Why doesn't SBR do Vegas Sportbooks Grades?

JDK192 · 02-06-07, 08:29 PM

I agree. Would be a great feature.

datek23 · 02-06-07, 08:35 PM

Maybe all the casino sportbooks in Nevada is a better choice, like cities of Henderson, Reno, and etc.

bigboydan · 02-06-07, 08:36 PM

I actually like the idea myself.

Now that the government is cracking the whip on the offshore industry. More people might just actually start flying out to Vegas like they did in the old days.

tacomax · 02-06-07, 08:39 PM

Fantastic idea, datek23.

If SBR are OK with covering my expenses then I'm personally willing to make a trip to Vegas and review all the casinos in terms of odds/prices offered, drink selections and quality of hookers.

jjgold · 02-06-07, 08:39 PM

They are all A's because they pay right after the game

Also regulated tightly

Lol to this thread

onlooker · 02-06-07, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by datek23

Maybe all the casino sportbooks in Nevada is a better choice, like cities of Henderson, Reno, and etc.

I think its a good idea. Dan and myself talked about it one time back a year or so ago.

Henderson is basicaly considered Vegas. Only ones really out here are Sunset Station, Green Valley Ranch, Jokers Wild, Fiesta of Henderson, and the small casinos that have Leroys in them.

bigboydan · 02-06-07, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by onlòóker

I think its a good idea. Dan and myself talked about it one time back a year or so ago.

I recall that convo looker. I remember we were going to tell Bill about it, but just never did. However, now that times have changed thanks to the U.S. government

maybe this is a good time to explore this idea a bit more.

datek23 · 02-06-07, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

They are all A's because they pay right after the game

Also regulated tightly

Lol to this thread

In my post that what I said Casinos will pay up.

Other factors like that most gamblers are eager to learn like:

Location inside Casino
Bet size limits
comps available
props
what sport available to bet
live betting options
etc

datek23 · 02-06-07, 09:22 PM

I guess I forgot about Mexico, Has anybody used these guys?

Caliente Sportsbook Offers Hidden Treasures For Bettors South Of The Border
by Jeremy Martin

Although sports bettors in Southern California and other U.S. towns that border Mexico are well aware of the Caliente Group and its expansive sportsbook offerings, much of America seems to be oblivious. There hasn't been much written on the private company that offers 60 sportsbooks to bettors, including many that are a short trek from cities such as San Diego; Tucson and Laredo, Texas. Caliente boasts 12 sportsbook locations in Tijuana alone, three of which accessible by a short walk across the San Ysidro border crossing.

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American business makes up 15 percent of Caliente's total sportsbook handle, and that number may be as high as 40 percent for the company's Tijuana locations. Nationals who frequent the sportsbooks call them "libro foraneo," the legal name for sports betting operations in Mexico, meaning "foreign book."

"We have a shopping center called Pueblo Amigo that is less than a 100 foot walk from the border," said Victor de la Fuente, wagering director for all of Caliente's sportsbooks. "We have different environments for customers who like horse racing or sports betting. The Race Club specializes in racing and the Sports Center is more for betting on sports. We also have the Centre Book, which is close to the border and a short walk from Pueblo Amigo."

Caliente sportsbook has a rich history, as it began operations in 1915 by offering betting on live thoroughbred racing to its customers. A dog track was opened in 1947 and the first libro foraneo began operations in 1948. In the early days, the sportsbook managers posted lines on chalkboards and monitored games via the radio. But presently, Caliente is fully state-of-the-art as it patterns itself after Las Vegas sportsbooks. In fact, top brass take frequent trips to Southern Nevada to get ideas on all of the new trends in the industry and Caliente sportsbook uses Las Vegas Sports Consultants for help on setting pointspreads and the Don Best line service to keep tabs on the mobility of the numbers across the globe. The business even offers a football contest in order to draw clients, much like the casinos in Las Vegas.

Although American business is no doubt crucial to his bottom line, de la Fuente insists that American sports are increasingly well liked among Mexican nationals.

"You name the sport, and it is very popular in Mexico," he said. "Almost every game is shown on commercial TV or cable. You can open up a Mexican newspaper, and out of probably 10 pages of the sports section, five or six will be (covering) U.S. sports. Everyone likes basketball, football, baseball and even ice hockey."

While Caliente sportsbook likes to pattern its books after Las Vegas establishments, there is one facet of the business that is decidedly different: its betting limits. Customers in Mexico can bet as much as $20,000 on NFL sides, which is higher than the majority of books in Nevada. Limits for NFL totals and college sides are $5,000 while college sides max out at $1,000. But de la Fuente, who profiles all his top customers, will raise his limits if he feels comfortable with a particular bettor. While Las Vegas receives tons of press when a sportsbook takes a $1 million bet on the Super Bowl, not many people know about the time Caliente had to pay out seven figures to a Mexican National who cashed in on a $50,000 futures bet on Winning Colors in the 1988 Kentucky Derby. Regardless of the big payout, de la Fuente said he would take the risk again if it came from the right bettor. "If we know the customer, he will probably get special treatment," he stated.

Despite the high limits Caliente sportsbook offers, the wagering director said that he doesn't do too much business with professional bettors. One of the reasons for the lack of sharp players in Mexico is because there's just one line at each of Caliente's 60 sportsbook locations. This reduces the option of shopping around for numbers as well as the opportunity to manipulate the numbers with a syndicate. Although the betting conglomerate does have some competition in Mexico, it still controls more than 60 percent of the marketplace, including most of the sportsbooks located at lucrative border locations and vacation travel destinations.

"There are several other companies in Mexico that have a license, but they are smaller" said de la Fuente. "There are probably, as the competition, 25 to 30 locations all through Mexico. It's very difficult to get licensed. We don't have too many (professionals). But we try and remain as open as possible (to them). I don't think anybody wants them. We don't limit them, but we are careful when they appear."

During football season, business doubles, according to the wagering director. And despite the interest in American sports from locals, there are a variety of Latin sports that are offered on the Caliente board. Mexican and South American soccer are especially popular with local bettors. The operation has a team of six that works on in-house lines for games that are not covered by consulting services in the U.S. For American sports, de le Fuente and his team determine their lines based on consultant recommendations in addition to customer betting patterns. For football, Caliente releases its lines on Tuesday morning in order to escape any early volatility of the numbers.

"You have to wait for the announcements of all the different injuries in order to be honest with the line," said de la Fuente. "We always say in our business that you have to be very serious about what you are doing. It doesn't matter if you come out with the first line if you are not taking limit bets. So we put (the line) out a little after that to be honest with our customers."

Posting solid numbers is so important to de la Fuente because his lines do not see much movement during the week, especially in football. It takes at least three limit bets to move the number, with no action on the other side, according to the wagering director.

Between parlays and straight bets, Caliente sportsbook holds six to 6.5 percent of its handle, states de la Fuente. Although his main goal is to get 50/50 action on games in order to ensure reduced liability of losses, he does admit that the business has a vested interest in 35 to 40 percent of all games.

Caliente offers a wide variety of parlay cards to its customers. In addition to football, cards are offered on soccer, basketball and baseball. Horse racing parlay cards are even in the works. As mentioned earlier, the books offer a Pigskin Football Contest, which has the look and feel of a Las Vegas contest. Weekly prizes are offered in addition to $25,000 for the season.

Americans who are worried about cashing their tickets can breathe easy. Caliente will mail checks to the U.S. for payouts under $1,000. Any larger amount must be cashed at one of the sportsbook locations in Mexico.

Although the company has an Internet presence, bettors from America and Canada are barred from using the service, according to de la Fuente. The online book takes only 25 percent of posted sportsbook limits. Eighty percent of its Internet business comes from Mexico, with the other 20 percent coming from South America, Asia and Europe.

The long-running company was taken over by George Hank, a tourism magnate, in the mid 1980s. Hank, the majority owner, and de la Fuente had been friends for more than 30 years. During a chance encounter in Mexico City in the early 1990s, the old friends met and de la Fuente was offered a job. The current wagering director, who was living in the city at the time, was fed up with the problems associated with living in such a big metropolitan area and was sick of his job in the trucking industry. He quickly took Hank up on his offer and moved to Tijuana, which is the company's home base.

"I liked sports very much, but I didn't have any experience with betting," added de la Fuente. "Part of our philosophy in the company is that you have to bet to learn, so I was required to (wager) part of my salary for the first two years to understand the mentality of the customers."

mvbski · 02-06-07, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by datek23

In my post that what I said Casinos will pay up.

Other factors like that most gamblers are eager to learn like:

Location inside Casino Does it really matter
Bet size limits

comps available Don't bother asking
props What are those

what sport available to bet Not many
live betting options

etc

jtmarti1 · 02-06-07, 11:14 PM

does anybody know Caliente Sportsbook Mexico locations? Or a website that points me to them? I live in Phoenix & this might be a close drive away, but I can't find anything on the web about these guys.

mvbski · 02-06-07, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by jtmarti1

does anybody know Caliente Sportsbook Mexico locations? Or a website that points me to them? I live in Phoenix & this might be a close drive away, but I can't find anything on the web about these guys.

http://www.caliente.com.mx/english/info.asp?display=books

datek23 · 02-07-07, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by jtmarti1

does anybody know Caliente Sportsbook Mexico locations? Or a website that points me to them? I live in Phoenix & this might be a close drive away, but I can't find anything on the web about these guys.

It is always nice to know that more options are available more than people think.

Also for live betting, I believe Palms casino experiment with it and not sure how popular it is.

datek23 · 02-07-07, 12:38 AM

Anyone has more info on live betting on Las Vegas Palms Casino?

Rapid Bet Live Goes Wireless in Las Vegas Palms Casino
Online Casino Conditions Staff
September 17, 2006

Progressive Gaming International in some ways is joining the likes of IGT, Cantor Fitzgerald Gaming and FortuNet, now that all four companies have been approved by the Nevada Gaming Control Board to supply wireless gaming devices to select casinos in Las Vegas. But what makes the wireless device developed by Progressive Gaming different than the rest of the pack is that rather than hosting a wireless platform for gambling at standard casino games, their mobile handheld device - a wireless version of their patented Rapid Bet Live - permits sports bettors to make wagers on a sporting event during the entire duration of the game.

The device is currently being tested in a mock field-trial at the Palms Hotel and Casino, having been approved for distribution by the Technology Division of the Nevada Gaming Board early this year. Now that the devices are installed and operating live, they are already being used on casino grounds via a local area network allowing bettors to place real money wagers much like that employed at online casinos and sportsbooks. However, the devices are strictly prohibited from going online, and can only be used within networked areas of the casino. Betting terminals located in the sportsbook itself will still allow punters to place bets through the wired Rapid Bet Live system.

CEO of Progressive Gaming, Russ McMeekin commented that the introduction of both the wired and wireless versions in a single casino sportsbook is a milestone for the company, and that he is confident casinos will benefit from the sophistication and simplicity offered to sports bettors. Executive VP of Sales and Marketing, Bob Parente chimed in a note of confidence in the wireless Rapid Bet Live, citing the positive feedback it has already received in jurisdictions around the world where casino gambling and sports betting is deemed legal.

RickySteve · 02-07-07, 02:21 PM

If I remember correctly, the Mexican govt. places an exorbitant betting tax on every wager.

jjgold · 02-07-07, 04:54 PM

Very small amount of posters that bet in Vegas post so it would be useless.

Arilou · 02-07-07, 07:32 PM

It wouldn't be worth using a lot of resources, but if this is information we already know and just need to write down, it would be worth it in my opinion for those times when we head out to Vegas.

SBR_John · 02-07-07, 08:02 PM

Its a great idea!

jjgold · 02-07-07, 08:10 PM

I do not like it, if your money is 100% safe and customer service all basically the same in Vegas I do not see any value in it.

Doug · 02-07-07, 10:49 PM

I kind of agree with JJ, everything is safe betting at a Vegas book, except maybe getting mugged on your way out. Your ticket there is better than at any of 5 or so top books left offshore.

For specific reports about limits and such, there are sites that have a lot of Vegans like Fezzik's place.

What would maybe help is if Vegas lines from arious hotels could be shown to those interested, but that may exist somewhere,too.

onlooker · 02-07-07, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Doug

What would maybe help is if Vegas lines from arious hotels could be shown to those interested, but that may exist somewhere,too.

I use the Vegas Insider delayed odds for a guide to what the books are at around the Vegas Valley.

Doug · 02-08-07, 12:16 AM

I wasn't a sportsbettor when I lived in Vegas ( basically early 90's). If I moved back there again, I'd have to say you couldn't shop too much, just look for your number and act ?

Its pretty much done now, you can't make any money anymore. First you lose Pinny, then even more importantly you know Neteller is going away, then Mansion.

Now you can't move money effectively, and if you somehow fund books beyond the big few left, you take too much risk of the book folding.

I look at it like this.... A book is kind of like a gas station... let us say your town had 100 gas stations, but now 80% of the cars are suddenly gone !... its no longer profitable to sell gasoline, so many gas stations will have to close.Your merchandise is no longer in demand.

The demand is still there for a book, but it's too hard to operate, many veteran players have just quit, I'm close to quitting myself.

onlooker · 02-08-07, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Doug

I wasn't a sportsbettor when I lived in Vegas ( basically early 90's). If I moved back there again, I'd have to say you couldn't shop too much, just look for your number and act ?

Depending on the time of day, you can pick up a extra .5 to 1 point from book to book. Or 10 to 20 cents on the money lines, sometimes more. Like the Hilton has 10 cent puck lines. That makes a difference.

Like todays Memphis/Dallas game, only books that carried the ML from what I know was the Hilton (+1100/-1500) and Caesars group (+1000/-1500). The others didnt put it out. I think most books spread cut off for ML's are 10-12. The Hilton dont seem to have a cut off.

Ive only really started getting back to betting in the books here since the whole US shake down. Ive been so spoiled sitting at home clicking away on the computer.

Doug · 02-08-07, 01:21 AM

I don't know how I could work that shit if I was back in Vegas !

Say I want a basketball team for $500 and can get down, ElCortez has +2.5, I go west to Glittergulch, meanwhile it steams, Nugget,Shoe,Plaza... have +2, I go back to Cortez, by then it's +1.5, then what do I do ?

onlooker · 02-08-07, 01:28 AM

I just usually stick to a few books close to me, and act on a game. Im not one for traveling the valley with all the traffic these days. I was just pointing out the lines do vary from book to book and some are better money line books.

You cant steam chase out here. If your doing it on your own.

Doug · 02-08-07, 02:06 AM

That's what I mean... +2.5 at EC, I goto GN, see a +2, go back to EC, it +1.5.. do I go back to GN for +2 ?

onlooker · 02-08-07, 02:20 AM

Id probably just bet the game at the first place I was at. Again, Im not one to travel everywhere chasing line movements, when I dont know what they will be when I get there.

Ive had lines change while waiting in line, and almost miss a game because someone in front of me dont know what 6 teams he wants for his parlay. Sometimes you just have to settle with the line you get at the time you get to the window and read off the rotation number.

Arilou · 02-08-07, 09:03 AM

No one doubts that the Vegas books will pay if you get your bet in, but that leaves many questions. What are their limits? How do they react if you show them sharp action, of various types? How long is the wait in line? How sharp are their lines, and do they do any discount wagering? Live betting? How far away do you have to be before you can get internet access or safely talk on the phone? These are all important questions.

Two years ago I was in town for the Super Bowl, and line shopping was definitely possible but that's a special case where you know the line will move slowly or not at all. That's not normally the case. But the few times I had someone who happened to be in a casino, I could call them up, say "This game just steamed, take -7 or better" and have a reasonable success rate for a grand or so. They are slow to react, because they don't have the same liability in that scenario.

pags11 · 02-09-07, 04:52 AM

I can rate a lot of the Reno books...

datek23 · 02-09-07, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by pags11

I can rate a lot of the Reno books...

Thats a good idea, Reno

homedog · 02-10-07, 12:29 AM

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How did Bodog get into this conversation

datek23 · 02-10-07, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by homedog

How did Bodog get into this conversation

It was a copy and paste of a whole article and in the middle was some link with Bodog which i am not wasting my time to delete every advertisent which comes with these articles.