CARDS AT A 4 DECK SHOW AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS YOU ARE AN IDIOT

[Sam Odom]

When I was a counter in vegas I played single or double deck (hand dealt of course) I was small time.

The casinos were no fools! If you were a real threat to them they would use a top dealer who would count along with you If the deck[s] were negative he would deal deep , when it turned positive he would shuffle.

[JohnGalt2341]

Wow, this guy now is claiming that the best blackjack players in the world get nowhere near 50/50 odds, and that is simply put, blatantly wrong.

I tell you what, I challenge you to name 5 famous BlackJack players in the history of the world. You can't even name 3 can you? Why do you think that is? If I said name 5 famous Poker players you could probably name them in less than 10 seconds. Why do you think that is? Almost the only people making money in BlackJack besides the dealers are the ones writing those worthless books. Believe me, I've read quite a few of them. Most of them say the same thing and none of them work. Go ahead and believe those books. I assure you that you are going to lose.

[Dunder]

May I ask why? I'm only intrigued because London seemed so..whole, from a tourist stand-point. I understand it can be very different for a citizen, but this bad..?

I by no means hate my life here, but my line of "work" means that I can be based pretty much anywhere outside of the US, China, Malta or Costa Rica. My wife is Singaporean and we both prefer a less ´temperate´ climate, the cost of living in the south east of England is frankly ridiculous too.

It will be another two years before we even think about deciding where to move.

[JohnAnthony]

I by no means hate my life here, but my line of "work" means that I can be based pretty much anywhere outside of the US, China, Malta or Costa Rica. My wife is Singaporean and we both prefer a less ´temperate´ climate, the cost of living in the south east of England is frankly ridiculous too. It will be another two years before we even think about deciding where to move.

I see. God bless the family Dunder.

[THEGREAT30]

strategy doesn't matter casinos are about luck

[warriorfan707]

Good grief please tell me you were at least only half serious