John or Bill...

[jay88]

Do you guys have a database of player that scam sportsbook..
We have had a couple of cases and it would be good for you guys to have the player first and last name just in case...
Mostly guys that pull back the money after they loose it.

[raiders72001]

Chargebacks?

[jay88]

They have pulled back western unions and moneygrams.

[SBR_John]

We do not. TheRx and MW have something that is mostly kept private I believe. SBR is a player advocate site. I realize there are bad eggs among the players but you will never see us maintain a negative list on players. That's not what we are about.

[jay88]

Don't you guys think that it would be good to have a list like that... Of course totally private.. Only you guys will have access to it...

[SBR_John]

Jay...no.
We watch and rate sportsbooks and we keep negative lists on sportsbooks. We do not watch players. Its a business 'line in the sand' that we are not going to cross.

A negative list for players is needed and we are not against one per se. But we would never directly support the effort.

[picantel]

how the hell can you pull back a western union deposit? once the money is picked up it is a goner. that is why ** is so popular with scammers and collection agencys(same thing really).

[jay88]

The transactions I just found out from the accounting department where done yestarday night by MoneyGram, when the banks were already closed. Today when they went for the funds the money was pulled back by the players.

[picantel]

but if you already picked up the money I do not see how they can pull it back as there is nothing to pull back. Are you saying you credited the player's account without actually picking the money hence they lost and saw it was not picked up and simply recalled it. IF so that is is poor money management.

[jay88]

It is not poor money management, it is good customer support in good faith...
If the bank is closed we can't pick up the moneygram and the players somehow planned it so that they would have time this morning to pull the money out before we did.

[picantel]

heh at least you know to cancel his account. the problem with offshore booking is nobody trusts nobody. I almost always take my withdrawals by ** because I do not trust bank transactions nor do I trust checks which can be stopped or bounced. At least when the cash is in my hand even with the hefty fee it is safe cash.

[natrass]

Jay, Im suprised. I would say it is perfectly fair to not credit a players account until you have the money ... indeed, you are seriously exposing yourself otherwise.

I know many bookies will have different timescales for when funds will appear in the account and no one can complain. If you want instant credit then surely the player has to provide the equivalent of an instant transacrion.

I am suprosed (but also very niaive ... so its probably not significant).

[slacker00]

Jay, Im suprised. I would say it is perfectly fair to not credit a players account until you have the money ... indeed, you are seriously exposing yourself otherwise.

I know many bookies will have different timescales for when funds will appear in the account and no one can complain. If you want instant credit then surely the player has to provide the equivalent of an instant transacrion.

I am suprosed (but also very niaive ... so its probably not significant).

I agree with natrass, Jay. It sounds like you are trying to be a nice guy, which is a good thing, but you are thus vulnerable to scammers who try to take advantage. Find other ways to be top-notch in customer service, which don't involve being swindled by money transaction scams.

[natrass]

Yeah, your leakages could go into reward schemes or even the dreaded bonuses. But giving it to thieves ... no one wants that.

[raiders72001]

Jay - The post up world is a whole different ball game. There are more scammers than books.

It's nice to have SBR fighting for the players but sometimes it's similar to a lawyer fighting for a client that he knows is guilty.

[tacomax]

The transactions I just found out from the accounting department where done yestarday night by MoneyGram, when the banks were already closed. Today when they went for the funds the money was pulled back by the players.

Any new business experiences a learning curve - just consider it a lesson learnt. Learning from these lessons and putting systems in place to prevent a reoccurance will equip you for the long term.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Bill Dozer]

We receive hundreds of emails and phone calls each week. A good chunk of these complaints never escalate beyond the dialogue between SBR and player. Sometimes the player realizes he doesn't have a valid complaint because he didn't understand the rules and sometimes the player is caught cheating by the book and wants to see if SBR can help him turn the cards back in his favor. I would speculate that the percentage of players attempting to use SBR for their undeserving advantage is as high if not higher as the undesirable players and scammers the books receive.

It's easy to spot the players who are just looking for leverage. They will leave out obvious key factors hoping we will immediately contact management. They hope a call will send a scare and shake their money from the tree.

We will continue to ask the player questions until we have his/her complete story less any opinions and conjecture. Books benefit from the defusing of the situation when the player is in the wrong or simply does not have an understanding of the situation.

Books are often thankful when we point out their mistakes and see us as an extension of their CS or quality control. Those that are in it for the long haul gladly accept their lumps when we report feedback or news relevant to potential customers. Conversely, a lot of players come to us first and thank us for clearing up the issue where they made an error, especially when they were about to search out the forums and go on a baseless crusade.

We will always use the facts and the legitimate house rules to decide where the case should lead. Books do not receive the complaint until we have a full understanding of what took place. We do not judge the player based on character and in almost all cases that player is welcome to turn to us in the future.

Raiders,

You know very well that if it worked like that we wouldn't have the open lines of communication we do and that wouldn't benefit either party.

[picantel]

hey taco do the Bush impression of fool me. Man that was a funny video. Maybe I will go look for it again.,

[picantel]

aha

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushfoolme.htm

[raiders72001]

You know very well that if it worked like that we wouldn't have the open lines of communication we do and that wouldn't benefit either party.

good point