A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare

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  • betplom
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-20-06
    • 13444

    #1
    A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare


    August 03, 2009|Michael M. Rachlis, Michael M. Rachlis is a physician, health policy analyst and and author in Toronto.

    Universal health insurance is on the American policy agenda for the fifth time since World War II. In the 1960s, the U.S. chose public coverage for only the elderly and the very poor, while Canada opted for a universal program for hospitals and physicians' services. As a policy analyst, I know there are lessons to be learned from studying the effect of different approaches in similar jurisdictions. But, as a Canadian with lots of American friends and relatives, I am saddened that Americans seem incapable of learning them.

    Our countries are joined at the hip. We peacefully share a continent, a British heritage of representative government and now ownership of GM. And, until 50 years ago, we had similar health systems, healthcare costs and vital statistics.
    The U.S.' and Canada's different health insurance decisions make up the world's largest health policy experiment. And the results?

    On coverage, all Canadians have insurance for hospital and physician services. There are no deductibles or co-pays. Most provinces also provide coverage for programs for home care, long-term care, pharmaceuticals and durable medical equipment, although there are co-pays.

    On the U.S. side, 46 million people have no insurance, millions are underinsured and healthcare bills bankrupt more than 1 million Americans every year.

    Lesson No. 1:
    A single-payer system would eliminate most U.S. coverage problems.

    On costs, Canada spends 10% of its economy on healthcare; the U.S. spends 16%. The extra 6% of GDP amounts to more than $800 billion per year. The spending gap between the two nations is almost entirely because of higher overhead. Canadians don't need thousands of actuaries to set premiums or thousands of lawyers to deny care. Even the U.S. Medicare program has 80% to 90% lower administrative costs than private Medicare Advantage policies. And providers and suppliers can't charge as much when they have to deal with a single payer.

    Lessons No. 2 and 3:
    Single-payer systems reduce duplicative administrative costs and can negotiate lower prices.
    Because most of the difference in spending is for non-patient care, Canadians actually get more of most services. We see the doctor more often and take more drugs. We even have more lung transplant surgery. We do get less heart surgery, but not so much less that we are any more likely to die of heart attacks. And we now live nearly three years longer, and our infant mortality is 20% lower.
  • reno cool
    SBR MVP
    • 07-02-08
    • 3567

    #2
    Yes, but how much money do the insurance and drug companies make in Canada? After all, that is the primary reason to even have medicine. Get with the program. You guys aren't effectively fleecing the public at the proper rate.
    bird bird da bird's da word
    Comment
    • betplom
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 09-20-06
      • 13444

      #3
      Originally posted by reno cool
      Yes, but how much money do the insurance and drug companies make in Canada? After all, that is the primary reason to even have medicine. Get with the program. You guys aren't effectively fleecing the public at the proper rate.
      Reno, there is no comparison, the USA is all about making money - to the point where nothing else matters.

      I've heard that Republicans love their mothers - and I believe them, they don't love anyone elses mothers though, greed is more important.
      Comment
      • gomiamigo
        SBR Sharp
        • 08-07-08
        • 360

        #4
        It's funny, the Canadian system is supposed to be so great and yet their own Province websites will tell you that some patients have to wait 6-18 months for brain surgery in many parts of Canada. [Look it up.]

        That's after waiting to see their GP. And then *after* waiting for the referral to the Neurosurgeon.

        Of course costs are lower if you kill off people who are waiting in line. Most of us in the US tend to think that's far worse than not having quote-unquote 'insurance,' esp when the poor here are covered by Medicaid. I don't especially care to pay for illegal aliens HC either, that's another 13m of the 'uninsured.'

        Nice 5-month old article poast by OP, full of the usual half-truths, evasions, and outright lies. Avg life expectancy is a terrible way to measure anything, due to varying gene pools and risk of living in big cities in the US v Canada.

        BTW, Canada has to pay people to go to hospitals in Buffalo and Michigan to get care that they are unable to get in their own country. Sounds like an awesome system to me...

        Keep up the good work, America's Hat!
        Comment
        • reno cool
          SBR MVP
          • 07-02-08
          • 3567

          #5
          How many people in the US avoid seeing a doctor because they fear it will put them in financial jeopardy? A lot more than need brain surgery. It's all about keeping you ****s living in fear. And god forbid you're diagnosed with something. Who will cover you?
          Not to mention the prices are unreasonable.
          bird bird da bird's da word
          Comment
          • Justin7
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 07-31-06
            • 8577

            #6
            The US system is better for anyone making decent money, and terrible for anyone earning less than average money.

            Canada - everyone gets healthcare. It takes a lot longer to see specialists or get important surgeries (organ transplants, hip replacements).

            US - we screw poor people. They get a free ride in the ER if the ER can deal with it. If you're uninsured and have an expensive condition to treat (i.e. cancer or organ transplant), you're dead.

            It's a tough issue. I make decent money, and I'd rather pay for my own insurance, and "cut to the front of the line" rather than wait a year+ for a serious procedure.
            Comment
            • dogcity
              SBR High Roller
              • 09-13-09
              • 181

              #7
              If the US emulates the Canadian health system, patients will be truly f***ed. Yes the 'rumors' of wait times are very true. How many Americans with health coverage would respectfully wait 3-12 months or more for an MRI or referral to a specialist? Here in Atlantic Canada the wait time for orthopedic surgery is 2-3 years, unless it is an emergency situation or you have 'connections'. If you plan on blowing your knee out on the ski hill or in your weekly pick-up game...you will be hobbled for a very, very, very long time.

              People are literally having their lives ruined by the pathetic state of affairs in Canada. Check out the huge number of American facilities that are now tapping this market. The catch 22 is that Canadians don't have private plans-so they may be forced go to the States-pay out of pocket-then return to subsidize the 'vapor-world' Canadian system through huge taxes.
              Comment
              • denn333
                SBR MVP
                • 09-16-05
                • 1191

                #8
                oh, what to do.
                Comment
                • betplom
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 09-20-06
                  • 13444

                  #9
                  Originally posted by dogcity
                  If the US emulates the Canadian health system, patients will be truly f***ed. Yes the 'rumors' of wait times are very true.
                  Comment
                  • Chuck Sims
                    SBR MVP
                    • 12-29-05
                    • 3072

                    #10
                    Wealthy Canadians take a trip to the USA to get their healthcare. nuff said.

                    Take away the competition and free market, you'll end up with crap healthcare like you see in Canada and the UK.
                    Comment
                    • Chuck Sims
                      SBR MVP
                      • 12-29-05
                      • 3072

                      #11
                      betplom, the article is so biased, Michael Moore would be proud. All you have to do is look at the Hollywood actress who bumped her head when she fell down at some ski resort in Canada. Said she was fine and went about her business. Hours later when she started to have headaches was she taken to the hospital. There was no one there to help her as Canada is short on brain surgeons. She had a serious but easily treatable brain bruise. They airlift her 3 hours to the nearest brain surgeon, but it was too late. She died.

                      Why is Canada short on brain surgeons? Its called rationed care. Same thing will happen to the USA.
                      Comment
                      • dmtrader
                        SBR MVP
                        • 09-26-09
                        • 1320

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Justin7
                        The US system is better for anyone making decent money, and terrible for anyone earning less than average money.

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        It's a tough issue. I make decent money, and I'd rather pay for my own insurance, and "cut to the front of the line" rather than wait a year+ for a serious procedure.
                        Very sharp analysis (in a nutshell) of the U.S. health care situation.

                        I too pay for a so-called Cadillac plan, and don't want to wait for care with those who are subsidized.
                        Comment
                        • darrell74
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 04-16-07
                          • 14648

                          #13
                          As a former insurance agent, some of you are wrong.

                          Betplom is preaching gospel, compared to the rest of you.

                          "Wealthy Canadians go to the US for Health care?"
                          "...some patients have to wait 6-18 months for brain surgery."
                          "I'd rather pay for my own insurance and 'cut to the front of the line' ... "

                          All inaccurate.

                          Wealthy Canadians do not go to the US for a better doctor- that's just phuckin retarded.
                          Why! So they can get experimental surgery, which is illegal in the U.S.
                          Because the U.S is the forefront of medical research?-wrong
                          Plenty of European and far Eastern Asian countries have for more advanced medical research than Uncle Sam

                          patients wait 6-18 months for brain surgery, here just as they would in Canada
                          You get brain surgery when you can get it. When you get to the e.r., you wait like anybody else.
                          Other complex surgeries take donors, specialist to be found, and a complicated insurance process.
                          You wait here, you wait there.


                          Cut to the front of the line?
                          If you do, then you're the only one.
                          Any American that goes to the doctor's office, knows that doctors offices are stuffed with other patients at the same appointment times as you are-part of their money making process.
                          These aren't night clubs where you slip the doorman a$100 to get in the front of the line, these are doctor offices that make you wait.
                          I've brought wads of $100's, credit cards, insurance cards, and that never made my wait go shorter.
                          WTF are you guys talking about!!!

                          Betplom, keep speaking, you're the only guy that seems to make a ton of sense.

                          OBTW- if I was able to bet, I would bet nothing gets done in Congress, currently, about the Healthcare system.
                          My opinion of the Pres: looking like a bottom five, of all time. He can't seem to do shit.
                          Comment
                          • betplom
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 09-20-06
                            • 13444

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Chuck Sims
                            Wealthy Canadians take a trip to the USA to get their healthcare. nuff said.

                            Take away the competition and free market, you'll end up with crap healthcare like you see in Canada and the UK.
                            It's not the wealthy that need help.

                            The debate about health care reform has to do with the majority of citizens - those that are not wealthy.
                            Comment
                            • betplom
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 09-20-06
                              • 13444

                              #15
                              Originally posted by darrell74
                              Betplom, keep speaking, you're the only guy that seems to make a ton of sense.
                              I like you darrell, but the statement you made above will instantly make you despised by most of the "right-wing lunatics" that pollute this forum with propaganda and made up information.

                              Some will also think you are nuts for agreeing with me.

                              You're ok in my books.

                              PS: I merely provided information easily obtained on the internet using google.
                              I'm using information provided by others - people far more enlightened and educated than me.
                              This seems to infuriate certain posters.
                              Comment
                              • MJT1212
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 02-16-09
                                • 5124

                                #16
                                Blame Canada!!!
                                Comment
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