For the high rollers? Cashing a check over $10,000

[boojah]

I'm pretty sure not everyone here pays or reports their taxes and was wondering if depositing a check into my bank in the US, will the bank report the deposit, excess of $10,000, to the IRS? I have a good paying job and pay taxes on that but I happen to make good money betting as well and don't wish to pay taxes or raise any eye brows. Do those of you high rollers are you experiencing any problems or hassles from the government or should I always withdraw in amounts less than $10,000 like say $7,000 every week?

When I win big at vegas they ask for Social Security #'s and such which I never give them the real #'s and just spend the money freely. But now that I'm trying it online what do you guys do?

Thanks

[Sean]

The total dollar figure of a single transaction (i.e. $10,000+) is not the sole determining factor with regards to a financial institution's reporting requirements. The Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) requires, among other things, that a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) be filed if a customer's actions/transactions indicate the possibility of violating money laundering statutes or any other federal criminal law. See here for more info >>

IMO, players should report all gaming proceeds (offshore and/or "brick and mortar") accurately. Personally, I feel that gamblers have more to fear from the IRS than any other agency.

[Korchnoi]

I've taken out a lot of cash from the bank on several occasions and deposited some cash back. All transactions under $10K. I definitely took out more than I put back in and although I shuffle some money around, I'm not up that much (and I do pay taxes on what I make, it's usually a small amt of misc income). Do I have a legal responsibility to keep detailed records? Gambling represents less than 5% of my income so it's peanuts both relatively speaking and in actual dollar terms.

[louis]

Just deposit the check for over $10,000

It is not illegal to deposit checks for over $10,000. The bank will report it, and the IRS will have another report on top of the millions they have received so far. The IRS is simply flooded with paper work with these reports.

I recently bought a car for over $10,000, and sure enough the dealer filed a report. Do you know how many reports the IRS receives? One, two or three reports per year of transactions over $10,000 won't get you an audit.

If you decide to deposit two checks, for example $6000 each in order to avoid the report, you can be charged with structuring which is illegal. Trying to avoid having a report done is illegal, even if you have done nothing else illegal.

By the way, your net win from gambling is taxable. You must keep a journal of wins and losses.

[operaman]

Short answer,

Keep your tansactions at 4k or less for the lowest profile.

Don't sweat it if you go over this amount, the IRS is blind deaf and dumb.

[chano]

I'm pretty sure not everyone here pays or reports their taxes and was wondering if depositing a check into my bank in the US, will the bank report the deposit, excess of $10,000, to the IRS? I have a good paying job and pay taxes on that but I happen to make good money betting as well and don't wish to pay taxes or raise any eye brows. Do those of you high rollers are you experiencing any problems or hassles from the government or should I always withdraw in amounts less than $10,000 like say $7,000 every week?

When I win big at vegas they ask for Social Security #'s and such which I never give them the real #'s and just spend the money freely. But now that I'm trying it online what do you guys do?

Thanks

Sounds like aquestion someone from the Feds may ask. He has joined recent , I would beware.

[marc]

if it was a cash deposit, that would be one thing, check deposits don't get flagged. I've been making numerous check deposits in excess of 10k over the past few years and to my knowledge at least no reposrts have been filed.

The thing to remember though if the IRS ever does audit you, the first thing they will do is look at your bank statements and question you about any large deposits

[operaman]

Sounds like aquestion someone from the Feds may ask. He has joined recent , I would beware.

You know for a fact the irs is monitoring this site?

[louis]

They don't tell you they made a report

Marc, the bank doesn't tell you if they issue a report. If you made a check deposit of over $10,000, the law says the bank must file a report.

It is automated, and not even the teller that took the deposit knows.

[Sean]

... check deposits don't get flagged.

False.

[chano]

You know for a fact the irs is monitoring this site?

No, I do not know for a fact. But you dont need facts to be cautious.

[vanzack]

There is so much bad advice on message boards its scary.

The 10K threshold means NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. If you walk in to 7-11 with 10K in cash they file the form. It is not filed for CHECKS, only CASH.

Your cumulative income is what the IRS is interested in, and what you should be interested in. Its very simple. The amount you win is INCOME.

It doesnt matter if that income is 7K at a time, 2K at a time, 20 cents at a time, or in one lump sum of 200K. The number that it adds up to is the number you need to declare as income, and if you dont you are in violation of the tax code.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is foolish and wrong. Anyone who speculates on your chances of getting caught is foolish and wrong. Anyone who tells you how to get away with it is foolish and wrong.

You are playing a lottery. Plain and simple.

[WWTSblows]

Transactions under 4k can still have a SAR filled out on them also. Structuring your payouts to stay under a certain level can get you in trouble also. I would assume though, most that they can't investigate even close to every SAR and is probably used more if they were investigating you for something else and ran a check to see if any SAR's were in your name. There will be risk, however chances are you won't get busted. That probably holds true for every time someone cheats on their taxes, though.

Cliff notes: Pay taxes on your winnings and sleep at night.

[Sean]

There is so much bad advice on message boards its scary.

Agreed vanzack ... that's the nature of the "beast" though with regards to open forums.

Here are some external resources for more information on this topic:

• Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN)

• US Code Collection - Cornell Law School
>> see: Laundering of Monetary Instruments
>> see: Monetary Transactions ... Unlawful Activity

Not exactly light reading, but accurate information nonetheless.

[hugmoney]

From the IRS site - the real rules about $10,000

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=159755,00.html

[MBENZ]

Apparently chano is the only one not wearing blinders.

[Cyclone]

Misinformation Indeed

I would agree that there is a lot of misinformation here. Technically, the CTRs go to FinCEN, and not the IRS. The IRS does have access to the information, however. Yes, they are flooded with millions of reports, and most are simply scanned into the database and forgotten. A CTR is only filed for CURRENCY transactions involving $10,000 or more. Checks, wires, and other such transactions are not reported on a CTR. The bank will ask for your information to complete a CTR. (They have to, the form asks for your name, driver's license number, occupation, etc). The bank is not supposed to tell you if they file an SAR. If you're worried, currency transactions under $4000 are usually ignored, unless you are doing a lot of them.

[Scorpion]

http://www.answers.com/topic/bank-secrecy-act

[pags11]

thanks for the info. sean and vanzack...

[marke4]

You guys are worrying about something that isn't really a problem. Believe me, if the IRS wanted to come after you for not filing online winnings your pretty much screwed unless you have taken extreme precautions.. Such as mailing cash to your bookie/online account via fedex and getting cash mailed back, or prepaid debit cards mailed back, or pay the good old 12% cashing check fee at any of those shady check cashing hubs. Remember the IRS is a gov't agency, but unlike most gov't agencies the IRS is a for profit agency. Unless they believe they will get far more in back taxes from you then it will cost to do a full investigation they won't waste their time. Unless you will owe something like 100K in back taxes you have nothing to worry about, and if you would owe more than 100K in back taxes due to your winning then GOOD FOR YOU!!! You should be proud of yourself.

[boojah]

Thank you all for your replies, I appreciate the knowledge and insight you guys have provided. I understand that this is a sensitive subject but I needed to hear what others in my situation have to say. To Chano, I joined this forum after my sportsbook started changing its ways and came here to look for a new/better one. Also checks cashing places do file the form if the check is over $10,000, I have tried it before and deposited into my bank couple years ago. After this thread I have decided to report some of my winnings but not all of it.

Thanks again everyone for your help. If you have more information to post please do, the more the better.

[increasedodds]

It is not illegal and the IRS does not audit you for depositing $10000+ I prob have 100 forms filed about me... The IRS looks at your return vs forms and if you claim $20k in income, but move $10k 10 times, they wonder...

Sean

[boojah]

increasedodds, that is good to hear and makes me a little relieved. How much do you claim on your taxes for you to deposit so much and not get red flagged? Thanks

[increasedodds]

I will claim low six figures from real work this year and about the same gambling in years past (Will be basically $0 for 2007 as it it now... but could be replaced by real estate) I had another business entity involving ticket sales for concerts and promotions fail miserably because a credit card processor thought we were selling hookers and locked up all our funds. I end up taking a loan to cover at horribly wrong times and lost several hundred large from 2004-2006, and that amount basically wiped out the gambling winnings, but it is all reported.

I've probably taken $10,000-30,000 out and deposited of BOA and Wachovia and Citi in cash 20 times and taken cashiers checks another 20 to the Bellagio. I brought $51,000 back from Atlantis as a check once... EVerytime, I fill out the form, but so far no audits. Of note, BOA takes about an hour to give you $20k. Wachovia and Citi about 5 minutes. You can guess which account I no longer have.

My only audit ever was about 6-8 years ago when it took the IRS 6 months to figure out I paid my medical school instead of vice versa.

The key with the IRS is being reasonable. If you report $20k in income, but take $20k to the casino, they will wonder. If you report $150k, they prob dont care about $20k...If you report $200,000 but have 7 mortgages, they are gonna wonder. A friend at the IRS, told me that mortgages are the biggest way they get you. Most mortgages are federally backed by Ginnarmae or FannieMae or those other federal agencies. It is incredibly easy for the IRS to see $10,000 in mortgages/month and $10,000 in claimed income. My businesses (Gambling, and other) probably reported over $500,000 in transactions each of the last 3 years. I send them an excel spreadsheet and a copy of my bank statement. They seem happy with it.

ANd I am a small time gambler. There are lots of them making into 7 figures...

Boojah, I should add, I am red flagged by the bank, but that does not mean you get audited. It just means a fax goes to the IRS. In my case, the IRS will prob wonder why the faxes arent coming as much this year.

The law says:

If you move $10000 in cash in a day, the bank must report it to the IRS.
If you move about $10000 in a way to circumvent ($8000 one day, $8000 the next, etc) the bank must report to the IRS.
If you move $5000 and the bank is supsicious (Does not know where it came from, you joke you sold drugs, whatever) the bank must report to the IRS and the federalies.
If the bank is suspicious of anything they must report to the federalies.

Banks are shitting bricks right now. The IRS will get over 1 billion reports this year. Basically they collect dust.

It is not illegal to move $ 1 billion. You just get reported. Bill Gates can walk in and take out $1billion in cash (Provided he calls ahead so the bank can order the money and he has a big enough truck) He will get reported but that does not make him a criminal.
-Sean

[increasedodds]

Google Bank CTR and Bank Sars (Suspicious activity reports) for the exact laws.

Sean