Seeing as Europe is now the biggest supplier of trolls that post at SBR

[Razz]

You are showing your ignorance.

When you talk about the SAUDIS ONLY accepting EUROS for oil and pricing oil in a native currency of OIL, the impact is HUGE

But as you say, they are just 1 country
So now, maybe Venezuela will do the same.
Maybe Canada will do the same.

But hey, thats only 3 countries according to your logic ( which is clearly flawed )

Except that that is pure conjecture. Get back to me when these percentages are close:

World's reserve currency:
USD 65.7%
Euro 25.2%
Pound sterling 4.2%
Japanese yen 3.2%
Swiss franc 0.2%
Other 1.5%

Until there is at least a comparison in the top two percentages, thinking the Euro will be the standard bearer of world currency any time soon is foolish.

[Senator7]

They're just pissed because Bush made a joke about the Queen's age...

By the way, I don't know if this war is about oil or not. I would like to think it is not. But if it is, I would like to know when we're going to see the benefits of it because I paid almost $44 to fill up my car today.

[gotsteam]

Except that that is pure conjecture. Get back to me when these percentages are close:

World's reserve currency:
USD 65.7%
Euro 25.2%
Pound sterling 4.2%
Japanese yen 3.2%
Swiss franc 0.2%
Other 1.5%

Until there is at least a comparison in the top two percentages, thinking the Euro will be the standard bearer of world currency any time soon is foolish.

THE USD is at the lowest it has been since 1997

Now imagine what it is going to be in 10 more years!

Add the increasingly Anti US sentiment in the world ( at an all time high ) and it is only a matter of time.

The lower it goes, the faster it will diminish.

Now the EUR on the other hand was launched and immediately accounted for 17.9%
then rose as follows
18.8% year 2000
19.8% year 2001
24.2% year 2002
25.3% year 2003
24.9% year 2004
24.3% year 2005
25.2% year 2006


See a pattern developing??????

[gotsteam]

They're just pissed because Bush made a joke about the Queen's age...

By the way, I don't know if this war is about oil or not. I would like to think it is not. But if it is, I would like to know when we're going to see the benefits of it because I paid almost $44 to fill up my car today.

If the war was about oil, it is not about benefiting the people. It is about lining the pockets of the powers that be

[Razz]

THE USD is at the lowest it has been since 1997

Now imagine what it is going to be in 10 more years!

Add the increasingly Anti US sentiment in the world ( at an all time high ) and it is only a matter of time.

The lower it goes, the faster it will diminish.

Now the EUR on the other hand was launched and immediately accounted for 17.9%
then rose as follows
18.8% year 2000
19.8% year 2001
24.2% year 2002
25.3% year 2003
24.9% year 2004
24.3% year 2005
25.2% year 2006


See a pattern developing??????

Of course the pattern is obvious. The slight decline of the percentage of the world reserve - and it is very slight - is actually less than what one might think would happen when a legitimate competitive dollar is introduced. The Euro, while important, basically looks like it is going to hold steady around 25%. It does not appear ready to handle the bulk of the world's reserve. There was the one big spike in 2002, but other than that ... I'm not seeing why you think the USD and the Euro are not going to co-exist.

[Dark Horse]

The euro is already competing with the dollar for number one global currency, judging from the trust the Chinese place in the euro. Of course, the present US administration is doing untold damage to the dollar, but that damage can be undone.

Another major depression isn't too much of a stretch. The stock market is going through a very strange, some would say artificial, period of growth, and the gap between rich and poor is ever widening. I'm beginning to hear of people that can no longer afford to run their AC, because of the gas prices. Price gouching by oil companies and minimum wages with lessening buying power; not a good combination.

[gotsteam]

Of course the pattern is obvious. The slight decline of the percentage of the world reserve - and it is very slight - is actually less than what one might think would happen when a legitimate competitive dollar is introduced. The Euro, while important, basically looks like it is going to hold steady around 25%. It does not appear ready to handle the bulk of the world's reserve. There was the one big spike in 2002, but other than that ... I'm not seeing why you think the USD and the Euro are not going to co-exist.

Of course they will co exist, but the USD will continue to fall in both value and popularity ( naturally ), and the EURO will take over the number 1 position.

THE USD will never disappear completely as the US will also never disappear completely.

BUT the days of the USA dictating to the world due to its economic power are going to be come a thing of the past.

[ShamsWoof10]

Another major depression isn't too much of a stretch. The stock market is going through a very strange, some would say artificial, period of growth, and the gap between rich and poor is ever widening. I'm beginning to hear of people that can no longer afford to run their AC, because of the gas prices. Price gouching by oil companies and minimum wages with lessening buying power; not a good combination.

umm let's see here... yep ..yep... yep... and.... YEP!!! Markets is soaring and money is easier then ever but times are getting tougher for a great number of people as just the ONE example you mentioned... Any idea why..?

[Dark Horse]

There is only one reason, my friend, and that is greed.

We're 'about' to get past reliance on oil. Oil is running out, so the old order is squeezing is for every penny they can. Once we get past this dark chapter things should look up again, probably for a few centuries. The resourcefulness of America will soon be allowed to shine forth again, as we explore new and better ways. But a huge shift seldom comes without a crisis.

[ShamsWoof10]

We're 'about' to get past reliance on oil. Oil is running out, so the old order is squeezing is for every penny they can. Once we get past this dark chapter things should look up again, probably for a few centuries. The resourcefulness of America will soon be allowed to shine forth again, as we explore new and better ways. But a huge shift seldom comes without a crisis.

Well I don't think we are running out of oil and "Peak Oil" is nothing more then a scam... I am not saying that ONE of maybe a hundred reasons to why the US is in IRAQ isn't oil I am just saying it's not because the oil men want it... it's more because they don't want anyone else to have it... By "CONTROLLING" all of it or the major wells then they can create an artificial shortage...

In the 70's the shortage was not only artifical but regionalized and discoveries made at "Prudoe Bay" which makes SArabia look like a glass of water was ordered to remain untapped by "Atlantic Richfield" and this is one example... There are other oil companies who do or have done this and it's not just a US thing either so please don't anyone go there it's so idiotic... This artifical shortage adds up with testimony of people I have heard say they worked in what they called "PIPELINEING" claim that back in the 70's they were given a federal order to close down pipelines and nothing was wrong with them....

[isetcap]

Of course they will co exist, but the USD will continue to fall in both value and popularity ( naturally ), and the EURO will take over the number 1 position.

THE USD will never disappear completely as the US will also never disappear completely.

BUT the days of the USA dictating to the world due to its economic power are going to be come a thing of the past.

There is absolutely no legitimate economic evidence to support that "statement", but it sure is nice to know that there are so many currency experts here at the Sportsbook Forum.

There is truly no correlation between an entity's economic superiority and the strength/weakness of it's respective currency. Stability is really the only concern when it comes to currency. The US Federal Reserve has operated with a "weak dollar" policy for over a decade now and it has paid enormous dividends in terms of keeping US production high, job growth steady, unemployment low, and international investment brisk all during a time when several elements of the world and domestic landscape pointed to significant recessionary pressures. The primary tenant of this policy has been to keep the bank lending rate low thereby incentivizing investment. Keeping interest rates low for such long period of time will inherently devalue the currency because access is so much easier. Considering there is very little inflationary pressure at this time (remember the key importance of currency stability), the Fed really has no desire or incentive to create a stronger currency. If they wanted to they would jack interest rates up 2%, the US would suffer a significant depressionary period as would the rest of the world, there would be true class polarization, and the us dollar would be equitable to the euro. There would be riots in the streets but surely the people would feel better when you tell them that the currency is much stronger now even if everything else is worse!

I understand that oversimplifying an issue can often lead people to feel better about a situation or help them to think they understand what is taking place, but the real truth is that the US economy more than ever drives the world economy and US fiscal policy has created an infrastructure that will ensure this is the case well into the future. As it stands, I'm sure that you good folks over in the country of Europe, with your 35-hour work weeks and 50% income taxes, are far outpacing the US continent in terms of productivity. Not that productivity really has anything to do with economic superiority since many of you have so eloquently shown us how the arbitrary value of currency is the true measure of economic strength.

[Dark Horse]

Well I don't think we are running out of oil and "Peak Oil" is nothing more then a scam... I am not saying that ONE of maybe a hundred reasons to why the US is in IRAQ isn't oil I am just saying it's not because the oil men want it... it's more because they don't want anyone else to have it... By "CONTROLLING" all of it or the major wells then they can create an artificial shortage...

In the 70's the shortage was not only artifical but regionalized and discoveries made at "Prudoe Bay" which makes SArabia look like a glass of water was ordered to remain untapped by "Atlantic Richfield" and this is one example... There are other oil companies who do or have done this and it's not just a US thing either so please don't anyone go there it's so idiotic... This artifical shortage adds up with testimony of people I have heard say they worked in what they called "PIPELINEING" claim that back in the 70's they were given a federal order to close down pipelines and nothing was wrong with them....

Sounds plausible enough. Typical scam tactics. But it doesn't contradict the reality that oil is not in as endless a supply as the US dollars printed by the Federal Reserve; a private bank that charges interest for the privilege of printing paper. I, for one, hope that the oil wells run dry sooner than later. Probably better for the environment as well.

The US is in Iraq because that is part of the carefully orchestrated PNAC - Plan for the New American Century-, a neocon organization with a membership that will make the unsuspecting reader fall off his chair. The PNAC has close ties with AIPAC (in turn with close ties to the Mossad), which can buy any politician and smear the incorruptible (usually by accusations of antisemitism). These two organizations, with the help of the Mossad, were behind 9/11 and the ensuing 'war on terror', which serves US corporate and imperial interests, as well as the interests of Israel in the region. Everybody wins.

This is not a matter of America or Israel anymore. For instance, AIPAC sponsors both (the legal defense of) Israeli spies in US custody while maintaining close ties with US government. These organizations are part of a global financial network. It's a mess the likes of which this country has never seen. And most of the public doesn't have a clue, because none of the corporately sponsored media ask a single hard question.

The real terrorists live in Washington. They have betrayed America in every way possible.

[isetcap]

Generally the defining flaw of all conspiracy theories involving world politics is that they operate under that assumption that the world leaders involved are intelligent and courageous enough to concoct and implement such schemes. They do make perfect scripts for poor "documentaries" though.

[Dark Horse]

I just gave a summary of a study of many thousands of hours (of which I have since grown tired). If you want to brush that off the table in ten seconds as 'conspiracy theory', be my guest. All the same to me.

Let me assure you, however, that someone like Dick Cheney (PNAC member and welcome keynote speaker at AIPAC), dark and evil as he may be, is highly intelligent. And the neocons had been planning this coup for some thirty years.

[Senator7]

Generally the defining flaw of all conspiracy theories involving world politics is that they operate under that assumption that the world leaders involved are intelligent and courageous enough to concoct and implement such schemes. They do make perfect scripts for poor "documentaries" though.

This is a great point. I've spent a lot of time with people who make major decisions that impact this country. On average, they are not any more intelligent than you or I.

[Dark Horse]

True. Perhaps that is why the PNAC is a 'think tank'.

Just google them. As well as PNAC membership. Have fun.

Here's a start:

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/pnac.html

[ShamsWoof10]

DHorse the people in the forum for the most part are programmed to dismiss anything they find odd or strange as just that a "conspiracy theory".. GOD DAMN do I hate that word...

[pico]

my two cents

USD vs Euro debate(ignoring other currencies for now). if you're a country who does 50% of your trades with USA and 50% of your currencies with European Union, then your country will probably have around 50% reserve in USD and 50% reserve ub Euro. This is pretty inutitive and simple to understand. So if more countries trade with US then USD will have a higher percentage in the world's reserve.

Now here comes china. China bought a shit load of US treasury bonds...for political and economic reasons. China did this because US is their #1 trade partner and buying US treasury notes makes the US gov happy, thus more favorable trade policies. With a shitload of US treasury notes, China itself has driven the USD demand artifically high and the interest rate artifically low. So the "strong" dollar couple of years ago was just a bubble.

Yes, Bush is responsible because war cost money and resources...resources that could be used to make widgets. Loss in widget outputs means lower GDP. War money also means US has to borrow more money to finance it, thus drive up the interest rate. With high interest and low output, US economy is not as it used to be.

To be fair, the war is not totally bad for the economy. You should see it as an investment. War spending means more jobs for the military contracted companies and if give more US interest in the middle east. If US is successful, these investments will payoff later...sort like gambling. But i think the odds of paying off for the US is +1000 at this point.

Here is to answer your question, which currency will be #1 in the future? I think USD will continue to be #1. Because whoever has the biggest gun has the final say...and the US has a way bigger gun than the entire EU. Unless US cease to be the #1 military power in the world, USD will be #1.

[ShamsWoof10]

The US is in Iraq because that is part of the carefully orchestrated PNAC - Plan for the New American Century-, a neocon organization with a membership that will make the unsuspecting reader fall off his chair. The PNAC has close ties with AIPAC (in turn with close ties to the Mossad), which can buy any politician and smear the incorruptible (usually by accusations of antisemitism). These two organizations, with the help of the Mossad, were behind 9/11 and the ensuing 'war on terror', which serves US corporate and imperial interests, as well as the interests of Israel in the region. Everybody wins.

This is not a matter of America or Israel anymore. For instance, AIPAC sponsors both (the legal defense of) Israeli spies in US custody while maintaining close ties with US government. These organizations are part of a global financial network. It's a mess the likes of which this country has never seen. And most of the public doesn't have a clue, because none of the corporately sponsored media ask a single hard question.

The real terrorists live in Washington. They have betrayed America in every way possible.

Well you are as close to on the money as anyone has been on this forum anyway.... I know you want to say it... SAY IT!!! WORLD GOVERNMENT DAMN IT!!! It's about Global Government, Global economy, Global currency, Global everything.... The NFL is even thinking about taking a pre season game out to replace it with an additional regular season game to be played ABROAD to promote the NFL...

PNAC (1999) with Dicky C. and Donny Rums. is a legit point but relative to all that is in play only a minute one... There is a reason the Neo Cons want IRAQ and the middle east and that is to regionalize it as the black pussy pointed out last year... "THE NEW MIDDLE EAST "...Condy Rice and as she specified it will be the EU of the middle east... If you continue to look into the plans for the development of world governemt you'll see that Jerusilum is picked to be the capital of this new world so they have to clean up the area some to prep it for it's coming title... Now mind you this is going to take a long time maybe 100 years before it comes together but if enough capitalist pig.'s sons participate and fools like JJ buy into 9-11 being done by Osama Bin Ladin<<media creation then this should be a piece of cake...


"The US Federal Reserve has operated with a "weak dollar" policy for over a decade now and it has paid enormous dividends in terms of keeping US production high, job growth steady, unemployment low, and international investment brisk all during a time when several elements of the world and domestic landscape pointed to significant recessionary pressures. The primary tenant of this policy has been to keep the bank lending rate low thereby incentivizing investment. Keeping interest rates low for such long period of time will inherently devalue the currency because access is so much easier. Considering there is very little inflationary pressure at this time (remember the key importance of currency stability), the Fed really has no desire or incentive to create a stronger currency. If they wanted to they would jack interest rates up 2%, the US would suffer a significant depressionary period as would the rest of the world, there would be true class polarization, and the us dollar would be equitable to the euro. There would be riots in the streets but surely the people would feel better when you tell them that the currency is much stronger now even if everything else is worse!"

I mean that sounds all college and cute but you can't be serious here... The last decade jobs have been lost at a higher and higher rate... MILLIONS!!! There has been nothing but inflation (the creation of money) US production high..? There has been outsourcing at an insane rate... I can't call customer service for anything and get someone who can speak english... Yeah let the fed raise rates 2% and watch the housing market fall out of bed in record time.... DHorse if you know about PNAC then you know about the AMERO...

[Dark Horse]

DHorse the people in the forum for the most part are programmed to dismiss anything they find odd or strange as just that a "conspiracy theory".. GOD DAMN do I hate that word...

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Over the years I've -gradually- convinced many a skeptic of the high treason by the US government. Not one of those friends went back to their old views. Many of them told others. The pen is mightier than the sword.

(One of my brothers in arms is a college professor and author of six or seven books; a far more radical thinker than I am. We used to talk about this all the time. Plus I have nobody left in my direct vicinity who believes this government, so it's always refreshing to have critics. )

[magnavox]

Edit

[RickySteve]

Like Iraqi civilian casualties?

hahaha

[sickler]

[tacomax]

Some clown is predicting the Euro as the global monetary unit and the US to have a period worse than the Great Depression. At some point, you just stop taking them seriously.

That clown wasn't far off in retrospect.

[fiveteamer]

Hahaha, Razz, you did not make it with that comment.