Very interesting 2022 Baseball HOF vote ballot

[Doublethink]

I thought the Babe was already in?

[Doublethink]

There can't be a Hall of Fame without the homerun leader in it. It would just be a building.

I thought the Babe was already in?

[TommieGunshot]

Can someone explain what the hell wins above replacement is about?

If a team lost didn't have that player and instead had to go out and get the best minor leaguer they could find, how many fewer wins would they have. It is a great starting place for evaluating players

[TommieGunshot]

Craig Nettles WAR 67.9 Steve Garvey 38.1. Does that make him twice as good? That's what I don't understand about it.

Check out wins above average. Nettles wins above was 32 and Garvey's was 7. It doesn't make Nettles four or five times as good, it makes him 25 wins better.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Craig Nettles WAR 67.9 Steve Garvey 38.1. Does that make him twice as good? That's what I don't understand about it.

Not quite double. But, yes, Nettles is rated about 70% better on the WAR scale.

Most statisticians from the Bill James camp buy into the WAR rating. It's not perfect but it's an UN-BIASED mechanical rating. Like I said, as close as possible, it's tied to the value of his team winning.

As a starting point, consider what I said about 1b vs 3b. There are a lot of 1b that produce offensively. Not nearly as many 3b (on a relative basis).

If I could describe Nettles' value in a few lines:
*One of the better Defensive third-basemen in the L50 years. Brooks Robinson would surely be rated better (defensively)...but how many more? I think Nettles is on the short list.
*Nettles did hit 390 Home Runs. Doesn't approach the historic marker of 500. When you put it in the context of 3b being a tough position, that's a good stat.
...Nettles at least is worthy of consideration. I think most sabermetricians would agree w/ that.

Re: Garvey, think about what I said about position comparison. It's MUCH easier to find a 1st baseman who can produce decent offensive numbers. And it's not THAT hard to play a decent 1st base (defensively).

You mentioned the historic stats that include Batting Average. Before 2000, On-base % wasn't given as much consideration. But OBA correlates tightly to run production. That's where Garvey comes up short. .329 OBA 1st-basemen are not great run-producers.

[The Kraken]

Id put Mark Grace in over Don Mattingly

EZ

[Doublethink]

OK so Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds had the highest WAR in MLB history at 162.7. That means during their career they were worth 162.7 more wins vs. anybody who replaced them?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

OK so Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds had the highest WAR in MLB history at 162.7. That means during their career they were worth 162.7 more wins vs. anybody who replaced them?

Yes. Read here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wins_Above_Replacement

A player's WAR value is claimed to be the number of additional wins his team has achieved above the number of expected team wins if that player were substituted with a replacement-level player: a player who may be added to the team for minimal cost and effort.

^{My take on the above is that the average replacement-level player would be a Fringe Major-leaguer. So, yes, over the course of his career Ruth's stats would imply that he contributed to an extra 163 wins (compared to a Fringer Major-leaguer occupying Ruth's position).}

[Doublethink]

I'm surprised Rickey Henderson is #14 WAR in MLB history, but hey averaging 74 SB and 121 runs over 25 yrs. is not too shabby.

[Doublethink]

So here we go with WAR definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wins_Above_Replacement

[Chi_archie]

I'm surprised Rickey Henderson is #14 WAR in MLB history, but hey averaging 74 SB and 121 runs over 25 yrs. is not too shabby.

well yeah

he's all time leader in runs scored.

pretty important stat

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I'm surprised Rickey Henderson is #14 WAR in MLB history, but hey averaging 74 SB and 121 runs over 25 yrs. is not too shabby.

You're surprised that he's that HIGH? Simply one of the most-productive offensive players in L40 years.

Could go on and on about Rickey's stats. If run-production is the name of the game, he has to be on the short-list:
#1 all-time in Runs
#2 all-time in Walks
...If you add his Hits to his Walks, that's > 5200x on Base.

[Doublethink]

Now lets go with pitchers WAR. Cy Young 165.6, Walter Johnson 152.1, Roger Clemens138.7, Kid Nichols 116.7, Pete Alexanders 116, Lefty Grove 113.3, Tom Seaver 106.1, Greg Maddux 104.8, Randy Johnson 103.5, Christy Matthewson 100.4.

[Chi_archie]

no Hoss Radbourne?

[Doublethink]

I just went by anybody over..

100 WAR for pitchers.

[Chi_archie]

no Hoss Radbourne?

oh his career was kind of short after his 60 win, 678 inning 19 WAR season

didn't have the longevity

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/radboch01.shtml

[Doublethink]

no Hoss Radbourne?

The guy won 60 games in 1884. Sign him up.

[teecee]

The big question is does Bonds make it on his last year on the HOF ballot along with several others.

If Bonds does not make it, you might as well close that bitch down. He deserves to be in. He entertained all of us and we should be thankful we got to watch him.

[teecee]

I thought the Babe was already in?

Let's get real