Roger Clemens vs Pedro Martinez

**pologq** · 02-10-23, 10:19 AM

tough poll

**JMobile** · 02-10-23, 10:29 AM

Pedro since Clemens was on roids

**pologq** · 02-10-23, 10:39 AM

slayer this poll might shock the world

**Auto Donk** · 02-10-23, 10:45 AM

i'll take a roided up, hgh'd clemens over pedro........

all natural, hard to day......

**theboss4018** · 02-10-23, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by slayer14

Who was the better pitcher for you, we need this solved.

A couple of my favorites being from Boston.
Clemens probably due to length of career and some.....synthetic assistance
Pedro is probably the best pitcher I've ever seen over a 5 year span!

**pologq** · 02-10-23, 11:22 AM

i chose clemens. give me the bat flinging juice head.

pedro was damn good as well.

**stevenash** · 02-10-23, 12:22 PM

Pedro, and it's not as close as you think it is.

Forget my fancy sabermetrics and analytics for the time being.
Forget wins because Clemens pitched for 24 seasons, Pedro, 18.

Pedro was both the better control and power pitcher.
Want proof?

Clemens on the average for his career struck out 8.8 per game, Pedro, 10.0
WH/IP ratio, which is the metric we use for determining how many baserunners are allowed by a pitcher per game.
Walks + Hits / Innings Pitched.
Clemens 1.17, Pedro 1.05

And my and your grandpa's favorite metric, the ERA
Clemens 3.05, Pedo 2.91

What we have here when you add it all together is Pedro was the better power pitcher while giving up less baserunners all allowing fewer runs to score to boot.

My guy was, and always will be Mike Mussina, but the pecking order goes like this in that generation.

Pedro
Unit
Maddux
Clemens
Moose.

That's my opinion, and like assholes, everybody has one.

**Snowball** · 02-10-23, 12:40 PM

I thought Pedro was better

but there is no truth except sometimes Roger was and sometimes Pedro was.

**allabout the $$$** · 02-10-23, 12:53 PM

pedro by far. to do what he did during the steroid era with no extra help.

guy had under a 2.5 era 5 times in his career during that era. absolutely amazing. top it off the guy weighed like 170 soaking wet

maddux also was a monster.

maddux and pedro would have been a tougher debate

**VeggieDog** · 02-10-23, 12:56 PM

Roger.

**str** · 02-10-23, 12:57 PM

I picked Pedro.

But lets get real, I would gladly take the loser of this poll.

**manny24** · 02-10-23, 01:12 PM

Pete Martin not close

**trobin31** · 02-10-23, 02:41 PM

Pedro had the control of Maddux with spin and speed of Clemens.

Clemens was so juiced up, both times I saw him pitch, with Yankees and Astros, he was so amped up on something it looked like he was foamy from the side of his mouth along with facial flushing. I am surprised he never had a heart attack out there and hope he is getting healthy.

**slayer14** · 02-10-23, 03:28 PM

Clemens is living a decent life for a 60 year old

**big joe 1212** · 02-10-23, 04:27 PM

Pedro much more talented

Clemons was built on steroids

**Mike Huntertz** · 02-10-23, 04:42 PM

Clemons juiced as much as Balco Barry. His ass was said to look like a dart board. Phucked up attitude to match the roids.
Pedro awesome pictcher, nice guy and didn't cheat.
Who's baseball card do you get for your kids?

**theboss4018** · 02-10-23, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by big joe 1212

Pedro much more talented

Clemons was built on steroids

Clemens was great before the juice like Bonds

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 02-10-23, 06:35 PM

Love Pedro. But my answer: Clemens, based on longevity.

If you ask about peak years, I'll take Pedro 1999/2000 over any Clemens BB years.

Also, Pedro would tire more after 100 pitches. So, better have a good reliever ready.

**d2bets** · 02-10-23, 06:43 PM

Pedro better in his prime. But obviously career-wise, Clemens had the better career.

So it depends what we're judging here.

**stevenash** · 02-10-23, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

If you ask about peak years, I'll take Pedro 1999/2000 over any Clemens BB years.

Also, Pedro would tire more after 100 pitches. So, better have a good reliever ready.

Pedro made 400 career starts, threw 2800 innings.
Clemens, 700 starts, 4900 innings.
(the stats have been rounded, but damn near close to accurate)

400x7=2800
700x7=4900

Each pitcher made almost exactly 7.0 innings per start.

**lakerboy** · 02-10-23, 09:17 PM

Clemens was better. I judge a starting pitcher based on how long he can go in a 9 inning game. Clemens was better at that.

**19th Hole** · 02-10-23, 09:39 PM

Clemens with the bloody sock.

**allabout the $$$** · 02-11-23, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Clemens was better. I judge a starting pitcher based on how long he can go in a 9 inning game. Clemens was better at that.

How can you say that when in the post above yours the stats shows they both pitched an average of 7 innings per game

**lakerboy** · 02-11-23, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by allabout the $$$

How can you say that when in the post above yours the stats shows they both pitched an average of 7 innings per game

Clemens completed 5.67 games per season.
Martinez completed 3.53 games per season.

Right there im getting over two more games from him in a season. Clemens also pitched 57 more outs per season then Pedro.

**stevenash** · 02-11-23, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Clemens completed 5.67 games per season.
Martinez completed 3.53 games per season.

Right there im getting over two more games from him in a season. Clemens also pitched 57 more outs per season then Pedro.

Clemens pitched in 709 career games, of which 707 were starts.
Clemens pitched a total of 4916.67 innings, of which 4915.0 were made in starts.
When you divide 4915 by 707 you get 6.95 innings per start.
(I rounded up and called it an even seven).

Pedro pitched in 1993, Pedro's first full season in MLB he pitched in 65 games, 63 in relief, in '93 Pedro was almost exclusively a middle innings reliever.

The original post I was responding to was comparing Pedro to Clemens as a carrier starter and starter only.
So I discounted the only season he didn't start (in 1993 he made two starts in 65 appearances, so I discounted that season)

From 1994 onward, Pedro was an exclusive rotation starter.
From 1994 onward Pedro made 406 starts in 409 appearances, and of those 406 starts he pitched a total of 2709.3 innings.

When you divide 2709.3 into 406 you get 6.67 innings per start.
Difference of 0.28 innings per start.

It's what we call in the geek business a statistical dead heat.

No matter how you slice it up, you're going to need two innings of relief from each start.

There's no right or wrong answer here, like I keep saying, opinions and assholes, everybody has one.
When you get right down to it, it's what you set your criteria as.

I've been a student of Billy Beane and Bill James from the ground floor, a quarter of a century.
Back then us analytical geek nerds were ridiculed, "Math doesn't belong in baseball" and other things less flattering I heard, now analytics are considered sexy, albeit still nerdy.

I'm a strong believer in OBA, keep baserunners off the bases, the less chance the opposition has of scoring.
Conversely, ask yourself this, "What's the best chance of scoring run on offense"?
The answer is simple, get on base silly, you can't score a run if you don't get on base.
Would you rather have a solo HR, or would you rather hit a two run single with runners on second and third?

My go to metric is who allowed the fewer runs, and baserunners.
The answer is Pedro.

If one like Clemens for any reasonable reason, I won't debate you and call you a dumb ass, it's not who I am or what I do, after all, it's an opinion question and my criteria may be different then others, doesn't make me any better or worse than any other.

Final thought.
Ask yourself this, why do you think the 2002 Oakland A's made the postseason, and why do you think the 2015 KC Royals won the entire ball of wax?

**flyingillini** · 02-11-23, 11:53 AM

Clemens