JFC
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Bro Phil Jackson had Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, the two best players of all time. I could win multiple rings coaching those guys, without any nba experience. Sure Jackson was a great coach, but coaching doesn't win championships, players do.
What has Greg Popovic done since Tim Duncan retired? Absolutely nothing. 0 finals appearances before Duncan, 0 after. Hasn't even sniffed the playoffs last several years. There's only so much a coach can do, that's what SBR nerds who don't play sports don't understand.
What has Bellichick done since Brady left? If Brady is just a puppet, then why can't Bellichick build a new puppet?
Tired of these discussions. I argued with everyone that Bellichick would be a shit on without Brady, and Brady would win without him.
I won all those arguments.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
In another year Lebron will be like - No one beats father time. Focker will almost be 40.
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How many rings did Phil win without Jordan and Kobe? Why did he retire suddenly when he sensed the end of Kobe's career was coming? Because the guy knew he would never find another Kobe or Jordan. He'd have to hit the jackpot 3 times and he knew it wouldn't happen. He wanted to keep his reputation as the goat coach in check.
How come pop can't even take his squad to the playoffs, if he's so great? The Spurs have been the laughing stock of the nba for years. The guy has a first round pick every year, and they all amount to nothing. Now of course the lottery finally got rigged for Pop to get what they are saying is the greatest prospect since James. Because if he gets anyone else, then he has another abysmal season.
Bellichick's career record without Brady is absolutely pitiful. There is a massive sample size too. Brady without Bill went to the playoffs 3 times in 3 years and took the most irrelevant franchise of the past 2 decades to a superbowl title.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
How have they been a laughingstock ?
This is the first year they finished bottom of the league in 25 years. Spurs were still making the play-in tournament with a roster full of bums and DeJonte Murray as their best player. How did they finish ahead of your favorite guy Russell Westbrook and the Lakers last year ?
And every team has a first round pick. What is that supposed to mean ???
Spurs pick mid to late in the 1st round every year because they overachieve. There's hardly anyone good available after the lottery
Who's the last good player picked late in the 1st round? Has to be Murray... and he was picked by the Spurs !!Comment -
I don't like westbrook. Westbrook dominated the playoffs. Lakers are losers. They think anthony davis is a top 75 player of all time. Spurs have been a laughing stock. Have they done anything without Duncan? No. What did they do with Derozan in his prime and Aldridge still around his prime? Nothing. Zero.
Players win championships. Not coaches. Frank Voegel won a ring with the Lakers. He blows. Bellichick's record without Brady is atrocious, and there's a massive sample size, both before and after.
Phil Jackson left the Bulls for the Lakers when Jordan retired. Why? Why didn't he stick around? Cause he knew Jordan was done. When Kobe was at the end of his prime, Jackson left again.
It's amazing how ppl on this site think coaches and refs control if the ball goes in or out of the hoop. Denver is on the road to glory right now not cause of Malone. It's because Murray wanted to prove to the world he was a top 10 player in the world, and Jokic wanted to show that he can get it done in the postseason. It has nothing to do with Michael Malone. You can replace him with a dozen other coaches and the results would be the same.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
If you replaced Michael Malone with Nike Nurse on Denver, and say he was there for just as long and built that comradarie, would the team not be in the finals? If you replaced him with Udoka, or Pop, or Spoelstra, or a dozen other coaches, would Denver not be in the same spot? Who is carrying the nuggets? Is it Malone or is it Murray and Jokic? If you replace Jokic with Anthony Davis and kept Malone, would the Nuggets be in the finals? No. The Lakers would. If the Lakers had Jokic, and the Nuggets had Davis, Lakers would be in the finals. So there goes yours and MIT's theory.
Like I said in my original post, not saying you nash, but most of sbr is a bunch of nerds who never played sports in their lives. Funnily enough this article is published by MIT, the school of all nerds.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Nobody except you is making the discussion about coaches winning championships without players. No coach can win if your roster is filled with terrible players. This isn't breaking news
A great coach will do BETTER and the team will achieve MORE than if a mediocre coach was coaching. This is common sense and I can't believe it even has to be said but for some reason, your barometer for what makes a coach a good coach is whether he can win a championship without superstars
And you think DeRozan and Aldridge compare to the likes of Curry, LeBron, Durant, Leonard, etc. ????Comment -
The whole point you keep missing is that coaches bring SOME VALUE to the team. It's not enough to where it can overcome a massive talent disparity but if all other things are equal, some coaches are better than others. This is the most obvious fact and such common sense it's almost hard to believe you don't understand itComment -
I'm not saying I don't agree with that, I do. Coaches of course bring value. But you got Lakerboy on here always talking about coaches in his writeups and very rarely talking about actual players. I'm simply saying Malone is a good coach, but there are a dozen others in the nba that can do the same job and lead them to glory. I think that's definitely true, I can name 12 coaches right now off the top of my head who could get it done with that squad. So if your job can be replicated by that many other people, then how valuable are you, really? There's probably only 2 pgs in the world better than murray, curry and lillard, and there's no player, period, better than Jokic.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
No but Spoelstra has the heat on the brink of the finals with Jimmy B and bam, and that's not horribly different than Demar and Lemarcus during those years. If Pop was that amazing, he could take a pretty ok team deep in the playoffs. Like I said about Frank Vogel, none of the Lakers players listened to him. At all. This was well documented. He was a loser. They won that ring on the back of Lebron James, and because Kobe died obviously and somehow the universe and NBA just shifted towards them. Vogel was a puppet that could be replaced by anyone.
Phil Jackson winning 11 rings with the 2 best players of all time doesn't make him a god. A lot of coaches would do the same and would kill for that opportunity.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
WHAT ???
Murray is not that good. He's not better than Doncic, Morant, Trae Young, probably a few others too if we include SGs because Murray isn't really much of a passer anyway
As for coaches being replaceable, you're again oversimplifying it. If you agree that coaches bring value, then you want to have the best coach possible to get the most value possible right ??? Yes Denver will probably win it this year but nothing is ever a guarantee. You want the coach that adds the most possible value to give you the best chance to win. It's really simple. It's no different than filling out your roster. You want the best available players you can get. The coach is no differentComment -
Doncic isn't a pg, he's a SF. Morant? WHat has he ever done? nothing. Trae Young is now here near murray. Murray is better than every player you named defensively. His defensive play on James single handedly won them game 4 for the sweep. Morant, Trae Young would never in a million years make that play. The guy is just clutch too. His shooting percentages are always high. He rarely turns the ball over. There is no pg in the world better than Murray besides Curry and Lillard. The other guys you named are proven losers, not winners.
Look at Boston bro. They just plugged in a 33 yr old coach into that position, a guy with basically no experience, and they're doing pretty much the same thing they did last year. The only reason they haven't reached the finals is because the players themselves have taken a step back. Jalen Brown has taken a step back from last year. Jason Tatum isn't a superstar. He's a hot and cold player who goes for 50 one night then travels on 3 plays IN A ROW the next game. Is that on the coach? They literally just plugged a random guy to fill that seat in boston and he's doing the same shit udoka did last year. There are million ppl just like Mazulla too.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Well isn't that exactly the point ?? Spoelstra IS a great coach. That's why he has the Heat on the brink of the finals this year. And hopefully, you didn't forget he also made the finals in 2020 with mostly the same players. Do you really think Doc Rivers would have done the same ???
As far as Popovich, those are your arbitrary standards. I'm of the opinion DeRozan and Aldridge are not players you can do much with. Spoelstra wouldn't get them any further than Popovich did especially when the West was as good as it was at the timeLast edited by asiagambler; 05-27-23, 05:04 PM.Comment -
Del Harris had basically the same team that Phil came in and coached. Del didn't win shit. Coaches matter especially when you have a shitty one.Comment -
What has Murray ever done for you to elevate him to the status of Curry and Lillard ???
Who cares what position these guys are listed as. They are all similar players and they are all comparable based on their scoring ability. And don't act like Doncic doesn't run the offense and is the de facto point guard for his team either
I see Murray as more of a Donovan Mitchell calibre player. I'm not saying he's terrible but he's just a star, not a superstar. He's not the best of the best and he clearly benefits a lot playing with Jokic
By the way, it was Aaron Gordon that blocked James at the end of Game 4, not MurrayComment -
Lol so Phil Jackson entered the picture right when Kobe started to enter superstardum, but Del Harris had to wait for a 17 yr old kid to develop. Coincidence? Coincidence that Phil Jackson left in 2011, right after Kobe failed to 3 peat a second time and you could start seeing the wear and tear on his body? Didn't Phil Jackson also leave the Lakers after that 2004 meltdown by the Lakers when Kobe and Shaq hated each others? I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson left for a year, because he knew the Lakers would be trash. Then I'm pretty sure he almost left again around 06 because their second best player was lamar odom lol. All this doesn't seem suspicious to you for a man trying to protect his legacy? The guy ended up going to New York and couldn't build a championship team to save his life.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
He's much better than Mitchell. No man, it was Murray who had his hand on the ball the entire time James was driving. Gordon just got the cleanup block at the end after Murray had totally disrupted James' rhythm and James could barely control the ball as he was going up. Rewatch the play. If Murray isn't there and it's just one on one with James and Gordon, that's a guaranteed made layup. Aaron Gordon ain't blocking James's shot 1 on 1 with no help to win the game. Not in this universe.What has Murray ever done for you to elevate him to the status of Curry and Lillard ???
Who cares what position these guys are listed as. They are all similar players and they are all comparable based on their scoring ability. And don't act like Doncic doesn't run the offense and is the de facto point guard for his team either
I see Murray as more of a Donovan Mitchell calibre player. I'm not saying he's terrible but he's just a star, not a superstar. He's not the best of the best and he clearly benefits a lot playing with Jokic
By the way, it was Aaron Gordon that blocked James at the end of Game 4, not Murray
What has Murray done? Well he averaged 33 ppg in the western conference finals on 50-40-90 basically. With limited turnovers. With stellar defense. With the Lakers switching their lineup how many times in the series to try and control him? Russell, vanderbilt, shroeder. He obliterated anything Darvin Hamm tried, another reason why great players can destroy any good coaching. If you want to say Doncic is a pg which he's not, fine. Doncic is like Lebron. He's a PG. Lebron runs the offense too and has been doing it his entire career. I don't think he's as good as curry or lillard right now, but in 2 years murray will be the best pg in the nba. He's 6'5 and no one can block the guy's shot. He shoots from 3, he shoots from midrange, he takes it to the rack. Morant can't shoot midrange js, or 3s. All he does is give you instagram explosive plays and everyone gets hard for him. Big deal, you dunked over someone. 2 points is 2 points. Trae Young? He's not even in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. He's the biggest defensive liability on the court at all times.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Phil was most certainly self serving in the later part of his career. It doesn't change the fact that he won 11 rings and succeeded where others couldn't or didn't.
The New Yok thing was a money grab and the Dolans are idiots who got took.Comment -
I agree with you on Murray though. He's a freakin stud.Comment -
The big difference though is that Morant and Young are the #1 guys on their team. They are the Batmans. Murray is the Robin
Yes he made a nice play on James but come on man. He just reached in a little and tied him up. Hardly anything spectacular about it. It sounds like you're elevating it to the status of James chasedown block on Igoudala or something lolComment -
Just saying a lot of pgs would never step in front of a 275 pound James to make that play. You know that as well as anyone. The guy just has a will to win that you're underestimating and instead favoring these flashier guys, but he'll make a lot of people eat their words by the time his career is over imoCause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
He's a great player. As much as he does benefit from playing with Jokic, it also probably prevents him from showcasing just how good he can be as well. But my opinion is that he's not a guy that can be the #1 guy on a team and lead them to a championship or at least contend on the same level as the other players we've discussedComment -
Funny you should mention that Goater, I played HS and D2 baseball (catcher) and wrestled 158 lbs in HS, 170 lbs in college.
I'm 5' 8" (barely), a fireplug, you know, with a center of gravity around my ankles, so I wasn't big enough for hoops or football.
I majored in computer science, and continued with it after I graduated.
Point being, I'm a hybrid jock/numbers nerd geek.
I've always been analytics guy, I've been a, and still am a Bill James/Billy Beane disciple.
I'm old school meets new school guy however, big on going by the book in situational matchups, you know lefty v. right handed pitcher, etc.
However, I have no problem with a manager riding a hot bat, for instance, if my power hitter is on a tear lately, but he can't hit a lick usually against a curve ball throwing lefty, if he's on a current tear, I'll let him rip against that lefty and flush the 'book' down the toilet.
I read the late, great Earl Weaver's bio some years ago, he had an interesting answer to the writers question when asked "How many wins in a season is a good manager worth vs. a bad manager"?
Weaver said about five wins.Comment
